Are you kidding me?

[Vivian]

New York top court rejects right to doctor-assisted suicide

New York's highest court on Thursday ruled that doctor-assisted suicide is illegal in the state, rejecting a lawsuit claiming that mentally competent, terminally ill patients have a right to have their doctors prescribe lethal drugs.

www.reuters.com

Why shouldn't physically or mentally ill people (people who won't get better no matter what medication they take) be allowed to die? Like what the fuck? I bet the people who rejected the suit don't have any clue what it's like to live in pain.

 

[NextSummer]

It's so weird that they are not allowed to get medication "leading to death" if you think about how much we are surrounded by objects with which we could kill ourselves.

 

[Youthanasia]

I mean i always admired usa for valuing individual freedoms but as a somewhat conservative outsider i must say this is a disappointment

 

[gingerplum]

I mean i always admired usa for valuing individual freedoms but as a somewhat conservative outsider i must say this is a disappointment

We're still an overwhelmingly religious country, and those religious dogmas are still, unfortunately, affecting public policy and law.

 

[Jolene40]

They need a good dose of motor neuron disease or terminal agonising cancer in my view. And i wholeheartedly mean that

 

[EddieAllenPoe]

Hmm. Good question. I mean that literally. Not because I'm mad I can't get what I want. But because I want to know what can actually be true. Consider your question a little differently. "Why shouldn't a person commit suicide if it's the rational choice?" Specifically, what exactly about suicide could ever be "rational"?

Again, I mean that literally. Play the devil's advocate with me. I'm not wondering because I can't understand WHY a person would WANT to be able to. But how can it be logical by itself? I think I remember reading your post yesterday about a psych professor being worried you were "suicidal and depressed". You claimed you weren't depressed. You were only suicidal. That was interesting. I almost agreed with you because I have experienced wanting suicide without it seeming like I was depressed. It definitely seemed like it was purely rational... Because, afterall, all my problems would be gone.

But wait... How is that" pure" logic? Does "pure logic" alone exist? I think I remember one time reading through a mathematical proof for 2 + 2 equaling 5. It actually seemed very logical. The conclusion obviously seemed false. I couldn't argue with the logic though. How did I really know it should be 4? That's probably a poor example because you would be hard pressed to convince most people 2 + 2 = 5. I'm definitely not an expert in mathematics. I don't doubt it is a possible proof, however. There is something about the belief in "pure logic " that seems hollow and empty. I'm not convinced it's possible in human brains. Especially when you consider something such as the "Liar's Paradox".

To summarize the Liar's Paradox, I could write on a sign: "This statement is false". It's a truth claim. But how can it be true? It says it is false. Who could possibly determine the truth in this situation? It's what you would call a paradox. That is actually a foundational problem in ALL of science and mathematics. Somebody always has to make a claim about a truth. Unfortunately, truth literally can not "stand on it's own two feet". It always requires an interpreter.

As a person who has wanted to commit suicide, I still am able to question how some Dutch doctors feel you shouldn't be "too hesitant" to euthanize individuals with mental illness. Many people feel it is a legitimate human right. I'm not here to argue with anyone. I'm literally thinking... Who are they to say? How could you know? What makes something rational or logical? It would seem you would actually have to have developed feelings about a subject. I suppose that the dutch doctor's may have developed this opinion based on a Darwinian view that allowing suicide helps human evolution. I don't actually know. I suspect this reasoning could be flawed, however. They could be wrong. Very wrong. It does, afterall, fly in the face of conventional wisdom. They may be doing the equivalent of proving 2 + 2 equals 5. It may actually be GOOD or TRUTHFUL for most people to oppose suicide. How does a person find out?

 

[Funkbunny]

Not really a surprise though is it with the big pharm based in NY.

 

[gingerplum]

Hmm. Good question. I mean that literally. Not because I'm mad I can't get what I want. But because I want to know what can actually be true. Consider your question a little differently. "Why shouldn't a person commit suicide if it's the rational choice?" Specifically, what exactly about suicide could ever be "rational"?

