Venting Are incels bad (considering one set up this forum)?

[BluesRunTheGame]

I've consistently seen it used as an insult - including on this forum - but is it not just lonely men who are either misrepresented or not represented at all in the media?

You are a hypocrite if you think racism/sexism is bad but lookism doesn't matter.

 

[Andrew10]

To be honest, I don't really know what the word "incel" means at all, But I think it's a man blaming all women simply for his failure in love.

It really is something sad to have this kind of thinking, if you think that with this mentality that "women don't empathize with you" thinking that you are going to find people who agree with you even here you are going to be referred as "incel" because you are wrong and any person with common sense is going to tell you the same thing. You divide men and women and you think that all women have a specific mentality and only do harm because I suppose you are obsessed with looking for love or a partner and if you don't achieve it, it is automatically the fault of the female gender, and this is how the term "incel" was formed and with you this story of blaming women is repeated again.

Man, stop having this thought, whether men or women, we are all people, there are good people and there are bad people, you can find bad influences or supportive people in this world regardless of gender and if you continue to pay for your rejection in love with others you will be called an "incel" again. At the end of the day we are all human beings and each one of us has different reasons why we were brought to this place.

Peace

 

[leloyon]

I feel like most people use it as a cheap insult. It's basically just calling someone a loser.
Losers are always going to be ostracised. However, it really riles the normies up when they commit an act of violence. Then they can point to them and say "see!!!! these people are EVIL and VIOLENT so its RIGHT to bully them!!!!"
Look at the otaku panic in Japan. As a result of the crimes of Tsutomu Miyazaki, people demonised an entire subculture (otaku). Truth be told, these people were already seen as degenerate losers, but now they had ammunition, they could point to Miyazaki and say "see??? these otaku are violent, child murdering pedophiles!!!" This later also happened with another murderer, Kaoru Kobayashi, who also caused otaku to be demonised and considered as potential sex offenders despite not even being one whatsoever.
To me, it's the same shit, all over again. The Satanic panic, the otaku panic, the goth panic that came after Columbine, the new school shooter panic, the incel panic etc. it's all the same shit.
Losers and loners will never be accepted, and normal people will always take advantage of one loser snapping to paint all of them as violent.
To me, people who identify as incels are often misogynistic to an extent, often as a result of real-world treatment (not that it makes it right). However, they are often self-destructive and suicidal, rather than homicidal.

 

[Davey36000]

I feel like most people use it as a cheap insult. It's basically just calling someone a loser.
Losers are always going to be ostracised. However, it really riles the normies up when they commit an act of violence. Then they can point to them and say "see!!!! these people are EVIL and VIOLENT so its RIGHT to bully them!!!!"
Look at the otaku panic in Japan. As a result of the crimes of Tsutomu Miyazaki, people demonised an entire subculture (otaku). Truth be told, these people were already seen as degenerate losers, but now they had ammunition, they could point to Miyazaki and say "see??? these otaku are violent, child murdering pedophiles!!!" This later also happened with another murderer, Kaoru Kobayashi, who also caused otaku to be demonised and considered as potential sex offenders despite not even being one whatsoever.
To me, it's the same shit, all over again. The Satanic panic, the otaku panic, the goth panic that came after Columbine, the new school shooter panic, the incel panic etc. it's all the same shit.
Losers and loners will never be accepted, and normal people will always take advantage of one loser snapping to paint all of them as violent.
To me, people who identify as incels are often misogynistic to an extent, often as a result of real-world treatment (not that it makes it right). However, they are often self-destructive and suicidal, rather than homicidal.

You explained it very well. Unfortunately many people are very cruel and this is just another example.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Depends on what other attributes they have and depends on how they act on them. Incels that are violent towards women I would say were 'bad'. It has lead to that sometimes. Most of the time, their thinking is probably more hurtful to themselves rather than others though.

For the majority- I do feel sorry for them. I can see it from their perspective. In fact- I'd say in part, I was a Femcel- at least, I was when I was younger. Now, it's more by choice than design. But in general- I think they have a point about how this society influences us to choose a certain 'type' and it can be very difficult if you aren't that 'type'. I'd argue that that applies to both men and women though. (Although, I don't intend to get into an argument on who has it worse.)

Also- it's something both sexes are 'taught'. So- it's wider society that should take the blame- not individual women, or men. You can't really blame an individual for having a preference but you can look at why we tend to go for that certain thing and blame the cultural influences and biology that dominate us.

