Appreciate the religious/afterlife/god threads

[voltage268]

Hi, just wanted to show appreciation for the threads that discuss the tough idea of there being a hell/afterlife, and whether suicide could directly lead to some kind of eternal punishment for taking things into our own hands and cutting short this 'gift' of life, it's comforting to know I'm not alone wrestling with the idea of being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I imagine it's annoying for some users here, pure atheists especially to see threads about those who come from religious backgrounds considering the existence of a god after all this suffering, I myself am agnostic now but for the depressed mind expecting the worse, it's difficult to shake off the worst fears of jumping out the frying pan into the metaphorical and possibly literal fire. There are not many places on the internet you can discuss these kind of things so I appreciate this forum which has helped people feel not so alone despite the negative press who don't understand the therapeutic nature of sanctionedsuicide.

Going into it, why the hell no pun intended can't I shake off this fear, trying to use logic you would think an ever-loving god would understand and show mercy, and even be very sorry for all the pain, only an evil entity would give you a painful existence, not offer help or respite when asked/prayed/begged for, and then punish you for exhausting all other solutions and having to take things into your own hands. Truly sadistic if you spend two seconds thinking about it, something none of us signed up for. As if we're throwing away this 'gift' of life as being the ultimate slap in god's face; the game was rigged from the start. I read so many posts on here from compassionate and caring people, by face value they don't appear evil and ungrateful; whenever I see news articles reporting a suicide, the user comments from regular everyday people are always compassionate and caring, hoping the person rests in peace, if fallible humans can feel compassion for us, why do I still wrestle with the idea that god could exist and how this supposedly ever-loving god would judge me? Likely due to indoctrination and because my depressed mind expects the worst. It would be inifinitely kinder to not be created in the first place, as god by nature knows the future from the beginning.

If I was on fire, would it be insane or sane to jump into a pool of water, if we were on top of a burning building, would it be insane to jump off and possibly die because the heat was unbearable, would we be held responsible for throwing away the 'gift' of life? We're fucking burning every day, and through strength of will we drag ourselves through each one.

So thank you for these types of discussion, they don't make sense to the atheist, but I'm sure a good number found ourselves here after trying to live good, religious lives, or maybe even still try to live one. Appreciate if anyone feels the same or has any thoughts/different perspective.

 

[Makko]

The fear comes from getting stuck on a cartoonish definition of "hell". The discussions are usually divided into two camps: one that says afterlife would be basically be like normal life but with extra fire and horns, and the other that says there would be no afterlife at all. The parties can never agree because both of these alternatives fundamentally make very little sense.

 

[Goodbye710]

I spent a lot of time on the subject.

1. I no longer beloeve reincarnation to be true. We come here to to get greater love and stronger will generally speaking. But the idea that we try this again is not accurate. So we have to try the best we can in this life. Not to mention this life is suffering.

I believe we are born selfish but by living here and by learning we become selfless at the end of our life. Hopefully. But we don't try it again.

2. Life is like a balance scale. We definitely want to leave this world better than before we came into it. For everybody we encounter. Try to do no harm. Understanding this, some families suicide is contagious. Some family members the extreme pain that one goes through, that pain gets transferred to another friend or family member and may cause them to ctb. It's like someone else has to pay your bills in essence. Happens all the time. Why I say I'd rather be an addict or take up an adrenaline sport to distract myself or dropping out of society or whatever it takes so I don't pass the pain to someone else.

Or just being there for a friend or family members helps their life to a greater degree than we understand. We make their life better just by being in it. Kinda like how a pet will help us. They are just there for us. Sometimes this is enough of an accomplishment in life.

3. I don't believe anyone will judge our actions but only ourselves. We may feel remorseful because we didn't take all the opportunities to grow in this life. It's hard to see but as we get older, we mature as a soul more. Even though the pain we go through, with time, just being on this planet you can see how people mature and become a different person with time.

I think people are too hard on themselves in life. Trying to be perfect. Who cares if your peers are married or successful or whatever. If people look down on you. It's stupid. When you get old enough you'll realize that's a stupid race. Sometimes being alive and not becoming one of the bad people is enough. Throughout history many people isolated themselves and focused on their own personal growth through studying religious texts or whatever rather than being like the majority. This really is enough in life. The only thing I do in life is not to be a sh11ty person and when possible try to help. I think that's enough.

