Discussion Are attitudes towards suicidal ideation likely to change?

[Forever Sleep]

So, I may well be making some parallels here that you might argue don't exist- which would be fair enough- I'm hoping that might be part of the discussion...

For now, I'm ignoring all the economic/ social/ religious standpoints against the idea of suicide. I'm more focusing on this idea of suicide as a violation against nature or an unnatural thought process to have in the first place.

I don't think I could argue with that to begin with- it's our natural instinct to survive afterall. What I would say though is we have been gifted/cursed with different levels of thinking. We have an older, more primal part of our brain (in which our instincts to survive presumably live) and a more fluid, thinking part of the brain- which is influenced by all sorts of things. Our thinking changes throughout our history- and some ideas that were absolutely prohibited at one point (and even seen as mental 'illness') are tolerated now.

When you think about it- many thoughts that have been viewed to be in contradiction to the 'natural order' have been opposed at one time or another.

I'm not saying I agree with this by any means but homosexuality was once seen as a psychiatric dissorder. Abortion has and still does have intense opposition in some places. I suspect even anti natilism would have been less tolerated a few decades ago where a woman's place was more traditionally seen as staying at home and raising children. Of course, you still will get people who argue that all things are 'abnormal' but I'd say the general consensus in many countries is moving towards a more liberal acceptance of the rights of an individual.

All of these things share in common the raise in respect given to personal autonomy. I suppose my thinking is- will this ever extend to ideas on suicidal ideation? Or, are we just too different in our value systems and outlooks to the 'normies' to allow for this?

 

[Papilio_polyxenes]

Short answer - it's unlikely. Long answer - very complicated.

In many ancient cultures/religions, suicide victims were treated as the "dishonorable" dead - no final rites in Judaism or traditional burial for Muslims. European cultures after Christianity treated attempted suicide as a serious crime equivalent to murder.

Eastern cultures generally maintained a more permissive attitude towards the taking of one's own life. Nevertheless, Hinduism and Buddhist only "allow" the practice under specific circumstances - everything else leads to negative rebirth outcomes.

Nowadays, few modern Western societies treat suicide attempts as a crime. I'd argue this is a distinction without a difference. You can still be chained down by police and confined to psychiatric care against your will.

Most world religions today seek to "absolve" the suicidal of supposed moral responsibility. Christian churches and synagogues will hold normal funerals for suicide victims. This issue is still controversial in Islam, but the needle has at least moved from "all suicides go to hell."

Greater awareness of mental illness has made society regard suicidal people with more compassion than contempt. Unfortunately, this "compassion" is not acceptance of bodily autonomy or freedom of choice.

"Death with dignity"/euthanasia is spreading in more secular nations like Canada/Western Europe. What we do here will probably never be accepted or mainstream. In most people's eyes, more rights for average suicidal people would be better care or awareness - not a "right" to death.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Maybe if and when the Earth is groaning under the sheer weight of how many billions more, they'll be more inclined to let people go.

 

[ksp]

yes, absolutely! it's slow, but mentality of younger generations will accept that personal autonomy is a supreme right - don't impose your ideas on me (self determination includes suicide - absolute freedom)

it's slow because all leaders (politicians) have to be replaced by minds free of indoctrination. when that happens, people will accept individual decisions

that being said, all countries need to have voluntary euthanasia - RIGHT NOW, for 4 undeniable reasons:

1. terminal physical illnesses - makes no sense to force pure suffering (absolutely irrational)
2. non-terminal, incurable physical disease - force suffering
3. non-terminal, incurable, severe, and persistent mental illnesses - force suffering
4. age: 70 years old, or more - free to end their life, no questions asked

canada's direction
uk and usa are extremely backwards in this aspect

when this is done, there will be questions about philosophical mentality: yes, you are free to end your life, but your decision needs deep reflection - years of self analysis

 

[Forever Sleep]

it's slow because all leaders (politicians) have to be replaced by minds free of indoctrination. when that happens, people will accept individual decisions

I wonder how many of our leaders have/had humble or liberal backgrounds though... I imagine being born in to relative privelage MAY mean a better education- possibly connected to religion and overall- better prospects- in which case- would the thought of suicide as a rational choice ever enter their mind?

Not to say there aren't people from regular backgrounds or that rich, clever, privelaged people don't suffer also. I don't know- politicians annoy me generally because they seem to live in a world of their own. Still- maybe as time goes on, we'll see things change. To be honest, I'm so uneducated on politics- I ought to keep my mouth shut really!

 

[Pluto]

Ideas and beliefs are a battleground. Who controls the media? Education? Even politicians, who 'coincidentally' side with the Christian lobby in the West? Nature and death are far more fundamental forces than whatever interpretations a given culture at a given time might overlay.

The question of suicide as a violation of nature is hard to answer. Our very society has drifted far from our hunter-gatherer origins and thus is itself an outlandish violation of nature. Everything and everyone has been modified to the point of perversion.

All previous cultures had to contend with end-of-life questions, though such peoples would rarely have had entire swaths of the population completely disenfranchised. 'Mercy killings' likely date back to prehistoric times. Modern laws opposing end-of-life freedom are one of many distortions of nature, as are many of the ridiculous circumstances that lead up to people wishing to exit in the first place.