In terms of the attributes that quite often go with incels- you can argue that it is inevitable/justified they would feel this but- are these 'good' qualities to have? Prejudice, misogyny, victimhood, a sense of entitlement, aggression towards women sometimes leading to hate speech and violence. I'd say none of those qualities are great to have. Does that make them a 'bad' person? On it's own- no. It depends on how they act on those qualities.

Free speech is fine- so long as it doesn't incite violence but... it works in both directions. You can post whatever you like- doesn't mean people have to like or agree with it. And- if they don't- they have the 'freedom' to say so. You can't control how other people will react to what you say. You can't stop people feeling insulted by what you say. And- if people are insulting you with phrases such as 'incel', then probably they are taking offence at something you've said. Rightly or wrongly- that's how they've interpreted it.

Usually, I would only think of the term 'incel' when I detect a level of misogyny. I wouldn't think it about a guy who was just lonely and didn't have much luck with women but liked and respected them all the same. It's usually used when the person has said something to suggest they feel entitled, they feel unjustly victimized and especially- they show a level of resentment towards women. A lot of the time, there is a level of disrespect towards women in a post I would consider to be by an incel. And yes- I would be using it as a negative term in that instance. Who enjoys being disrespected? In a way- it's like saying: 'Is racism bad?' Yes- of course it is. It is judging a whole group of people according to a prejudice. Expressing racist comments is likely (and rightly) to land someone with backlash. Same with incels.

With regards to the creators of this forum, I'm massively grateful. I wonder what it was like back in the day. Did it have more of an incel vibe? Were many women on here then? Or, welcomed here then? I can't imagine it would have been that welcoming if every other post blamed their gender for that person's woes. So yes- I'm immensely grateful but I'm glad this place is open to everyone now and doesn't have an overiding misogynistic tone (if it ever did before.)

 

[penguinl0v3s]

The term incel has shifted from the definition of "men unable to get a sexual partner" to "men who hate women and/or misogynistic men." I've found that people who identify as incels are way worse than people who are incels but don't identify as such. Because those that do are probably involved in incel subculture, which is misogynistic and self-victimizing.

It's also really cringe in general to base an identity off of relationship status, because it places overemphasis on romantic relationships. A person's worth is not based on the number of people they've been with, and anyone that thinks that is immature. While they're nice, the best relationship I've had in my life was a friendship, and I would place my long time best friends over a romantic partner any day.

Also, there are so many ways to improve your looks. They require a bit of money, but fashion, skincare, and makeup make a big difference. I think it would be better if everyone embraced a beauty culture similar to that of Korea, where wearing makeup, styling your hair, and wearing your best clothes isn't seen as vain or insecure, it is instead seen as respect for others. The desire to look presentable for others just out of politeness is a good thing, not a bad one.

 

[tiger b]

but is it not just lonely men

Probably not, but maybe mostly. I don't think any group can be generalised too much. The more extremes of any group who shout the loudest are always noticed more than any milder majority. Whether that applies or not here, I don't know for sure.

 

[WonderingSoul]

It depends on what you mean because I see people use that term in many ways. If you mean just lonely men in general, then no. However, most men that identify to be incels tend to be more misogynistic and insanely negative, and yes that's bad. Tbh, I'm not really sure what the word means anymore because I think the term shifted due to the media and the fact that it is commonly used as an insult.

I do think look-ism is real, to an extent.

 

[MatrixPrisoner]

No, the 2 people that thought it was a good idea to bump uglies and give birth to the incel are bad. The incel did not ask to be brought into this world. The incel did not ask for the flaw genes that were inherited from the worthless parents. People just need to stop reproducing - seriously.

 

[UKscotty]

If a guy is whiney and moaning because he is not man enough to attract a female, he's an incel in my view.

It's not good or bad, it's just pathetic and has no place on a suicide forum.

If someone wants to get better at attracting women, he needs to man up and sort himself out. We are not a forum for that, we are the opposite. We are here to end it all.

 

[fwompie]

Feeling sad that one cannot seem to find a partner is one thing. Blaming women for not being your partner instead of working on yourself is another. Self-proclaimed incels willingly associate themselves with an ideology that is recognized as a terrorist movement because of the horrible actions of many incels.

So yes in my view actual self proclaimed incels are bad. Sad guys that don't know any better and fall into it, are in so much danger for being indoctrinated. But I don't view men without partners as bad, I understand it can be very hard for some people to get into a relationship because of many factors. It's just the choice they make on what to do with it that I might have a problem with.

