Venting Are you 100% pro-choice towards suicide?

[FuneralCry]

I find the whole concept of anti-suicide to be something so inhumane, being against suicide in any way just shows a lack of compassion as after all if somebody else wishes to cease existing that's their decision, only they are the ones trapped with themselves, it's their existence and it would be inhumane to suggest one must suffer when they wish for freedom.

I'm against any seletive pro-choice views such as how people wish to place age limits on the right to die as such a thing is a basic human right, not a privilege only reserved for those who meet a criteria as without the right to cease existing, existence would be no different to imprisonment and slavery.

And anyway it isn't like existence is something so good and beneficial in the first place instead existence just causes harm, to me it could never be desirable having the ability to suffer endlessly so it could never be justified wishing to trap one in this harmful existence where they are a slave to their suffering in this world filled with senseless cruelty and agony.

It's always valid not wanting to suffer anymore and preferring peace instead, it's a personal choice that should be respected and should never need to be justified, only death could ever bring relief for me and my hatred towards existence is just having awareness.

Existence is so replusive and I view it as criminal burdening one with the ability to exist so one should be able to escape from all the harm exactly when they wish to, the right to die is compassionate which is why I could never not be 100% pro-choice, suicide could never be what is "wrong" as after all, all the problems started when existence did.

 

[GreenTree]

Got to say when I was healthy I was against suicide as I thought recovery was possible. I think 99% of the population think that way. So sadly its going to be hard to ever legalise euthanasia. Of course now I'm suicidal and in terrible mental agony I wish it was legal and easy to do. Family would never accept it or understand the agony we're in.

 

[Homo erectus]

I think a real choice is an informed choice. Asking an ignorant person to choose will just produce a random outcome. It's a matter of where to draw this line. People need to have some life experience to make informed decision about death.

Confucius: If we don't know life, how can we know death?

 

[Praestat_Mori]

I'm 100% pro-choice! Each personal reason someone may have to decide for suicide is valid.

 

[tiyijinn]

I think a real choice is an informed choice. Asking an ignorant person to choose will just produce a random outcome. It's a matter of where to draw this line. People need to have some life experience to make informed decision about death.

Confucius: If we don't know life, how can we know death?

Confucius's stuff sounds vaguely wise, but the saying is pretty stupid. Death is a lot simpler than life.

 

[ThisUnrest]

Completely. It should be open to any adult who wants it. Similarly, no one should be compelled to accept an early departure if it's not what they've asked for. It's horrific the way that exit drugs have become so restricted. Hoping that in the coming years, people will become more civilized about honoring personal choice.

 

[Homo erectus]

Confucius's stuff sounds vaguely wise, but the saying is pretty stupid. Death is a lot simpler than life.

Yes, I suppose whoever actively seek death have sufficient reason/experience to support their decisions.

 

[SpiderLink]

It really depends in my opinion, it's unfortunate but understandable.

 

[FeyB]

Im just quoting what I studied at school, don't take it as my opinion in any way.
The problem with the choice about suicide is the fact that most people who want to cbt, would be understood and categorized form the society as those who are incapable of making an informated impartial choice about their life cause they are seen as too much under influence of their condition.
This, in the end, is the most common rethoric answer used to decide if the person has the ability to willingly ctb.
Another important factor is how can be commonly agreed: those who suffer from the outside with illnesses that can be understood and communicate to other, makes to the other possible to relate (not fully but a little more) insted of most of mental ilnesses or neurodivergency which are very hard to comprehend for someone not in that condition. By that standard, they will decide for others with a patronising manner as they think they know what's the best for others.

 

[tiyijinn]

Completely. It should be open to any adult who wants it. Similarly, no one should be compelled to accept an early departure if it's not what they've asked for. It's horrific the way that exit drugs have become so restricted. Hoping that in the coming years, people will become more civilized about honoring personal choice.

OP is specifically having trouble with the "adult" part, I think. They are saying that it should be open to everyone, not just adults.

If I look at it a certain way, why should the suffering of life be the default? Why should anyone be forced to suffer when they want to leave?

 

[ThisUnrest]

OP is specifically having trouble with the "adult" part, I think. They are saying that it should be open to everyone, not just adults.

If I look at it a certain way, why should the suffering of life be the default? Why should anyone be forced to suffer when they want to leave?

Good point.

