Anyone here had ECT(electroconvulsive therapy)?

[Menschenmühle]

Does anyone here have experience with it? I've gone through five sessions, and frankly the only thing it changed is having more headaches. I've also heard that it can impair cognitive function (lower IQ), is that true?

 

[Dubito]

I had it two years ago. The only sideeffect was the lost of the shortterm memory. I couldn't remember things short before or during the three weeks. But that wasn't too bad. Lower iq, i think, is not really possible. Maybe shortly after when you wake up for some time because of the anesthesia;)
For some people it's a really help full thing. I couldn't really benefit from it unfortunatly.

 

[heavyeyes]

Personally I've never had it done because I'm scared of the side effects. I had a friend who did and they lost significant parts of their memory. They couldn't remember how we became friends all those years ago. They also thought I was someone else for a while.

 

[GreenTree]

I had it done. Waste of time. Nothing changed. Why can't those incharge let us die. I had no memory loss. Only when first woke up after treatment rook about 10 seconds to figure out where I was. Give it a go. Nothing to lose. Never helped me though.

 

[Tapir]

It is incredibly helpful for some people, but it was not helpful for me.

I had about 15 bi-temporal sessions with ketamine as the anesthetic with no real positive effects. I did have headaches when I was getting treatment and some increased confusion regarding some things I was never great at to start with (the difference between left and right, remembering the names of people I don't know well) which resolved after I stopped the treatments. I had these 7 years ago and I have noticed that there are some very minor things that happened to me during that time that I do not remember - for example, I have no memory of a movie that I went to with a friend. I told him recently that I had never seen that movie and he assured me we had seen it together.

I think it is a relatively safe procedure and at least worth trying if you are in extreme distress (I certainly was.)
I'm sorry to hear it does not seem to be helping you and I hope you can find something that does help.

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

I had 21 sessions. Initially thought I had some improvement but I guess that was just getting hypomanic. It didn't help much in the long run and certainly not worth the side effects. I had short term memory problems and also problems with autobiographical memory that were pretty significant. I tried to work while doing maintenance treatments but lost my job and now on disability. It was too tough to continue my career at all. I was so cognitively slow, everything was in my mind and out so quick, couldn't retain anything, barely could read. Some of those things have gotten slightly better, but I think that's mainly because I'm at home 24/7 and not having the demands of a job. I did it when actively suicidal as a last resort and sure I'm still alive but after 6 months of ect treatments I quit because of side effects and lack of improvement and decided to buy N and SN.

 

[katagiri83]

Hi @Tapir , did you experience any partial therapeutic / positive effect at all?

 

[jodes2]

Not had it, my gf doesn't want me to do it because of the memory loss. I doubt it would help me, no meds in 25 years have so why would ECT? I dunno.

 

[Barteljaap]

Electroconvulsive therapy is quite archaic. I've done a lot of research on neurostimulation and was going to do my final year college project on it (but I'm probably going to end up failing college and/or killing myself). There are far less violent ways of treating depression such as Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation or Cranial Electrotherapy Stimulation. I was recently talking to someone who was using the latter for anxiety/depression and they told me it was helping them. These methods only give you a slight tingling sensation and after several sessions they supposedly rewire your brain.

Here's a success story: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10979789/Ruby-Wax-claims-cured-depression-treatments-use-magnets-pound-brain.html?adobe_mc=TS=1656936145

Obviously doesn't work for everyone, but I would encourage people to look into it.

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

Not had it, my gf doesn't want me to do it because of the memory loss. I doubt it would help me, no meds in 25 years have so why would ECT? I dunno.

I did see it help a lot of people but I think you have to be someone who responds to minimal treatments (6-12) to keep the side effects low. Some people do a short course and never repeat it. Some people repeat the short courses at times throughout life. Some people establish a maintenance schedule that's not built by any evidence based guidance really. Everyone gets short term memory loss to some degree because they do it under general anesthesia but it's the long term, more permanent memory loss that I think happens more frequently with an increasing number of treatments. Also, probably depends on who performs the treatments, their experience, location, etc.

Electroconvulsive therapy is quite archaic. I've done a lot of research on neurostimulation and was going to do my final year college project on it (but I'm probably going to end up failing college and/or killing myself). There are far less violent ways of treating depression such as Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation or even Cranial Electrotherapy Stimulation. I was recently talking to someone who was using the latter for anxiety/depression and they told me it was helping them. These methods only give you a slight tingling sensation and after several sessions they supposedly rewire your brain.