Sorry for my grammar and/or weird sentences, lot of brain fog right now.

 

[Mistiie]

Literal incels (i.e people who can't find a partner for whatever reason), probably not. They're basically your average person. You could describe anyone in the dating scene but can't get a match on Tinder as an 'incel'. That's like, a lot of people.

Modern incels (i.e the altered definition referring to people who identify as incels or are misogynistic, hateful, usually incredibly far-right-wing/fascist)? Obviously. That shouldn't be debated. As others have mentioned, it's more often than not those who identify as incels or lurk specific political or 'underground' forums (like the level that this forum operates at in notoriety) who are the gross ones that you should avoid.

 

[Suicidebydeath]

Imo, it entirely depends on why they're an incel, their ideology and how they express themselves. Incels aren't bad by default, but if someone called themself an incel they should expect that people might have preconceptions about them. Considering there is a blanket term "forever alone", at least on reddit, for people that are broadly different but in the exact same situation, might be part of that. Someone can also not be strictly incel/FA but feel they belong in either group. Loneliness is the common factor. Someone can be lonely and/or dateless without having the incel "mindset".

Basically as the poster above me said, I haven't read the entire thread.

 

[todeswunsch]

The term deviated from the original meaning (involuntary celibate) to just mean some aggressive misogyny.
I get the frustration, but its not a justification for being aggressive.
I'm lonely myself and I don't act that way. Its just pathetic, and that's why it is a derogatory term nowadays.
Just don't be an asshole and ppl won't care if you are incel or not. I'm misanthropic but I'm not aggressive towards no-one, and until now ppl have treated me very nicely

 

[gbi2]

Probably not, but maybe mostly. I don't think any group can be generalised too much. The more extremes of any group who shout the loudest are always noticed more than any milder majority. Whether that applies or not here, I don't know for sure.

That is spot on, it is always the ones with mild views, the ones closer to the centre of a debate, who don't feel the need to shout about what they want so anyone who listens to the debate and doesn't factor that in will see two very extreme opposite views and nothing inbetween.

But it is a shame that is it always the ones who shout louder who get heard. The Fire Rescue and Ambulance services approach is to pay attention to the silent ones first, but society does the opposite. And even though the majority disagree with both extremes, there is an apt quote from Margaret Mead that unfortunately applies:

"Never underestimate the power of a small group of committed people to change the world. In fact, it is the only thing that ever has." ~ Margaret Mead

And that is why the world is changing for the worst for most of us.
It hasn't needed changing for a long time.

 

[gbi2]

I've consistently seen it used as an insult - including on this forum - but is it not just lonely men who are either misrepresented or not represented at all in the media?

You are a hypocrite if you think racism/sexism is bad but lookism doesn't matter.

From what I understand, the term has a similar history as 'troll' in that it was first used by people referring to themselves and it has been turned into an insult over time. The only difference is that in the early days of the internet, it would be asked "Do you want to do some trolling tonight?" which would mean, "shall we go on some chatrooms and post provocative comments and see who gets wound up by them?". Trolling was used because it simulated the art of fishing called trolling, where a boat would drag a lure through the water until something bit. But misunderstandings have caused people to think trolling means 'being a horrid creature of fables' which makes sense to them because 'trollers' are in a way being horrid while they do their trolling.

Involuntary Celebates haven't had the name changed that they first used to describe themselves but it has come to be applied to the worst of the demographic and so it is an insult now, which unfortunately insults the Incels who don't blame anyone for their celebacy but just can't understand why they are 'left out'

I was once an Incel, but over time I've wanted to remain single anyway. Not that I'm now fighting women off, but the past few times any have shown an interest I've just flatly said I'm not interested in any relationship of any kind. But in a way, Incel has been an insult to me even though I don't hate women.

 

[Meditation guide]

This site is for people who want to talk about suicide.

 

[Lupgevif]

I consider incels bad. They brought this upon themselves. At first, way back in the 90s (yes, the term is that old) it meant people, of any gender, who could not find sexual partners - it was even created by a LGBTQ woman. At some point, after the 2010s, men started gathering on the internet under that term to spread pure misoginy, to the point of commiting real life violence. Yes, lookism is a very real problem in our world right now, but it doest not justify how incels acted. If you have trouble finding partners and is celibate against your will, you are better off staying away from that term.

think it would be better if everyone embraced a beauty culture similar to that of Korea

lmao no

 

[Adûnâi]

you think that all women have a specific mentality and only do harm because I suppose you are obsessed with looking for love or a partner and if you don't achieve it, it is automatically the fault of the female gender, and this is how the term "incel" was formed and with you this story of blaming women is repeated again.