 

[tabby]

I want to be 100% so badly, but I'm too selfish. I'm my silly mind I am pro-choice for everyone besides the people I love, which is obviously unfair considering I myself am actively seeking out methods of ending my own life.

 

[020x]

I support the choice of every individual, all of us are the same human being and we are independent from each other. We are not the god to choose for other people.

One thing most don't understand is that the reason why so many people are anti-suicide is because humans have no empathy towards each other by nature, we cannot feel each other's pain if we ourselves haven't experienced the same pain and they just don't understand that it's better for us if we would've ended it all.

Majority always win. We will never get the right for euthanasia. That's just how this existence is, unfortunately. Even if you want to die, your body doesn't want to, it will do everything to save you. We are burdened here.

 

[FeyB]

OP is specifically having trouble with the "adult" part, I think. They are saying that it should be open to everyone, not just adults.

If I look at it a certain way, why should the suffering of life be the default? Why should anyone be forced to suffer when they want to leave?

I can't fully speak about the scientifi stuff but I can speak about the Philosophy behind it.
The problem with informated choice is that, form a philosofical standpoint, the brain HAS to be fully developed to be able to comprehend the magnitude of someone choices.
This would make children and those who suffer brain damage or are under the influence of drugs or mental illnesses unable to understand fully the concequences of their actions and by that they are removed from society from their free will.
The category of people in bold are identified as the ones who are UNABLE to make informated choices.
Of course this has some problems, especially regarding people who wants to ctb but their legal guardian doesn't want them to. And this dilemma is being actively discuss within ethical committee.
I personally tried in my class to bring foward some of ideals that this forum tries to put foward as, a lot of them, are similar to my own but, as you probably expected, they were seen as "against common will" and I was depicted as the one who always brings foward a different point of view.
I would really like this conversation to be brought foward into mass media instead of the classical circle jerk made by the majority of retrograds people that thinks that ideals like freedom of cbt is inhuman.
Again, just to clarify, the points i brought foward are from the books I studied in uni and how this problem has been approached from the contemporary philosophy and in no way they represent my point of view
If you are intrested in continue the research you can either PM me or look it up for yourself especially about holland which there ahs been a lot of cases about legal cbt even with perople under the age of 18.
You might find a new interest and for the young of you I highly suggest to continue your studies in philosophy or psychology where topics that can be found on this site are actively discussed not just for leisure but even for a possible job in academics

 

[Ligottian]

Yes.

 

[Thanatos]

Yes, I believe in voluntarism and am pro choice 100%.

 

[FeyB]

Majority always win. We will never get the right for euthanasia. That's just how this existence is, unfortunately. Even if you want to die, your body doesn't want to, it will do everything to save you. We are burdened here.

Don't be so hopeless, it's hard but in my country Italy we are moving foward, referendum about it with lot of signatures popped up and some rapresentatives like Marco Cappato are starting to make people aware of the problem.
Altough Italy is a very catholic state, most of italians are old people and I hear them, even within my family, asking to be put to rest if their age brings foward illnesses that makes them suffer.
Maybe I'm too optimistic but I wish we might be albe to do it moving foward

 

[020x]

Don't be so hopeless, it's hard but in my country Italy we are moving foward, referendum about it with lot of signatures popped up and some rapresentatives like Marco Cappato are starting to make people aware of the problem.
Altough Italy is a very catholic state, most of italians are old people and I hear them, even within my family, asking to be put to rest if their age brings foward illnesses that makes them suffer.
Maybe I'm too optimistic but I wish we might be albe to do it moving foward

Don't think any family would want there to be a law where everyone has the right to leave this world. Including their own children, even if would be limited to 18+ people, it's still impossible to make it happen.

Not to mention the economic system will collapse immediately as people would have an easy way out from all their problems. I can imagine many young people who are needed in the future would be the first ones who would leave.

I'm not hopeless, I just know for a fact that it will never be allowed for everyone. However, maybe if future generations will be more emphatic unlike the current adults.. Then, realistically, I think they could legalise it for the people who just can't be happy anymore, clinically, or those that suffer from chronic mental/physical illnesses and can't bare their daily life. There will definitely be limits.

Of course I personally think everyone deserves it, but I know that the majority don't.

 

[FeyB]

Don't think any family would want there to be a law where everyone has the right to leave this world. Including their own children, even if would be limited to 18+ people, it's still impossible to make it happen.