Here's a success story: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-10979789/Ruby-Wax-claims-cured-depression-treatments-use-magnets-pound-brain.html?adobe_mc=TS=1656936145

Obviously doesn't work for everyone, but I would encourage people to look into it.

I did TMS for two weeks then had a seizure during a tms treatment, got taken by ambulance from the tms center and ended up in an emergency room. Cost me $8,000

 

[jodes2]

I did see it help a lot of people but I think you have to be someone who responds to minimal treatments (6-12) to keep the side effects low. Some people do a short course and never repeat it. Some people repeat the short courses at times throughout life. Some people establish a maintenance schedule that's not built by any evidence based guidance really. Everyone gets short term memory loss to some degree because they do it under general anesthesia but it's the long term, more permanent memory loss that I think happens more frequently with an increasing number of treatments. Also, probably depends on who performs the treatments, their experience, location, etc.

I did TMS for two weeks then had a seizure during a tms treatment, got taken by ambulance from the tms center and ended up in an emergency room. Cost me $8,000

Ouch, 8k for a little visit to the ER. USA?

 

[socrates]

Personally I've never had it done because I'm scared of the side effects. I had a friend who did and they lost significant parts of their memory. They couldn't remember how we became friends all those years ago. They also thought I was someone else for a while.

Wow, that's terrifying! I can see why you don't want to try it

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

Ouch, 8k for a little visit to the ER. USA?

USA.. you know it. Just what you need when you're severely depressed!!

 

[willitpass]

i had 12 sessions 6.5 years ago. it didn't change anything for better or worse. i didn't have any memory problems but i was still pretty young at the time. i don't remember headaches either. my only side effect was that i couldn't drink water on days that i had it because it would feel very very strange in my mouth, i don't even know how to describe it. but it was such a strange sensation that i would refuse to drink anything but juice and milk on ect days

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

i had 12 sessions 6.5 years ago. it didn't change anything for better or worse. i didn't have any memory problems but i was still pretty young at the time. i don't remember headaches either. my only side effect was that i couldn't drink water on days that i had it because it would feel very very strange in my mouth, i don't even know how to describe it. but it was such a strange sensation that i would refuse to drink anything but juice and milk on ect days

Could be the medication the anesthesiologist gives to control your secretions during the procedure possibly. They purposely dry out your mouth and it's like a desert. I would go home and have a hard time for awhile with solid food because I'd have so little saliva in my mouth it was like choking on everything but liquids.

 

[fairy_slime]

I did ECT between 2017-2018

I can't remember how many bilateral treatments I had, I remember going 3x a week, or why I went through so many, but what I do know is that I lost practically all of my autobiographical memory. Especially 2010-2017. It has ruined my life. No one understands, I've forgotten tons of people who I knew well. Oftentimes I have to disclose to people I'm amnesic, but don't disclose the real reason why unless we've become close and they're trustworthy - even then, it freaks people out.

I think it mightve worked, temporarily, I forgot. But I have tried to CTB quite a few times since then, and I am here now, so I wouldn't recommend it. Not worth the brain damage. I was studying life sciences and now I can harly retain any information.

 

[noaccount]

Could be the medication the anesthesiologist gives to control your secretions during the procedure possibly. They purposely dry out your mouth and it's like a desert. I would go home and have a hard time for awhile with solid food because I'd have so little saliva in my mouth it was like choking on everything but liquids.

God I just imagine how awful that must be, especially people who never consented to ECT in the first place but are forced into it, like:

A legal battle Charles Helmer of Minnesota had to fight because he was being forced into ECT:

ALERT: PROTECT CHARLES HELMER FROM ONGOING, FORCED ELECTRO-SHOCK IN MN - Mad In America
From Mindfreedom: Please help us protect 22-year-old Charles Helmer by taking one or more actions before Friday!

Ray Sandford forced to undergo ECT which took a community of disability rights activists a very long time to stop:

Ray Gateway: Campaign Ended Forced Outpatient Electroshock of Ray Sandford — MFIPortal
Ray Sandford is a 55-year-old Minnesota citizen who was receiving ongoing involuntary outpatient electroshock. He was court-ordered to leave his home regularly to receive this human rights violation. Ray has WON! Here is your gateway to news and background on the MindFreedom campaign to support...

Reflecting Back on a Campaign to Stop Forced, Outpatient Electroshock
Remember, on April 15, 2015 Ray will celebrate year number six without forced ECT.

