Are evil people most often aware that they are evil?

[noname223]

My parents ruined my life but their intentions were good. There is a saying in my native language "well-intentioned is often the opposite of well done".

There is also the question whether there exist actually evil people.

I think in politics there are no groups who see themselves as the evil people. Even terrorists think God would be on their side.

Maybe people who intentionally torture other people know that they are evil. However, I could also imagine these people do enough mental gymnastics to deceive themselves. There will be many who scapegoat their victims or others.

In the end most people consider the members (especially longterm members) of this forum as purely evil.

My conclusion is: evilness is a matter of perspective. But most evil people probably don't consider themselves evil. It is even likely that many good people consider themselves evil. There are many people too harsh on themselves especially when they internalized too much self-hatred after bullying or abuse.

It is ironic many purely evil might be immune to feelings of guilt and remorse. While people who try to be good as possible torment themselves for inner thoughts (not actions) they have (done). I think most people have evil thoughts from time to time. That is human. Like wanting vengeance or stuff like that. But thoughts are not actions. I have had extremely intimate exchanges with my best friend about most taboo stuff there is like dreams about incest. And we saw some parallels and came to the conclusion that most people feel so bad about taboo thoughts that they do not speak them out and some people consider them uniquely weird or evil becauser they never speak to anyone about it. Despite the fact it is way more common in reality but noone talks about it openly.

 

[Jarni]

In case of mental degradation (psychopaths : criminals etc., dark triads etc.) we can rather be sure they are evil. It's mental degradation, so....

Otherwise I like very much this thought of L. N. Tolstoy:

"One of the most common misconceptions is to consider people good, evil, stupid, smart.

Man flows and he has all the possibilities: he was stupid - he became smart; he was angry - he became kind and vice versa.

This is the greatness of man.

And You can't judge a person because of this - you judged him, but he's already different."

 

[noname223]

Bump

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Is it not more evil to be aware of how evil one is and then continue to do it? Ignorance is not an excuse. Ignorance and intent are independent of ethics. For example, suppose you didn't know you killed someone. That still gets you an involuntary manslaughter charge. Suppose you had no idea that you aren't supposed to drink and drive, does that make it okay to do so? Of course not.

Just because many who are evil don't seem to realize they are doesn't mean everyone who's evil is. Plus they may just not outwardly show they know because it's the only way to stay sane while internally of course they know what they're doing is evil and they may even feel a little bad about it and yet they continue on anyway. Actions should be evaluated first and foremost.

One of the biggest empty platitudes I keep getting thrown when I try to say I'm an evil person is that "a real evil person wouldn't say that". I don't care that I said that, it doesn't make me good just because I happen to not fit a perceived stereotype of evil.

 

[noname223]

Is it not more evil to be aware of how evil one is and then continue to do it? Ignorance is not an excuse. Ignorance and intent are independent of ethics. For example, suppose you didn't know you killed someone. That still gets you an involuntary manslaughter charge. Suppose you had no idea that you aren't supposed to drink and drive, does that make it okay to do so? Of course not.

Just because many who are evil don't seem to realize they are doesn't mean everyone who's evil is. Plus they may just not outwardly show they know because it's the only way to stay sane while internally of course they know what they're doing is evil and they may even feel a little bad about it and yet they continue on anyway. Actions should be evaluated first and foremost.

One of the biggest empty platitudes I keep getting thrown when I try to say I'm an evil person is that "a real evil person wouldn't say that". I don't care that I said that, it doesn't make me good just because I happen to not fit a perceived stereotype of evil.

You could be right. I thought about socio- and psychopaths typing it down. If you lack empathy you might can fade out that your actions are evil for example by thinking the victims were NPCs. At the same time one could also imagine they enjoy the pain of their victims and are well aware about it.

 

[Pluto]

 

[NoPointOfReturning]

I'd say they aren't aware.

 

[DarkRange55]

@Pluto
@lamargue
@Praestat_Mori
@Forever Sleep
@Angst Filled Fuck Up
@sserafim (even though I think I'm dead to her lol)
@Blurry_Buildings
@SexyIncél
@anyone I missed!

Bump

What say you, my friend (@Forever Sleep)?

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

I think we have to look at the motivational force behind the "evil" (which is a bit of a crappy concept in and of itself). Dictators for example don't typically do the things they do to be evil for the sake of it. There will be some (deeply flawed) rationale or driver behind a given action. In fact, oftentimes they believe they are acting from a place of virtue or utilitarianism, even if a large chunk of people look at their behavior and go "what the fuck are they thinking?"

I suppose in that sense, evil is almost entirely subjective. Do your views align with what some "evil" person did? Then you won't perceive it as such. A great many atrocities have been committed in the name of religion or nationalism for instance, and it can all be quite easily sold to those with a proclivity to believe in the cause. When you're all on the same team, anything can be justified.

No doubt there are people who lean towards psychopathy or sociopathy, which is more the absence of self-reflection or ethics. No empathy means you can do just about anything without any qualms or self-examination. These people may not feel any guilt about harming their loves ones or torturing the neighbor's cat. We talk about this kind of thing often in the context of serial killers, but rarely in situations where these people run organizations or nations.

Most people are deeply uncomfortable with being labeled evil and from their own perspective, they almost never will be. How do you quantify this stuff, anyway? If you believe you're acting in the best interest of others or according to a set of ethics you adhere to, could you really be considered all that awful? What about your upbringing? Were your parents evil and you just inherited it or acted out as a form of trickle-down? Then there's the media slant. What are they putting out, and what angle are they playing up?

It's all pretty complicated, and probably on a spectrum. But I suspect most people aren't all that aware, due to the fact they have their own justifications for things, if nothing else.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's a very interesting idea. I find it hard to believe that people who do awful acts don't realise on some level that they are doing something wrong. A criminal trying to cover their tracks at least demonstrates they know what they are doing is against the law.

As for what's going on in their heads though, who really knows? I think they may well have some bizarre narative going on that somehow enables them to not see themselves as evil. Others openly get off on it.

As for whether there even is such a thing as evil, that's tricky too. Some people who do terrible things had terrible things done to them. That's not to excuse it but you can better understand how it may have messed with their heads. I suppose you do still get outliers though who go off the rails despite a seemingly average background.

Do you suppose a fascination with this sort of stuff is unhealthy also? The past few years, I've gotten into true crime and I don't really know why because it's horrible!

 

[noname223]

It's a very interesting idea. I find it hard to believe that people who do awful acts don't realise on some level that they are doing something wrong. A criminal trying to cover their tracks at least demonstrates they know what they are doing is against the law.

As for what's going on in their heads though, who really knows? I think they may well have some bizarre narative going on that somehow enables them to not see themselves as evil. Others openly get off on it.

As for whether there even is such a thing as evil, that's tricky too. Some people who do terrible things had terrible things done to them. That's not to excuse it but you can better understand how it may have messed with their heads. I suppose you do still get outliers though who go off the rails despite a seemingly average background.

Do you suppose a fascination with this sort of stuff is unhealthy also? The past few years, I've gotten into true crime and I don't really know why because it's horrible!

I think to a certain extend morbid curiosity is normal. Modern humans are to an extent civilized but we are still driven by our instincts. And mass media nurtures us/caters to that. We get tamed. It is better to binge one true crime podcast after another than to actually plan murder. Despite the fact some sound sensationalistic to me.

 

[R_N]

There are plenty of people here who have evil thoughts and express them constantly but ironically consider themselves on the good side/only the victim. I'm not perfect but I am aware of how I hurt others.

For example this post might trigger people with similar behavioural patterns but maybe some of them open their eyes to their own evil. Most of them are brainwashed tho.