Not to mention the economic system will collapse immediately as people would have an easy way out from all their problems. I can imagine many young people who are needed in the future would be the majority who would leave first.

I'm not hopeless, I just know for a fact that it will never be allowed for everyone. However, maybe if future generations will be more emphatic unlike the current adults.. Then, realistically, I think they could legalise it for the people who just can't be happy anymore, clinically, or those that suffer from chronic mental/physical illnesses and can't bare their daily life. There will definitely be limits.

Of course I personally think everyone deserves it, but I know that the majority don't.

1st of all ye, that's still a lot of opposition about it.
But most importantly, there a huge difference between being able and the people who would actually do it. I think even though it's legal, just a little bit pf people would actually do it or at least that's the case I've studied about holland.
Suicide isn't an easy way out of the problems, it's an hard choice that should be respected as the choice to live. I think that we SHOULD have the choice to live or die and not be obliged to do the former. This doesn't mean that everyone should be able to do it without the proper knowledge and information about it although I think that most people, a lot more that what society tells us, have the possiblity to comprehend their choices.
From my point of view, we have the possibility to kill someone who doesn't understand it through abortion, we should be able to do it for someone who has the capability to comprehend fully what's going to happen to him/her/themselves

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I find the whole concept of anti-suicide to be something so inhumane, being against suicide in any way just shows a lack of compassion as after all if somebody else wishes to cease existing that's their decision, only they are the ones trapped with themselves, it's their existence and it would be inhumane to suggest one must suffer when they wish for freedom.

I'm against any seletive pro-choice views such as how people wish to place age limits on the right to die as such a thing is a basic human right, not a privilege only reserved for those who meet a criteria as without the right to cease existing, existence would be no different to imprisonment and slavery.

And anyway it isn't like existence is something so good and beneficial in the first place instead existence just causes harm, to me it could never be desirable having the ability to suffer endlessly so it could never be justified wishing to trap one in this harmful existence where they are a slave to their suffering in this world filled with senseless cruelty and agony.

It's always valid not wanting to suffer anymore and preferring peace instead, it's a personal choice that should be respected and should never need to be justified, only death could ever bring relief for me and my hatred towards existence is just having awareness.

Existence is so replusive and I view it as criminal burdening one with the ability to exist so one should be able to escape from all the harm exactly when they wish to, the right to die is compassionate which is why I could never not be 100% pro-choice, suicide could never be what is "wrong" as after all, all the problems started when existence did.

No. I don't think it should be OK for anyone younger than 25 to CTB. The reason I say that is that the human brain is not fully developed until that age. If you think back to what it was like being an adolescent, everything that happens in a young person's life is like a major crisis. Someone gets dumped by their gf, it's the end of the world. You accidentally blow off a fart in class, it's the end of the world. You trip in the cafeteria and spill your entire tray of food all over the place, it's the end of the world. You spill your books and notebooks all over the hallway floor, and your "secret" doodles of how you love so and so get seen by everyone, and it's the end of the world. You're talking to your friends and discover you have a booger hanging from your nose, and it's the end of the world. You bend down and split your jeans open, and it's the end of the world. You get a D on a test, and it's the end of the world. You send some nude pics of yourself to your bf (which is really stupid btw), and he disseminates them to all of his friends, and it's the end of the world.

And I know full well that many younger people are dealing with much more serious issues, like abuse for example, than typical high school stuff. I still say that a younger mind is unable to process events properly, even serious events, and keep things in perspective. Just about everything negative that happens is doom and gloom when you're a teenager.

The mind just doesn't have enough real life experience before the age of 25 (or so) and is unable to rationalize properly about normal life happenings and makes them out into much bigger issues than they really are (in many cases).

That's how I feel and I make no apologies for it.

 

[Anikah]

I am pro choice 100% but if it's an impulse people should talk it out with someone trusted before doing it to at least, professionals can be helpful but in most cases being a danger to yourself depending on country could get you locked up so unless it's a well thought out decision people should talk to somebody at least

 

[AresCohere]

Not 100% as many cases involve very short-term and sudden hits which will heal/go away with time. However, for many, I think it should be allowed as a choice.

In any case, it should be a last resort, but I'm sure by the time anyone has gotten to CTB as an option they have already exhausted all other options.