Again, I mean that literally. Play the devil's advocate with me. I'm not wondering because I can't understand WHY a person would WANT to be able to. But how can it be logical by itself? I think I remember reading your post yesterday about a psych professor being worried you were "suicidal and depressed". You claimed you weren't depressed. You were only suicidal. That was interesting. I almost agreed with you because I have experienced wanting suicide without it seeming like I was depressed. It definitely seemed like it was purely rational... Because, afterall, all my problems would be gone.

But wait... How is that" pure" logic? Does "pure logic" alone exist? I think I remember one time reading through a mathematical proof for 2 + 2 equaling 5. It actually seemed very logical. The conclusion obviously seemed false. I couldn't argue with the logic though. How did I really know it should be 4? That's probably a poor example because you would be hard pressed to convince most people 2 + 2 = 5. I'm definitely not an expert in mathematics. I don't doubt it is a possible proof, however. There is something about the belief in "pure logic " that seems hollow and empty. I'm not convinced it's possible in human brains. Especially when you consider something such as the "Liar's Paradox".

To summarize the Liar's Paradox, I could write on a sign: "This statement is false". It's a truth claim. But how can it be true? It says it is false. Who could possibly determine the truth in this situation? It's what you would call a paradox. That is actually a foundational problem in ALL of science and mathematics. Somebody always has to make a claim about a truth. Unfortunately, truth literally can not "stand on it's own two feet". It always requires an interpreter.

As a person who has wanted to commit suicide, I still am able to question how some Dutch doctors feel you shouldn't be "too hesitant" to euthanize individuals with mental illness. Many people feel it is a legitimate human right. I'm not here to argue with anyone. I'm literally thinking... Who are they to say? How could you know? What makes something rational or logical? It would seem you would actually have to have developed feelings about a subject. I suppose that the dutch doctor's may have developed this opinion based on a Darwinian view that allowing suicide helps human evolution. I don't actually know. I suspect this reasoning could be flawed, however. In ways similar to proving 2 + 2 equals 5. It may actually be GOOD or TRUTHFUL for most people to oppose suicide. But how would you know?

Ah, the liar's paradox. Not as overused as Occam's Razor, and less fully understood than Schrodinger's Cat. Probably not as sexy as George Hamilton's Tanning Bed.

 

[marcusuk63]

They would allow it if you could get crude oil out of a corpse !

 

[RM5998]

Hmm. Good question. I mean that literally. Not because I'm mad I can't get what I want. But because I want to know what can actually be true. Consider your question a little differently. "Why shouldn't a person commit suicide if it's the rational choice?" Specifically, what exactly about suicide could ever be "rational"?

Again, I mean that literally. Play the devil's advocate with me. I'm not wondering because I can't understand WHY a person would WANT to be able to. But how can it be logical by itself? I think I remember reading your post yesterday about a psych professor being worried you were "suicidal and depressed". You claimed you weren't depressed. You were only suicidal. That was interesting. I almost agreed with you because I have experienced wanting suicide without it seeming like I was depressed. It definitely seemed like it was purely rational... Because, afterall, all my problems would be gone.

But wait... How is that" pure" logic? Does "pure logic" alone exist? I think I remember one time reading through a mathematical proof for 2 + 2 equaling 5. It actually seemed very logical. The conclusion obviously seemed false. I couldn't argue with the logic though. How did I really know it should be 4? That's probably a poor example because you would be hard pressed to convince most people 2 + 2 = 5. I'm definitely not an expert in mathematics. I don't doubt it is a possible proof, however. There is something about the belief in "pure logic " that seems hollow and empty. I'm not convinced it's possible in human brains. Especially when you consider something such as the "Liar's Paradox".

To summarize the Liar's Paradox, I could write on a sign: "This statement is false". It's a truth claim. But how can it be true? It says it is false. Who could possibly determine the truth in this situation? It's what you would call a paradox. That is actually a foundational problem in ALL of science and mathematics. Somebody always has to make a claim about a truth. Unfortunately, truth literally can not "stand on it's own two feet". It always requires an interpreter.