Not trying to talk anyone out of anything. I have my own problems. I think this life is all a game that we don't get to play again but that trying to see it to the end is the goal... if you can. If you cannot it's only you that judges a missed opportunity I guess you'd say but you'll see how far you got and how well you did and if you hurt anyone in the process. Everyone will still love you when you reunite with loved ones who have passed.

I think this is all why we have a deep feeling not to pass away or ctb. Something deep within us says being alive is good enough until we get to the point where it's no longer needed and an accident takes us away or a health condition or ctb with a peaceful feeling.

Hope that makes sense and answers your question.

 

[voltage268]

The fear comes from getting stuck on a cartoonish definition of "hell". The discussions are usually divided into two camps: one that says afterlife would be basically be like normal life but with extra fire and horns, and the other that says there would be no afterlife at all. The parties can never agree because both of these alternatives fundamentally make very little sense.

I definitely agree that the fire and brimstone idea of hell is so extreme as to be considered cartoonish, which helps in a way portray it as an absurdity; when I think about why I became religious as a child in the first place, the motivation was to avoid ending up there, as opposed to a healthier basis which would be based on being drawn into the faith by the goodness and love of god. Can you please elaborate on what these 2 camps are an alternative to, do you mean to the classic heaven and hell?

I spent a lot of time on the subject.

1. I no longer beloeve reincarnation to be true. We come here to to get greater love and stronger will generally speaking. But the idea that we try this again is not accurate. So we have to try the best we can in this life. Not to mention this life is suffering.

I believe we are born selfish but by living here and by learning we become selfless at the end of our life. Hopefully. But we don't try it again.

2. Life is like a balance scale. We definitely want to leave this world better than before we came into it. For everybody we encounter. Try to do no harm. Understanding this, some families suicide is contagious. Some family members the extreme pain that one goes through, that pain gets transferred to another friend or family member and may cause them to ctb. It's like someone else has to pay your bills in essence. Happens all the time. Why I say I'd rather be an addict or take up an adrenaline sport to distract myself or dropping out of society or whatever it takes so I don't pass the pain to someone else.

Or just being there for a friend or family members helps their life to a greater degree than we understand. We make their life better just by being in it. Kinda like how a pet will help us. They are just there for us. Sometimes this is enough of an accomplishment in life.

3. I don't believe anyone will judge our actions but only ourselves. We may feel remorseful because we didn't take all the opportunities to grow in this life. It's hard to see but as we get older, we mature as a soul more. Even though the pain we go through, with time, just being on this planet you can see how people mature and become a different person with time.

I think people are too hard on themselves in life. Trying to be perfect. Who cares if your peers are married or successful or whatever. If people look down on you. It's stupid. When you get old enough you'll realize that's a stupid race. Sometimes being alive and not becoming one of the bad people is enough. Throughout history many people isolated themselves and focused on their own personal growth through studying religious texts or whatever rather than being like the majority. This really is enough in life. The only thing I do in life is not to be a sh11ty person and when possible try to help. I think that's enough.

Not trying to talk anyone out of anything. I have my own problems. I think this life is all a game that we don't get to play again but that trying to see it to the end is the goal... if you can. If you cannot it's only you that judges a missed opportunity I guess you'd say but you'll see how far you got and how well you did and if you hurt anyone in the process. Everyone will still love you when you reunite with loved ones who have passed.

I think this is all why we have a deep feeling not to pass away or ctb. Something deep within us says being alive is good enough until we get to the point where it's no longer needed and an accident takes us away or a health condition or ctb with a peaceful feeling.

Hope that makes sense and answers your question.

I appreciate your thoughts but I think you're answering a different question, mine was based on a fear of the possible consequences of suicide from an afterlife standpoint, rather than why we intrinsically want to stay alive.

 

[Goodbye710]

I definitely agree that the fire and brimstone idea of hell is so extreme as to be considered cartoonish, which helps in a way portray it as an absurdity; when I think about why I became religious as a child in the first place, the motivation was to avoid ending up there, as opposed to a healthier basis which would be based on being drawn into the faith by the goodness and love of god. Can you please elaborate on what these 2 camps are an alternative to, do you mean to the classic heaven and hell?