 

[John Ryder]

No. I don't think it should be OK for anyone younger than 25 to CTB. The reason I say that is that the human brain is not fully developed until that age. If you think back to what it was like being an adolescent, everything that happens in a young person's life is like a major crisis. Someone gets dumped by their gf, it's the end of the world. You accidentally blow off a fart in class, it's the end of the world. You trip in the cafeteria and spill your entire tray of food all over the place, it's the end of the world. You spill your books and notebooks all over the hallway floor, and your "secret" doodles of how you love so and so get seen by everyone, and it's the end of the world. You're talking to your friends and discover you have a booger hanging from your nose, and it's the end of the world. You bend down and split your jeans open, and it's the end of the world. You get a D on a test, and it's the end of the world. You send some nude pics of yourself to your bf (which is really stupid btw), and he disseminates them to all of his friends, and it's the end of the world.

And I know full well that many younger people are dealing with much more serious issues, like abuse for example, than typical high school stuff. I still say that a younger mind is unable to process events properly, even serious events, and keep things in perspective. Just about everything negative that happens is doom and gloom when you're a teenager.

The mind just doesn't have enough real life experience before the age of 25 (or so) and is unable to rationalize properly about normal life happenings and makes them out into much bigger issues than they really are (in many cases).

That's how I feel and I make no apologies for it.

I like this for its bravery as much as anything (sir do you know where you are, hehe). As far as hashing out an age guideline, it's really hard for me to say beyond the obvious of feeling pretty confident a toddler shouldn't be entrusted with these matters...

 

[carac]

I can't say I am 100% because I think there are circumstances that would concern me such as; coersion, people being lied to or missinformed and impulses.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I like this for its bravery as much as anything (sir do you know where you are, hehe).

Thank you, but I know exactly where I am. It doesn't take bravery to be honest, IMO. We all have opinions, just like arseholes. Anyway, that's how I feel. IMO, adolescent's brains just aren't developed enough to be making such a serious decision about their lives.

 

[thevangirl]

I find the whole concept of anti-suicide to be something so inhumane, being against suicide in any way just shows a lack of compassion as after all if somebody else wishes to cease existing that's their decision, only they are the ones trapped with themselves, it's their existence and it would be inhumane to suggest one must suffer when they wish for freedom.

I'm against any seletive pro-choice views such as how people wish to place age limits on the right to die as such a thing is a basic human right, not a privilege only reserved for those who meet a criteria as without the right to cease existing, existence would be no different to imprisonment and slavery.

And anyway it isn't like existence is something so good and beneficial in the first place instead existence just causes harm, to me it could never be desirable having the ability to suffer endlessly so it could never be justified wishing to trap one in this harmful existence where they are a slave to their suffering in this world filled with senseless cruelty and agony.

It's always valid not wanting to suffer anymore and preferring peace instead, it's a personal choice that should be respected and should never need to be justified, only death could ever bring relief for me and my hatred towards existence is just having awareness.

Existence is so replusive and I view it as criminal burdening one with the ability to exist so one should be able to escape from all the harm exactly when they wish to, the right to die is compassionate which is why I could never not be 100% pro-choice, suicide could never be what is "wrong" as after all, all the problems started when existence did.

I am pro-choice and agree with most of what is being said here. But my only fear of legalizing euthanasia is it might lead to governments not taking good care of its people and allowing the homelessness crisis and economic crisis to go astray because the general people who suffer due to these bad policies will just have the option to choose euthanasia - allowing the people in power to not do anything. As a result the powerful and wealthy will be the only ones to benefit in such a society and the rest of us will have the choice to live a poor standard of life or choose suicide.

 

[jbear824]

Yes. I believe the right to die at any time for any reason is a right we are inherently born with. and I think it's the most egregious human rights violation that governments and societies think they can dictate whether people are allowed to do so.

I am pro-choice and agree with most of what is being said here. But my only fear of legalizing euthanasia is it might lead to governments not taking good care of its people and allowing the homelessness crisis and economic crisis to go astray because the general people who suffer due to these bad policies will just have the option to choose euthanasia - allowing the people in power to not do anything. As a result the powerful and wealthy will be the only ones to benefit in such a society and the rest of us will have the choice to live a poor standard of life or choose suicide.

This is pretty much already the case and is becoming more widespread all over the world.