As a person who has wanted to commit suicide, I still am able to question how some Dutch doctors feel you shouldn't be "too hesitant" to euthanize individuals with mental illness. Many people feel it is a legitimate human right. I'm not here to argue with anyone. I'm literally thinking... Who are they to say? How could you know? What makes something rational or logical? It would seem you would actually have to have developed feelings about a subject. I suppose that the dutch doctor's may have developed this opinion based on a Darwinian view that allowing suicide helps human evolution. I don't actually know. I suspect this reasoning could be flawed, however. They could be wrong. Very wrong. It does, afterall, fly in the face of conventional wisdom. They may be doing the equivalent of proving 2 + 2 equals 5. It may actually be GOOD or TRUTHFUL for most people to oppose suicide. How does a person find out?

I think that part of the issue here is the fact that the overwhelming majority of people who get to have the last word on someone's life are alive and want to remain that way. Posterity gets to decide whether we are right or wrong, and suicidal people are the anomaly here. And the majority has decided that it wants to believe that suicide is wrong, for whatever reason it deems appropriate (some excellent reason, no doubt, but it's still incomprehensible to me).

 

[Divine Trinity]

Hmm. Good question. I mean that literally. Not because I'm mad I can't get what I want. But because I want to know what can actually be true. Consider your question a little differently. "Why shouldn't a person commit suicide if it's the rational choice?" Specifically, what exactly about suicide could ever be "rational"?

Again, I mean that literally. Play the devil's advocate with me. I'm not wondering because I can't understand WHY a person would WANT to be able to. But how can it be logical by itself? I think I remember reading your post yesterday about a psych professor being worried you were "suicidal and depressed". You claimed you weren't depressed. You were only suicidal. That was interesting. I almost agreed with you because I have experienced wanting suicide without it seeming like I was depressed. It definitely seemed like it was purely rational... Because, afterall, all my problems would be gone.

But wait... How is that" pure" logic? Does "pure logic" alone exist? I think I remember one time reading through a mathematical proof for 2 + 2 equaling 5. It actually seemed very logical. The conclusion obviously seemed false. I couldn't argue with the logic though. How did I really know it should be 4? That's probably a poor example because you would be hard pressed to convince most people 2 + 2 = 5. I'm definitely not an expert in mathematics. I don't doubt it is a possible proof, however. There is something about the belief in "pure logic " that seems hollow and empty. I'm not convinced it's possible in human brains. Especially when you consider something such as the "Liar's Paradox".

To summarize the Liar's Paradox, I could write on a sign: "This statement is false". It's a truth claim. But how can it be true? It says it is false. Who could possibly determine the truth in this situation? It's what you would call a paradox. That is actually a foundational problem in ALL of science and mathematics. Somebody always has to make a claim about a truth. Unfortunately, truth literally can not "stand on it's own two feet". It always requires an interpreter.

As a person who has wanted to commit suicide, I still am able to question how some Dutch doctors feel you shouldn't be "too hesitant" to euthanize individuals with mental illness. Many people feel it is a legitimate human right. I'm not here to argue with anyone. I'm literally thinking... Who are they to say? How could you know? What makes something rational or logical? It would seem you would actually have to have developed feelings about a subject. I suppose that the dutch doctor's may have developed this opinion based on a Darwinian view that allowing suicide helps human evolution. I don't actually know. I suspect this reasoning could be flawed, however. They could be wrong. Very wrong. It does, afterall, fly in the face of conventional wisdom. They may be doing the equivalent of proving 2 + 2 equals 5. It may actually be GOOD or TRUTHFUL for most people to oppose suicide. How does a person find out?

If there's 1 adult and 2 children with only a single serving of food left to eat, it's 'rational' for the adult to attack the kids and take the food. However, society at least claims that's unacceptable behavior.

