Yes, not the main reason, but one reason among many. Feels impossible to dig out of.
Old thread but this is significantly contributing to my suicidal wishes as well. Even more so because it's not school debt, but medical and credit card debt from never having health insurance or making enough money to ever make ends meet for so long that by the time I could, it was going to take more effort than I could summon to get out of it. It's awful, awful, awful. My parents are wealthy and they think people with debt are bad people, should go to jail like in the old days. It's awful.
FTL.Wanderer
Enlightened
- May 31, 2018
- 1,782
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS!!!!! When my ex-business partner defrauded me of my life savings, he also maxed out all our company credit cards (over $100K) and refused to pay his share of our business taxes, essentially doubling my tax burden. When I shared all the legal documents with the IRS, the agent assigned to my case told me the IRS doesn't care about why people can't pay their taxes and (this is exactly what the agent said to me): "One way or another, we're going to get our money." Now I'm the IRS' b*tch. My credit went from nearly perfect to so bad I can't rent a slum apartment in a crack-infested neighborhood anymore (I got the credit-related rejection from one last year). No one cares WHY your credit is poor or WHY you have no money left. All that matters is HOW MUCH MONEY YOU HAVE. You could be a rapist or murderer, but if you have lots of cash, you're all good.
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@FTL.Wanderer I am so sorry. This must be absolutely awful, having the IRS after you. Money is all that matters to the world, it seems. It's your value, your worth. Nobody cares about you without it, nobody cares about you if you're struggling without it, nobody wants to help. I'm so sorry for what your ex-business partner did to you.
Elek
Student
- Feb 2, 2019
- 101
Compared to the income my parents are hugely overdebt due to their broken business and I can't even help, feeling really miserable 
Does american IRS allow you to repay your debts in instalments? In my country if you can't pay your taxes on time you can parcel it out and pay it with a small (well, not that small, but it's bearable) interest to avoid eviction or bad credit score, there is any similar rule in US?
Does american IRS allow you to repay your debts in instalments? In my country if you can't pay your taxes on time you can parcel it out and pay it with a small (well, not that small, but it's bearable) interest to avoid eviction or bad credit score, there is any similar rule in US?
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littlelungs
Wizard
- Oct 21, 2018
- 634
Good god, I am so sorry that you have to deal with that. That is absolutely awful.
Gina
Unknown
- Sep 2, 2018
- 53
I'm nearly 62K in debt over damn student loans, from a college that I never graduated from.Is it my fault, yes but they school was a lying piece of garbage.
Student loan debt like this is criminal. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. It's truly despicable.
Compared to the income my parents are hugely overdebt due to their broken business and I can't even help, feeling really miserable
Does american IRS allow you to repay your debts in instalments? In my country if you can't pay your taxes on time you can parcel it out and pay it with a small (well, not that small, but it's bearable) interest to avoid eviction or bad credit score, there is any similar rule in US?
They do, but the interest quickly makes the debt insurmountable.
Right! Oh I hate this system where they can bar u from being able to have a place to live just because of your credit. It's very inhumane. This is what socialism looks like. Basically they make it so people have no property rights. Create major obstacles for u to have a place to call home. Without the ability to have a residence u can't really do much. Nobody is saying it has to be a perfect luxury home but just the basics so u can stay safe, warm, and keep belongings there.
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Ruffian
Jumpin Jack Flash, it’s a gas gas gas
- Jan 16, 2019
- 696
Yes, definitely. Way worse off than my parents, never lived up to potential, spent a fortune on therapy that never helped.
Not debt, but the loss of home over stupid financial decision significantly conributes to my suicidal thoughts.
I swear I didn't realize what I was doing back then.
Now I am with no home, no skills, in a foreign country with terrible anxiety.
I swear I didn't realize what I was doing back then.
Now I am with no home, no skills, in a foreign country with terrible anxiety.
Ruffian
Jumpin Jack Flash, it’s a gas gas gas
- Jan 16, 2019
- 696
Your parents had more freedom, they grew up with less debt, lower cost of living, public school and the media had already been brainwashing them though if they went to public school. The socialists had begun to infiltrate academia, pushing toxic ideologies. In public school they push for equality of outcome which is bad because not all kids are equal. Men and women are not equal nor were they designed to be for that matter. So when u treat all kids as the same u limit opportunity for the kids who might be able to really do a lot of productive stuff for society. Which then lifts up everybody's standard of living, at least in a free society.