Obsessed with looking for love? Isn't it like obsessed with drinking water? Love is an integral part of human live, it is one of the basic human needs! How dare you disregard it like that? This is what being privileged looks like - privileged people telling the dispossessed to suck it up. Absolutely vile.

But I think it's a man blaming all women simply for his failure in love.

It really is something sad to have this kind of thinking, if you think that with this mentality that "women don't empathize with you" thinking that you are going to find people who agree with you even here you are going to be referred as "incel" because you are wrong and any person with common sense is going to tell you the same thing.

I don't think the black-pilled incels can "blame women" at all. Granted, many incels are just stupid and incoherent, but the essence of of their so-called blackpill is genetic determinism - Some people are allotted a good token in life, others draw the short stick. Incels may only hate chads and women if they assign to them a moral responsibility to care for all members of society, incl. incels - but blackpill is silent on the matter, and incel moral sensibilities differ.

I for one blame the Universe as inherently chaotic and inhospitable place, foreign to any morality, beauty or order.

P.S. As to the hatreds - seeing how besmirched incels are outside their tiny forum, I don't feel any moral indignation at paying back in kind. (Not to you personally, I always try to be civil to individuals in my interactions. What I mean is that I won't shed tears for the casualties in this war.)

P.P.S. And if anyone cares to respond to me, here's my situation - I'm a 27 year old boy living in the Ukraine, and I have never talked to anyone but my mom. I have zero clue as to how or where or when people form social connections, homo- or heterosexual. So I wish I had handholding experience... only for the girl to be horrified at muh' misogynistic worldview. Because chances are, I will never ever reach that stage at all.

 

[Andrew10]

Obsessed with looking for love? Isn't it like obsessed with drinking water? Love is an integral part of human live, it is one of the basic human needs! How dare you disregard it like that? This is what being privileged looks like - privileged people telling the dispossessed to suck it up. Absolutely vile.


I don't think the black-pilled incels can "blame women" at all. Granted, many incels are just stupid and incoherent, but the essence of of their so-called blackpill is genetic determinism - Some people are allotted a good token in life, others draw the short stick. Incels may only hate chads and women if they assign to them a moral responsibility to care for all members of society, incl. incels - but blackpill is silent on the matter, and incel moral sensibilities differ.

I for one blame the Universe as inherently chaotic and inhospitable place, foreign to any morality, beauty or order.

P.S. As to the hatreds - seeing how besmirched incels are outside their tiny forum, I don't feel any moral indignation at paying back in kind. (Not to you personally, I always try to be civil to individuals in my interactions. What I mean is that I won't shed tears for the casualties in this war.)

P.P.S. And if anyone cares to respond to me, here's my situation - I'm a 27 year old boy living in the Ukraine, and I have never talked to anyone but my mom. I have zero clue as to how or where or when people form social connections, homo- or heterosexual. So I wish I had handholding experience... only for the girl to be horrified at muh' misogynistic worldview. Because chances are, I will never ever reach that stage at all.

I think you have misunderstood but that's ok because you do not know the context, this user previously had controversies with several users here and he blamed several people in this forum, you can find out yourself by looking at his old posts, my answer was in the whole situation that this person got in. I don't have any evil intention but I'm just being honest, he was blaming an entire sector in this forum and I was simply saying that there is no need to blame innocent people especially when everyone here has suffered to the point of ending up on this forum.

BTW I am not privileged nor do I consider myself one, but I understand being called that given your description of your situation, wherever you are I send you a big hug from a distance and a lot of support, I am sorry that life took you to that point ♥
You are a warrior for enduring that hell for 27 years, you have my admiration for that.

 

[Adûnâi]

You are a warrior for enduring that hell for 27 years, you have my admiration for that.

Thanks for responding! I like to talk, but the only one I have is my mom, again, which is rather stupid.

If I were to hijack this thread, I could say that in many ways I'm a fake poser - I'm not ugly but autistic (hence a "fakecel" "mentalcel"), I hate women but am into gentle femdom (hence "woman worshipper" and a "poofter"), and I'm suicidal but too clueless to pick a tree or buy a rope (hence a fake suicider).