I appreciate your thoughts but I think you're answering a different question, mine was based on a fear of the possible consequences of suicide from an afterlife standpoint, rather than why we intrinsically want to stay alive.

I understand. No problem. Was trying to explain the consequences. But then to explain consequences it will always sound pro life info that's why few ever talk in depth on the subject. The one's that do it becomes oversimplified in either direction. Anyway, just trying to give an understanding because there is lots of angles to the question. Maybe I made it to complicated though. I hope someone here can answer it better than I can.

 

[voltage268]

I understand. No problem. Was trying to explain the consequences. But then to explain consequences it will always sound pro life info that's why few ever talk in depth on the subject. The one's that do it becomes oversimplified in either direction. Anyway, just trying to give an understanding because there is lots of angles to the question. Maybe I made it to complicated though. I hope someone here can answer it better than I can.

I appreciate the response anyway dude, I don't think there's any simple answer anyway, more of a discussion, an answer to my own question would be those who've said in other threads that if there is a god, he would be merciful if someone ctb, in fact I'm surprised to see a number of christians on here who still follow their faith and still show confidence to ctb. Another answer would be that suicide being an unpardonable sin originated as a construct from the catholic church many years ago to try and deter people from trying to get to heaven quicker and escape the pains of this life. Just wanted to explore where this deep fear of judgement from god over suicide comes from.

 

[Goodbye710]

I appreciate the response anyway dude, I don't think there's any simple answer anyway, more of a discussion, an answer to my own question would be those who've said in other threads that if there is a god, he would be merciful if someone ctb, in fact I'm surprised to see a number of christians on here who still follow their faith and still show confidence to ctb. Another answer would be that suicide being an unpardonable sin originated as a construct from the catholic church many years ago to try and deter people from trying to get to heaven quicker and escape the pains of this life. Just wanted to explore where this deep fear of judgement from god over suicide comes from.

The church did that IMO because it's not good in many cases. They have responsibilities in life is what they are thinking and the domino effect. But you have to remember didn't Jesus and his disciples ctb for a greater good. They at any time could have walked away and lived.

That's what I was meaning about trying to explain things become oversimplified.

I know in the past in India it was ok to go through starvation if their old and their responsibilities are done with.

In Tibet, they study death and some will basically meditate and pass away with time.

Buddha mentioned about pain and if nobody there to look after you being reasons while at the same time trying to discourage.

A greek philosopher talked about this and basically said the soul knows if it will want to based on it's circumstance. I can only assume this is partly SI. You hear about some old people say they've lived long enough and it's time to go. Some will pass away from natural causes while others by their own hand.

But again the other side of why we go through this experience of suffering and the consequences of quitting this early I was trying to explain above. Basically just being here gives us a bigger heart and a stronger will is very short answer. The deep fear and partly SI is our soul knows it will miss out on this chance in my opinion. As well as passing on the pain, IMO and similar issues.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Escapee]

I appreciate the response anyway dude, I don't think there's any simple answer anyway, more of a discussion, an answer to my own question would be those who've said in other threads that if there is a god, he would be merciful if someone ctb, in fact I'm surprised to see a number of christians on here who still follow their faith and still show confidence to ctb. Another answer would be that suicide being an unpardonable sin originated as a construct from the catholic church many years ago to try and deter people from trying to get to heaven quicker and escape the pains of this life. Just wanted to explore where this deep fear of judgement from god over suicide comes from.

The idea Suicide is unpardonable is not biblical. Any believer of God need to know this. My belief is suicide May not even be a sin depending on the reason you committed suicide. But it is still up to God to say that. But God is not sadist to condemn someone who committed suicide due to unbearable suffering. That is not the God I know. For me and according to the bible people only judged for their denying God. And he is still compassionate and merciful in his judgment. I am saying this because I met God once in my dream and saw what kind of God he is. He is not anything like some religious people or atheists say he is. God is someone it is impossible to fall in love with. You only know that if he reveals himself to you.