Nobody cares about the rationality of suicide, they only care if they feel it's the right thing to do. Current society doesn't find suicide acceptable because it interferes with vested interest, ie; milking every penny out of you then leaving the remains to rot.

 

[TAW122]

We're still an overwhelmingly religious country, and those religious dogmas are still, unfortunately, affecting public policy and law.

Yeah and I'm afraid it will be many decades before the non-religious overtake the religious in popularity. I'm thinking as more people become woke and more educated, then there will be more people willing to support assisted suicide and euthanasia. Even then, there are still holdover states in the Bible belt (imagine if the federal government legalized and standardized assisted suicide, there are still states that will forbid it in their own states) that will still forbid assisted suicide, but then those people have hope to be able to migrate to the states that allow it.

Nobody cares about the rationality of suicide, they only care if they feel it's the right thing to do. Current society doesn't find suicide acceptable because it interferes with vested interest, ie; milking every penny out of you then leaving the remains to rot.

That sums up what the current society believes in, very accurate. As for the last part, well I doubt they can milk much off of the people who don't pay into the system or take more than they contribute, like people who collect welfare and don't work, or are NEET unless I'm wrong.

 

[lost_soul83]

New York top court rejects right to doctor-assisted suicide

New York's highest court on Thursday ruled that doctor-assisted suicide is illegal in the state, rejecting a lawsuit claiming that mentally competent, terminally ill patients have a right to have their doctors prescribe lethal drugs.

www.reuters.com

Why shouldn't physically or mentally ill people (people who won't get better no matter what medication they take) be allowed to die? Like what the fuck? I bet the people who rejected the suit don't have any clue what it's like to live in pain.

Agreed. If those judges had to live one day in any of our shoes, they'd change that law real quick. And that goes for mentally ill people as well, not just the terminally, physically ill. People that have treatment-resistant mental illnesses should have the right to die with dignity, and a doctor's help.

 

[Jolene40]

Agreed. If those judges had to live one day in any of our shoes, they'd change that law real quick. And that goes for mentally ill people as well, not just the terminally, physically ill. People that have treatment-resistant mental illnesses should have the right to die with dignity, and a doctor's help.

Im with you. We will add unrelenting mind crushing depression, anxiety and psychosis to their agonising terminal cancer and then after 2 weeks ask them again...

 

[Divine Trinity]

Yeah and I'm afraid it will be many decades before the non-religious overtake the religious in popularity. I'm thinking as more people become woke and more educated, then there will be more people willing to support assisted suicide and euthanasia. Even then, there are still holdover states in the Bible belt (imagine if the federal government legalized and standardized assisted suicide, there are still states that will forbid it in their own states) that will still forbid assisted suicide, but then those people have hope to be able to migrate to the states that allow it.


That sums up what the current society believes in, very accurate. As for the last part, well I doubt they can milk much off of the people who don't pay into the system or take more than they contribute, like people who collect welfare and don't work, or are NEET unless I'm wrong.

You're more profitable to the state in jail/prison than school, low wage job, homeless or a rehab program.

 

[I'm exhausted]

I

Agreed. If those judges had to live one day in any of our shoes, they'd change that law real quick. And that goes for mentally ill people as well, not just the terminally, physically ill. People that have treatment-resistant mental illnesses should have the right to die with dignity, and a doctor's help.

I agree as well. I'm suffering from several mental illnesses that I've been fighting to get better for over five years. Insurance won't help. My advocates can't help. Organizations turn their back on me. Hospitals and doctors have ridiculed me, mocked me, threatened me and made me cry to a point where I've choked myself in the hospital. I'm traumatized by them. Have nowhere safe. Have no money and homeless. I'm disabled and lost my job because of it. Meds didn't help. Some therapies didn't help. Tried self help. The treatment that works the best and that I need is extremely expensive. I've lived through many different assaults, yes sexual ones, experienced near death for that matter. And yet people say it's selfish to die and seek help but the people who say that can't help me and people who can turn me away because I have no money. I can't get a loan. So how is living with suffering and knowing I can't get better because the system is so flawed is a humane thing? I'm selfish for causing pain to others if I die? Well where are they to help me? And it's okay for me to live in pain as long as I don't cause pain to others? Now who's the selfish one?