Court forced Connecticut man into electric shock:

Involuntary shock therapy court-ordered for Connecticut man | New England Psychologist
This past spring, a probate court ordered a 26-year-old man in Connecticut to undergo electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) and involuntary medication at Yale New Haven Hospital. The man, identified only as John Doe, secured the Connecticut Legal Rights Project (CLRP) for his defense in
www.nepsy.com

Connecticut hospitals still allowed to use ECT without consent:

Psychiatric Hospitals Can Still Force Patients to Accept Shock Treatment. One Connecticut Patient Has Been Shocked 500 Times in Five Years.

Simone D. sues New York State for forcing her to undergo ECT:

https://digitalcommons.nyls.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1459&context=nyls_law_review

Glen K. forcibly shocked in New York state hospital:

VICTORY: Forced Electroshock of Glen K. in a New York Psychiatric Institution Halted! — MFIPortal
Within 48 hours of the launch of a MindFreedom Alert Campaign, the Attorney General for New York announced that Glen K. will receive no more forced electroshock under his court order. Rockland Psychiatric Center was giving involuntary electroshock over and against Glen's expressed wishes...

mindfreedom.org

University of Flordia hospital assault patient and force into ECT, long legal battle before this stops happening to him regularly

Advocates demand change following forced shock therapy case at Shands - The Independent Florida Alligator [/H3]
A Shands psychiatric patient was cornered by staff, shocked by force and left with lasting memory damage.

Shield Alert Update: The forced shocking of Brian Henley has been suspended! Hold off writing letters for now! - MindFreedom International (MFI)

mindfreedom.org

Adults under guardianship or ruled incompetent forced into ECT in Michigan:

https://www.healthyplace.com/depression/articles/involuntary-and-illegal-electroshock-in-michigan

Archived version of NPR report on Illinois doctors petitioning court to force octogenerian into ECT:

Octogenarian May Be Forced to Undergo Shock Treatment

California state government policy paper on when the state will sentence people to non-consensual ECT:

https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/Documents/DHCS_Handbook_English.pdf

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

God I just imagine how awful that must be, especially people who never consented to ECT in the first place but are forced into it, like:

A legal battle Charles Helmer of Minnesota had to fight because he was being forced into ECT:

ALERT: PROTECT CHARLES HELMER FROM ONGOING, FORCED ELECTRO-SHOCK IN MN - Mad In America
From Mindfreedom: Please help us protect 22-year-old Charles Helmer by taking one or more actions before Friday!

Ray Sandford forced to undergo ECT which took a community of disability rights activists a very long time to stop:

Ray Gateway: Campaign Ended Forced Outpatient Electroshock of Ray Sandford — MFIPortal
Ray Sandford is a 55-year-old Minnesota citizen who was receiving ongoing involuntary outpatient electroshock. He was court-ordered to leave his home regularly to receive this human rights violation. Ray has WON! Here is your gateway to news and background on the MindFreedom campaign to support...

Reflecting Back on a Campaign to Stop Forced, Outpatient Electroshock
Remember, on April 15, 2015 Ray will celebrate year number six without forced ECT.

Court forced Connecticut man into electric shock:

Involuntary shock therapy court-ordered for Connecticut man | New England Psychologist
This past spring, a probate court ordered a 26-year-old man in Connecticut to undergo electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) and involuntary medication at Yale New Haven Hospital. The man, identified only as John Doe, secured the Connecticut Legal Rights Project (CLRP) for his defense in
www.nepsy.com

Connecticut hospitals still allowed to use ECT without consent:

Psychiatric Hospitals Can Still Force Patients to Accept Shock Treatment. One Connecticut Patient Has Been Shocked 500 Times in Five Years.

Simone D. sues New York State for forcing her to undergo ECT:

https://digitalcommons.nyls.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1459&context=nyls_law_review

Glen K. forcibly shocked in New York state hospital:

VICTORY: Forced Electroshock of Glen K. in a New York Psychiatric Institution Halted! — MFIPortal
Within 48 hours of the launch of a MindFreedom Alert Campaign, the Attorney General for New York announced that Glen K. will receive no more forced electroshock under his court order. Rockland Psychiatric Center was giving involuntary electroshock over and against Glen's expressed wishes...

mindfreedom.org

University of Flordia hospital assault patient and force into ECT, long legal battle before this stops happening to him regularly

Advocates demand change following forced shock therapy case at Shands - The Independent Florida Alligator [/H3]
A Shands psychiatric patient was cornered by staff, shocked by force and left with lasting memory damage.

