Help Anyone want to discuss possible ideas / plans for walking the line between seeking professional help and lying to not risk ending up in a ward ?

[Unsure and alone]

So pretty much what the title says.

I have an upcoming virtual visit with a new psychiatrist for insomnia and depression.
Mostly insomnia.

I've already totally lied on the intake form and virtual intake meeting about the self harm and suicidal ideation questions.

That said.
I don't get a good feeling about this meeting so far.

Office staff unhelpful and , or uncaring in my difficulty doing the form in the first place.
( it's stupid / frustrating how depression can make some things harder at times.
It took me a week to do it because of that )

Not thrilled about me asking what to expect next questions.

Making me follow up with getting the appointment with the psychiatrist scheduled instead of them following up with me as they were supposed too.

It's been almost 2 months since I was referred to a psychiatrist for the insomnia.
Not since I started having trouble.
Other than the taking a week to do the one form .
All of the other delays have been on their end.


So how much is safe to say ?

Should I ask for more help ?

How would I maintain my freedom ?

I do want help or at least wish it didn't have to go this way.

I just also would prefer to make an attempt than end up in a ward again.

Prefer to end it than to lose my freedom of choice.
I often think it's too late for me now .

It's so ironic that if it weren't for trust issues.
It might not have gotten this bad.
I might not have gone this far towards suicide.
But I have.

I function with two places at odds with each other.
A ... I'm blanking on the word at the moment.
It means two opposite things that are true at the same time.

I'm just working with let's try for better while I'm still around.
Who knows maybe enough could change that I wouldn't want to end it anymore.


I'm working with being ready to die at any point.

I don't have a timeline.
Well sort of.
More a pressure by when my last goal / dream is . A consideration based on that time, than a I'm going to kill myself on X date .

I think I'm possibly a unique case in the sense that I have come to the understanding that for me when and if depends more on the feeling than an iron clad decision of X date.


So any and all thoughts are welcome.

 

[scottyy]

From my experience these professionals are legally bound to tell authorities if you plan on hurting yourself or others. So don't admit if you plan on hurting yourself or others if and when they ask. Thats about it.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

What scottyy said. Don't even say anything if your plans are in the future (I speak from experience here).

 

[NewtoEarth]

I don't know how to go about this either. I feel like there's no way to talk about it without lying simply to avoid the kneejerk response of getting wrapped up and put in a box. :(
I'm sorry you've been struggling with the appointment process, I feel that often also. It feels so hostile trying to get help sometimes, makes me want to not get it at all. You've honestly achieved lots of progress by initiating it though! I am proud of you :)

I find myself looking in safer, "unprofessional" environments, simply because of the mandated reporting thing. I feel more heard and less dissected when I talk to non-mandatory reporters. I suppose, just toe the line of talking about your "ideation," while trying to assure the person that you are in fully in control and will not act? Maybe they can still assist if you dance around the real plans.

 

[scottyy]

I also want to say this. I find the receptionist and waiting area to be the most hostile place. And some nurses are too. Honestly I act like a robot around them, just to get by them. But once you get to a real doctor or real therapist, they can be very understanding, and as long as you follow NewToEarth's advice; to make it sound like you have some dark thoughts but you won't ever act on them, but yet admit that you struggle with them sometimes, the good ones won't immediately go to throwing you away into a hospital or something. They understand and don't want to do that to a person just because they admit they're struggling. But be very careful.

 

[lita-lassi]

are you doing conventional talk therapy appointments? if its a psychiatrist theyre mainly going to be interested in medication unless youre going with someone who does a full length talk session each time as well. theyre going to mainly be wanting to know how your symptoms the meds are meant to be treating are going

 

[Unsure and alone]

To everyone. I'm reading your replies and grateful for them but mostly unable to respond right now.

I'm wandering the forum mostly just reading trying to avoid thoughts too dark for me to handle right now.
I will try to reply soon though.

are you doing conventional talk therapy appointments? if its a psychiatrist theyre mainly going to be interested in medication unless youre going with someone who does a full length talk session each time as well. theyre going to mainly be wanting to know how your symptoms the meds are meant to be treating are going

No. I used to see a counselor before everything got this bad .

But it ended because of a move .

 

[Unsure and alone]

Well I'm seriously not functioning very well right now.

But I'll try and reply anyway.
Doing a little bit better than yesterday but still rather bad at the moment.

How do you make up a story ?
Something that gets help but doesn't take control away ?
That seems to take more creativity than I've got right now.
Any examples or ideas ?

Because I definitely agree it's a stupid idea to sum up my current truth with.

I have thoughts of suicide.
I have means .
Granted not everything recommended but enough to make a solid attempt anyway .
I have been laying in bed all damn day yesterday trying to avoid the thoughts saying why not now ?
Because I don't have anything to offer the little part saying not yet.
No energy to focus on about a month left to my last dream / goal
And I made enough progress towards planning some of it .
That it is possible.
Maybe not easy.
Not yet. But very possible.

So can I still make it that long or am I almost ready to end it ?

I don't know the answer.