 

[Alec]

I

I agree as well. I'm suffering from several mental illnesses that I've been fighting to get better for over five years. Insurance won't help. My advocates can't help. Organizations turn their back on me. Hospitals and doctors have ridiculed me, mocked me, threatened me and made me cry to a point where I've choked myself in the hospital. I'm traumatized by them. Have nowhere safe. Have no money and homeless. I'm disabled and lost my job because of it. Meds didn't help. Some therapies didn't help. Tried self help. The treatment that works the best and that I need is extremely expensive. I've lived through many different assaults, yes sexual ones, experienced near death for that matter. And yet people say it's selfish to die and seek help but the people who say that can't help me and people who can turn me away because I have no money. I can't get a loan. So how is living with suffering and knowing I can't get better because the system is so flawed is a humane thing? I'm selfish for causing pain to others if I die? Well where are they to help me? And it's okay for me to live in pain as long as I don't cause pain to others? Now who's the selfish one?

They are, they are selfish, all of them are. But they call us selfish because it's easier for them to cope with the such a thing as suicide even existing. I'm so sorry you went through so much pain!! I hope you find what you are looking for soon and don't think about the assholes even for one second, they are the selfish ones not to mention ignorant.

 

[Broken Chimera]

I

I agree as well. I'm suffering from several mental illnesses that I've been fighting to get better for over five years. Insurance won't help. My advocates can't help. Organizations turn their back on me. Hospitals and doctors have ridiculed me, mocked me, threatened me and made me cry to a point where I've choked myself in the hospital. I'm traumatized by them. Have nowhere safe. Have no money and homeless. I'm disabled and lost my job because of it. Meds didn't help. Some therapies didn't help. Tried self help. The treatment that works the best and that I need is extremely expensive. I've lived through many different assaults, yes sexual ones, experienced near death for that matter. And yet people say it's selfish to die and seek help but the people who say that can't help me and people who can turn me away because I have no money. I can't get a loan. So how is living with suffering and knowing I can't get better because the system is so flawed is a humane thing? I'm selfish for causing pain to others if I die? Well where are they to help me? And it's okay for me to live in pain as long as I don't cause pain to others? Now who's the selfish one?

It's simple. You're selfish for not being a willing target for others abuse. You're selfish for wanting the pain to end, because who would they abuse if you weren't around? I wish the best for you and however it happens keep those willfully ignorant idiots away from you. They don't care about you, they only care about themselves and their feelings. I'm sorry you went through all of that.

 

[MAIO]

New York top court rejects right to doctor-assisted suicide

New York's highest court on Thursday ruled that doctor-assisted suicide is illegal in the state, rejecting a lawsuit claiming that mentally competent, terminally ill patients have a right to have their doctors prescribe lethal drugs.

www.reuters.com

Why shouldn't physically or mentally ill people (people who won't get better no matter what medication they take) be allowed to die? Like what the fuck? I bet the people who rejected the suit don't have any clue what it's like to live in pain.

Pro-life stance on suicide is generally on shaky ground, poorly thought out. The arguments almost always assume the assumption life is superior to death and always without proving the assumption. It's much more than that though. Since we have been children we have it rubbed into is in every conceivable way life is the best thing ever death is the worst thing ever. Challenging this believe is a direct challenge to one of the foundations of their world view. Religion is self can be argued to act as a denial of death more so than what they claim to believe. If you believe you go to eternal paradise after you die, your loved ones go to eternal paradise after you die, you would look forward to death and it would be selfish for you to not be happy for loved ones when they die, as they would be in a far better place. Instead religious people resist death as much as possible, try to live until the last possible second, argue they can't comprehend why someone would want to choose death over life and so on. All of this is inconsistent with the view that you go to eternal paradise after death. Religious people do not live their life that way, do not act like they believe they are going to eternal paradise, etc.