I'm also a fake Ukrainian because while I speak Ukrainian, I can't type it because I only type in English, and because I support Russia without supporting Putin... You can err on the side of caution and just hate me overall, I will offend everyone for all the wrong reasons. I'm also privileged, don't have to work, but also despise rotting while hating people IRL... I honestly have no idea.

Chances are I will be here 2 years from now, happy and content with my affordable AI waifu or something. I've been trying to cope with it, but it's just not there yet, and I can't beg my mom for 20 USD a month for better models.

 

[ManchildLoser]

If a guy is whiney and moaning because he is not man enough to attract a female, he's an incel in my view.

It's not good or bad, it's just pathetic and has no place on a suicide forum.

If someone wants to get better at attracting women, he needs to man up and sort himself out. We are not a forum for that, we are the opposite. We are here to end it all.

Incels usually want to ctb...so yes they have a place here.

 

[Aergia]

I don't think we can make blanket statements about incels or treat morality as a dichotomy. I do think it's dumb how the term incel has evolved to simply mean a misogynist and how often it's consequently used as an insult.

With regards to the creators of this forum, I'm massively grateful. I wonder what it was like back in the day. Did it have more of an incel vibe? Were many women on here then? Or, welcomed here then?

I recall reading somewhere that this was the only forum they created that allowed women to join. Since this forum was created as an extension of the SS subreddit which presumably didn't bar women from joining I'm inclined to think that the forum wasn't male/incel dominated in its early days. Perhaps old members can weigh in. Frankly, I'm grateful to the forum creators too. Whatever their views on gender were, they obviously recognised that women should be able to be here too.

 

[UKscotty]

Incels usually want to ctb...so yes they have a place here.

They are welcome here but not their moaning about women.

No one wants to hear a guy whine and cry about how he is not man enough. Take than nonsense somewhere else.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

With regards to the creators of this forum, I'm massively grateful. I wonder what it was like back in the day. Did it have more of an incel vibe? Were many women on here then? Or, welcomed here then? I can't imagine it would have been that welcoming if every other post blamed their gender for that person's woes. So yes- I'm immensely grateful but I'm glad this place is open to everyone now and doesn't have an overiding misogynistic tone (if it ever did before.)

Well, back on the old subreddit complaining about Females wasn't uncommon either.

Fortunately that shit was shut down.

 

[Adûnâi]

No one wants to hear a guy whine and cry about how he is not man enough. Take than nonsense somewhere else.

Well, back on the old subreddit complaining about Females wasn't uncommon either.

And this is why sex segregation on the incel forum is a good thing. Such a callous attitude.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

And this is why sex segregation on the incel forum is a good thing. Such a callous attitude.

Lamenting one's loneliness or lack of romantic prospects is one thing. Decrying women for not leaving their partners and throwing themselves on you just for existing is another.

 

[Adûnâi]

Decrying women for not leaving their partners and throwing themselves on you just for existing is another.

What incel does that? The main thing about incels is desperation at their appearance - facial features, height, race. Are you aware of your strawmanning?

 

[Brown-Jacket Revy]

It's one thing to be an incel, it's another to harbor a ton of resentment and rage towards the entirety of a gender because they don't give you the attention you think you deserve.

I get it - being depressed, isolated, socially inept, one feels the need to search for a safe space to have an outlet and bond with like-minded people.

However, this flawed mindset carries over into reality and completely retards one's progress and happiness (assuming one plans to live life and enjoy it rather than kill themselves).

Instead of blaming the world or women for their so-called "genetic" downfall, perhaps they should take accountability for whatever shortcomings they might have and try to improve themselves in various ways, because 9/10 times, it's an abhorrent attitude inhibiting them from thriving socially and romantically, not their looks.

I've seen the depraved shit they say on their forums; calling women toilets, promoting pedophilia, rape, calling for the murder of pregnant women because they experience some weird ass para-cuckholdery from seeing pregnant women in public.

Those types of people get no sympathy from me.

Just because you're miserable doesn't excuse abhorrent behavior.

 

[Adûnâi]

Just because you're miserable doesn't excuse abhorrent behavior.

"Abhorrent behaviour" = venting on an anonymous forum? Pretty sure those people who cut female genitalia off in Egypt are a far cry from those incels. Yet the incels are "abhorrent"? Priorities, man.