 

[EndJstifiesTheMeans]

Yes, no age limit of course, i would have do it at 6, i know it sounds bad, but if you got trauma life can be torture even at that age, and honestly if a kid have some trauma at that age and want to die, society have failed to protect him/her

And if i would have do it at 6' everyone will cry for me, and i can leave this awful world before someone could hate me or i do some mistake but with good intention

Also where is the difference? at age of 6' or 13'? if you fall in love with some random school friend at 13' age why you are forced to live, seeing her doing stuff with other one? why you have to endure to be 18'? and MAYBE PROBABLY because all the suffering you have to endure you will try to speak with that person and try to explain your emotion or start to be jealous.. maybe you will ruin everything, and remembered bad just because didn't endure the suffer to be forced to live and tried so to show your emotion to her, just because YOU WAS FORCED TO DO IT, BECAUSE WAS THE ONLY THING THAT CAN PUT YOU OUT OF PAIN, BECAUSE CTB WASN'T AN OPTION, YOU WILL RUIN A FRIENDSHIP

Sorry for the caps but, it touch me personally

Also existence in general is really bullsh*t for me, probably i would have been depressed even with the girl i love..

Because is so stressful to know that maybe one day she can leave you, cheat on you and stuff like that, no one couple endure all life nowdays... its just a metter of time before something happen, also even if we managed to be togheter what if i could have do it MORE for her? but i didn't realized how at that time? life is only stress and pain...

 

[brokeandbroken]

For me I think this has to be approached with a degree of realism. What may work and what may not. If you are expecting some Jim Jones but on grander scale suicide pact where everyone just dies that isn't going to happen. That said what I do think could would be a program where say you meet with psychologists and mental health professionals over the course of a time period say 1 year. If you work with them when that year is up, and you are still suicidal then you have the option to painlessly/peacefully CTB. I think this is the most realistic thing that could be achieved.

 

[ninevoltheart]

No. I don't think it should be OK for anyone younger than 25 to CTB. The reason I say that is that the human brain is not fully developed until that age. If you think back to what it was like being an adolescent, everything that happens in a young person's life is like a major crisis. Someone gets dumped by their gf, it's the end of the world. You accidentally blow off a fart in class, it's the end of the world. You trip in the cafeteria and spill your entire tray of food all over the place, it's the end of the world. You spill your books and notebooks all over the hallway floor, and your "secret" doodles of how you love so and so get seen by everyone, and it's the end of the world. You're talking to your friends and discover you have a booger hanging from your nose, and it's the end of the world. You bend down and split your jeans open, and it's the end of the world. You get a D on a test, and it's the end of the world. You send some nude pics of yourself to your bf (which is really stupid btw), and he disseminates them to all of his friends, and it's the end of the world.

And I know full well that many younger people are dealing with much more serious issues, like abuse for example, than typical high school stuff. I still say that a younger mind is unable to process events properly, even serious events, and keep things in perspective. Just about everything negative that happens is doom and gloom when you're a teenager.

The mind just doesn't have enough real life experience before the age of 25 (or so) and is unable to rationalize properly about normal life happenings and makes them out into much bigger issues than they really are (in many cases).

That's how I feel and I make no apologies for it.

exactly how i feel. especially now where kids younger and younger are being faced with shit nobody should go through. too many families have grieved elementary school kids who took their lives over bullying and such, making it legal for that to happen would only worsen it. even if laws were implemented so they needed some form of consent, no person in their right mind would authorize a 9/10 y/o kid saying they want to be euthanized. kids that young can't comprehend the concept of life and death itself, much less make informed decisions about whether to take theirs.

its hard to be 100% pro-choice in this. its a topic with a lot of nuance; its not as simple as "everyone has a right to legally CTB". someone with an intellectual disability, suffering with addiction or mental instability, or whos brain isn't fully developed could be more impressionable. if all they read is that death is painless + there's no point in living, especially when they haven't experienced it to their fullest, can you really say their decision would be solely their own? or unbiased?

if someone's exhausted all options and reached a point in their life where they can't continue, then yes, assisted suicide or other options should be accessible to them. but that doesn't mean everyone should have the same access, just like how not everyone can walk into a gun shop and buy an assault rifle. do i think suicide is wrong/ would i shame anybody for their choice to CTB? no, because i believe their struggles. but i can't agree that it should be legal for all.

and i think comparing existence to slavery or imprisonment is a little ignorant. nobody chooses to be born, but it doesn't mean we're all trapped in this life of endless suffering. its hard and depressing, yes, but it can be a beautiful thing, too.