I only know when I reached out I didn't find help to get out of this place so dark.
I didn't find a reason that pulled me in and said okay definitely holding out for that.


I didn't admit these thoughts before reaching this point. Even though I saw them getting worse because of risk.

Risk and lack of energy to fight for help.
That seems to be the biggest barriers to getting help.

Who do you turn to when you are so alone ?
The ones nearest me are the ones I've most got to hide it from.

The ones I'd most open up too.
Are the ones I can't reach , or it's no longer okay to admit some of it because they would mean well but probably actually deal the killing blow in their attempts to get me help.

They are physically far away.
So options like 988 or trying to be able to contact the people I most don't want involved in my mental health would be their only options if they got too worried about me.

Which would be an absolute disaster in my opinion so I stopped saying as much.

it's mostly extremely damn lonely around here .
thankfully my pets do help.
Sometimes I get out and am social.
I'm supposed to Tonight.
don't know if I'm able to yet .

other times I go long periods of time only going out pretty much just for doctor appointments and errands.

I never truly restarted after the move.

 

[spiritsale]

So pretty much what the title says.

I have an upcoming virtual visit with a new psychiatrist for insomnia and depression.
Mostly insomnia.

I've already totally lied on the intake form and virtual intake meeting about the self harm and suicidal ideation questions.

That said.
I don't get a good feeling about this meeting so far.

Office staff unhelpful and , or uncaring in my difficulty doing the form in the first place.
( it's stupid / frustrating how depression can make some things harder at times.
It took me a week to do it because of that )

Not thrilled about me asking what to expect next questions.

Making me follow up with getting the appointment with the psychiatrist scheduled instead of them following up with me as they were supposed too.

It's been almost 2 months since I was referred to a psychiatrist for the insomnia.
Not since I started having trouble.
Other than the taking a week to do the one form .
All of the other delays have been on their end.


So how much is safe to say ?

Should I ask for more help ?

How would I maintain my freedom ?

I do want help or at least wish it didn't have to go this way.

I just also would prefer to make an attempt than end up in a ward again.

Prefer to end it than to lose my freedom of choice.
I often think it's too late for me now .

It's so ironic that if it weren't for trust issues.
It might not have gotten this bad.
I might not have gone this far towards suicide.
But I have.

I function with two places at odds with each other.
A ... I'm blanking on the word at the moment.
It means two opposite things that are true at the same time.

I'm just working with let's try for better while I'm still around.
Who knows maybe enough could change that I wouldn't want to end it anymore.


I'm working with being ready to die at any point.

I don't have a timeline.
Well sort of.
More a pressure by when my last goal / dream is . A consideration based on that time, than a I'm going to kill myself on X date .

I think I'm possibly a unique case in the sense that I have come to the understanding that for me when and if depends more on the feeling than an iron clad decision of X date.


So any and all thoughts are welcome.

In terms of not getting put on a hold atleast in the US you need to try to present calm if you end up in the ED, if asked if you've ever attempted suicide say no or have a plan and might act on it always deny. Be able to provide a "safety plan" of what you can do to once you get home, it's you're choice if you want to follow through with the aftercare help they provide but if you think at all it might help might as well give it a shot, in any case you'll figure out if you really want to ctb.

 

[Unsure and alone]

In terms of not getting put on a hold atleast in the US you need to try to present calm if you end up in the ED, if asked if you've ever attempted suicide say no or have a plan and might act on it always deny. Be able to provide a "safety plan" of what you can do to once you get home, it's you're choice if you want to follow through with the aftercare help they provide but if you think at all it might help might as well give it a shot, in any case you'll figure out if you really want to ctb.

Sounds like good advice.
Thanks.
Edit .
I do have a CTB plan .
It's hard lately.

 

[Unsure and alone]

Well update.
I found out about some policies at the larger system. That means I can't risk being more open with the psychiatrist even if they seem decent.
It also means no attempt at counseling for at least 2 months.

So this policy would essentially mean anything shared in any such counseling could be seen by any and all of my other doctors.

Like Hell no. Just absolutely no.


It's extremely unlikely I could be seen at a place without that policy with my current insurance covers .
But because of other factors it will likely be two months before I could switch without messing something else up and thus causing a different form of suffering.


So who knows what the cards hold ?

 

[Alatus_Nemeseos]

From experience from someone who has been hospitalized and then a time where a narrowly escaped it.

Really the key words are if you have plans on harming yourself or if you not able to keep yourself safe. These are the key words you need to very careful about saying and should consider avoiding.

For me I can say I feel suicidal I think about suicidal I've even said I think about a plan but I say I can't/act on it and you can be specific why. Im afraid of heights so I wouldn't jump off a place I wouldn't hang myself because of the noise my body would makes would attract attention, I dont want my family finding me

But the balancing act is saying how you're really struggling to cope so you don't know how long you can hold on to the points that the things that are preventing you may not forever. For me this is the balancing act that adds pressure that you need intervention and help but not to be hospitalized/sectioned

actually attempting suicide is the quickest way to get hospitalized or worst sectioned. If you ever do that a classic overdose where you say it's a cry for help but you don't want to kill yourself can help you get seen by a crisis team but not end up hospitalized.