Shield Alert Update: The forced shocking of Brian Henley has been suspended! Hold off writing letters for now! - MindFreedom International (MFI)

mindfreedom.org

Adults under guardianship or ruled incompetent forced into ECT in Michigan:

https://www.healthyplace.com/depression/articles/involuntary-and-illegal-electroshock-in-michigan

Archived version of NPR report on Illinois doctors petitioning court to force octogenerian into ECT:

Octogenarian May Be Forced to Undergo Shock Treatment

California state government policy paper on when the state will sentence people to non-consensual ECT:

https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/Documents/DHCS_Handbook_English.pdf

Congrats, as you continue to reply over and over again with this same post to me as usual, for your gold medal in the trauma olympics!!

 

[noaccount]

Just making sure you knew that this was happening, since you seemed not to know, and asked for evidence of it happening.

By the way - since you're going around saying you faced 'backlash' for talking about seeing people recover from suicidality after therapy - that's not what people pushed back on your ideas over, it was because people on this pro-choice forum talked about the damage done by medical abuse, and you replied by starting a whole new thread asking why they were "bashing" medical professionals so much. That's not backlash against having seen people benefit from therapy, that's pushback on reframing a conversation about human rights violations as "bashing."

 

[Mtnwildflowers]

Just making sure you knew that this was happening, since you seemed not to know, and asked for evidence of it happening.

By the way - since you're going around saying you faced 'backlash' for talking about seeing people recover from suicidality after therapy - that's not what people pushed back on your ideas over, it was because people on this pro-choice forum talked about the damage done by medical abuse, and you replied by starting a whole new thread asking why they were "bashing" medical professionals so much. That's not backlash against having seen people benefit from therapy, that's pushback on reframing a conversation about human rights violations as "bashing."

Yes which I replied to this almost a year ago and took your post into consideration.

Dude drop it with me. This obsession is beyond weird to continue with me for so long. I told you to leave me alone and reported you over and over and you still didn't get it. That was a YEAR ago. Move on and stop comparing peoples trauma and trying to make them feel like theirs isn't valid because someone else's is "worse". When people tell you to leave them alone, be mature enough about it to do that instead of continuing to reply with the same post over and over for a YEAR. So damn disrespectful yet you want to call everyone else out for being disrespectful. Look in the mirror.

 

[Wannagonow]

I did ECT 3x week for 3 weeks. Went home and tried to ctb so they sent me back for 3 more weeks of it. I feel it affected my memory and it also made me feel "foggy" for awhile. Cost me a fortune. This was about 15 years ago. Although I'm very determined to ctb, I might consider TMS or Ketamine. Unfortunately my insurance doesn't cover either. So here I am.

 

[Tapir]

Hi @Tapir , did you experience any partial therapeutic / positive effect at all?

I'm sorry this took me a while to respond to.

In the last year I have actually found a medicine that has been incredibly beneficial to me. So compared to that, no, the ECT was not helpful.

But at that time, doing a big, involved, time and energy consuming treatment that needed lots of planning and appointments where all the doctors and nurses and my friends were convinced that it was possible for me to get better and that I would not always be paralyzed by my depression was, I think, positive. It really gave me something to focus on besides for my depression and something to spend my energy on besides for arranging my own death. And that did lift my depression a little bit. It allowed me to get just enough breathing room to be able to change some things in my life. And looking back, that was positive and therapeutic, (while it was not the cure that I had hoped for at the time.)
I hope that could answer your question. If you have other questions I would try to answer them, too. (Hopefully a little bit quicker.)

 

[Pomegranate]

Currently, I'm doing ECT. Today is my 17th session, and as of yet, it hasn't helped me much. I still feel really sad, moody, and little motivated to do what I want. As with nearly everyone else, my memory has been impacted. Sometimes, I forget factual informational, so things like what N is slip out of my mind. Other times, I forget how things occurred, or how something is the way it is. I'm not sure if after ECT, my memory will return strong. When it comes to other side effects, such as nausea, I originally had it, but I told my doctors about it, so they added Zofran (ondansetron) to my intravenous fluids, so now I don't complain much about nausea.

I do understand that ECT has worked out well for many, many people. For me, though, after 17 sessions, I must admit it has done very little. I remain open to things drastically changing in the remaining four ECT sessions. But it feels like ECT is going to join the ranks of the dozens of medications, esketamine, and transcranial magnetic stimulation is not being of great help to me.