But any legitimate attempt to kill yourself and saying the words I can't keep myself save can end up in hospital again these are my anidotal experiences. Literally this week I've said I wanted to get sodium nitrite to kill myself which raises a big alarm bell but I avoided mentioning I already ordered it. Instead I downplayed it and said if I did it'll get caught in customs and just get a welfare check. Plus I'm useless with bitcoin so I couldn't get some anyway.

It's really tricky ultimately as you say the balance is you need to sell yourself that are you in crisis and in help but not so dangerous that you'll end up sectioned and hospitalized and the big take away is "I can keep myself save for tonight"

Good luck and I sincerely hope you're able to succeed in your recovery <3

 

[Young.Werther]

I don't know about the counseling situation, but I would not recommend 988. I have never had a good experience with them, although thankfully never had the cops called on me from 988. I have heard they will do that (but not 100% sure).

 

[Unsure and alone]

I don't know about the counseling situation, but I would not recommend 988. I have never had a good experience with them, although thankfully never had the cops called on me from 988. I have heard they will do that (but not 100% sure).

Yeah that's very hit or miss as to if you will get someone who even cares let alone can understand.

But sometimes...

Sometimes it can be extremely helpful.

Other times it's a I wish hadn't because this made it worse.
Well only about 10 minutes before my appointment with the psychiatrist.

I'm thinking about everything said here .

Maybe I'll just keep it to the insomnia and a little bit of vague I'm more depressed.

See how that goes first .

Several good things happened but the excitement and hope is so fleeting.

It's frustrating.

I want out of the way the way it all feels.

I'm struggling so much with the physical weight of the suicidal thoughts and feelings.

 

[Unsure and alone]

Well that definitely good have gone better.
At least it was okay though.

what ended up happening was more my acting emotionless .

With a little bit of hostility.
I felt on the defensive fairly fast into it.
I shouldn't have felt that so quickly.
But I'm on edge already.
The panic attack on the way to where I chose to handle the virtual visit definitely didn't help.

I semi lied by saying I might be cranky from lack of sleep.
To help cover that.

Truth is I'm feeling defensive when you ask about my life and I know you don't care.

Truth is it's irrelevant to you who I live with and what my hobbies are.
And I'm feeling a little bit hostile about you expecting me to just let you in.

I don't know you at all.

Also I don't want to think about that at the moment because then I'd have to think about how fast the hope from good faded just yesterday.

And I definitely don't want to let you in there.

Cause I might cry.

I also didn't get asked very much about the symptoms of sleep problems.

Didn't regroup mentally enough to try and share some of it .


Something just kept making me feel in a corner.

I am going to be on an additional med for sleep.
Which is very good.

I am also very overtired .
I hit the critical lack of sleep yet again recently.
I'm making small mistakes from this fatigue.

The entire visit was only 14 minutes even with a few quickly resolved technical issues.

It just felt like a test instead of a place to help.

I wish I had felt like I could ask more about the med prescribed.
But I didn't.

About why this med over that med ?
The APRN changed her mind about which med part way through.
About what are the other options ?
I wanted to know why she changed her mind.


I felt like my asking are there any possible side affects and how long does it make you sleep ?
were mostly only technically answered.
Very much a well looks like I'll have to ask the Internet that .

It's odd but also helpful to see how you look in the video call.
That blank expression .
Even though I am feeling.

Actually seeing the defensive measure in action.
It's kind of shocking.
Especially to that degree.

I'm not used to that .

 

[Young.Werther]

Just something I noticed: your posts seem to have a poetic rhythm to them. Not in a distracting way, but it's kind of nice.

Anyways, sorry that the appointment didn't go how you wanted. It sounds bad, but I've basically given up on the mental health system. Like you pointed out, it's very transactional — they don't care. I don't even think them not caring is the problem though. It's that they pretend and take your money despite not helping. I think crying myself to sleep sometimes. Sort of like flushing out the emotions (at least for a while).

Sorry sort of pessimistic for the recovery section. In any case I hope you find some peace

 

[Unsure and alone]

Just something I noticed: your posts seem to have a poetic rhythm to them. Not in a distracting way, but it's kind of nice.

Thanks.
Gave me something to half smile about for a minute.

Anyways, sorry that the appointment didn't go how you wanted. It sounds bad, but I've basically given up on the mental health system. Like you pointed out, it's very transactional — they don't care. I don't even think them not caring is the problem though. It's that they pretend and take your money despite not helping. I think crying myself to sleep sometimes. Sort of like flushing out the emotions (at least for a while).

It's hard to find good doctors. I am noticing most of the good ones I've found in this area are APRNs I've found 3 good ones so far.

Sorry sort of pessimistic for the recovery section. In any case I hope you find some peace

I'm sorry it's been rough for you.
I'm sending Hugs.


We would probably all be in a lot of trouble if posting in the recovery section meant hiding the rough times.

Tonights rough.
I'm considering doing something very stupid right now.