Ruffian
Jumpin Jack Flash, it’s a gas gas gas
- Jan 16, 2019
- 696
I dont' think we should be getting into political ideology debates on here, but since you brought it up, this is not what socialism looks like. Also your line of reasoning just doesn't make any sense - in a capitalist society, where money is all that matters and it's every man for himself, youd' have to have a lot of credit/money to have a place to live, not in a socialist society. Look at Scandinavia, they all have places to live. I have friends in Oslo and there is literally one homeless person in Oslo, and it's only because he doesn't want to stay in the state housing. Even in the communist countries, they all had places to live. Shitty Soviet concrete blocks, but somewhere to live if they weren't shipped off to labor camps.
And the left wants equal opportunities for all people, not equal outcomes for all people. As a woman who has experienced sexism and workplace misogyny firsthand — it's part of the reason I've been pushed to suicide — I am offended by your implication that women shouldn't have equal opportunities. This is a thread about debt, how about the fact that i"ve been paid less than my incompetent male peers for doing twice as much work? You think that's right?
Fox News contributes to fearful, negative mindsets and I'd advise we all stay away.
Ruffian
Jumpin Jack Flash, it’s a gas gas gas
- Jan 16, 2019
- 696
I thinks politics are ok if people can be reasonable. It is a touchy subject though. My coworker is from Canada and he's always criticizing American Healthcare, work ethic, etc. I don't like it either, but it's tiresome listening to it. I think it's like it's ok if I call myself a dumbass, but don't like it if anyone else does. And I only bring it up because I do think if you're "unsuccessful" in a capitalist society, it contributes to being suicidal. Maybe living under another political system could affect someone's mindset as well?
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Your Own Ghost
Human
- Mar 12, 2019
- 96
I have student loan debt, but that's just one reason among many. The further I get from those days, the more I feel like I've been scammed.
Gina
Unknown
- Sep 2, 2018
- 53
elizabeth.luck
Eliminate your map.
- Mar 10, 2019
- 124
At one point, I had almost $22K in credit card debt. I have been slowly paying it down using the Dave Ramsey snowball method and I'm REALLY proud of myself. I will never live to be debt free, however, and no one will ever know how hard I worked to get out of debt. If you want to talk about becoming debt free, hit me up!
Nihil
Student
- Mar 4, 2019
- 111
Only debt I have is student debt (somewhere between $50k-$60K), though it is one of the lesser factors that makes me suicidal at times. For whatever reason, no one wants to hire me, and I've been job hunting for months on end to no avail. Have also been dealing with financial concerns with stable food and housing, and damn is it hard to have that when you're unemployed. Here I am with a master's degree from last year, graduated as a validictorian with summa cum laude honors with over a 4.0 GPA, and I'm punished with tons of student debt where no one wants to hire me. High paying jobs around my field required X number of years of work experience that I apparently lack, and low paying jobs don't want to hire me because I have a masters degree and am "too overqualified." No, seriously...I've been turned down from work at places like Trader Joe's and McDonald's just because of my masters degree. Like...fuck...makes me regret going to college in the first place. Since when the hell does someone get financially punished like this for going to college? One should not be financially punished for trying to better their lives in pursuit of higher education. Swear higher education is financially corrupt, at least in the U.S. Cost of college is almost criminal, and the costs just keep going up every year. And then when I hear about the college admission scandals that have been going on with top Ivy League schools, it infuriates me. Money is what gets you to the top it seems; not effort or merit or smarts. College is probably one of my bigger regrets in life. Should have just gone into the work force right out of high school, or gone to a trade school. I would have been so much better off financially compared to now.
Also, in the fine print with the student loans, if I got seriously injured or died, it'd all be forgiven without anyone else being held financially liable. My dad took out some student debt to help me under his name, and if I died, he'd be forgiven of it too. So, sometimes that fine print echoes in the back of my head and makes suicide almost look like a financially logical thing to do. Also, this is so true for many recent college graduates:
Also, in the fine print with the student loans, if I got seriously injured or died, it'd all be forgiven without anyone else being held financially liable. My dad took out some student debt to help me under his name, and if I died, he'd be forgiven of it too. So, sometimes that fine print echoes in the back of my head and makes suicide almost look like a financially logical thing to do. Also, this is so true for many recent college graduates:
FTL.Wanderer
Enlightened
- May 31, 2018
- 1,782
That really means a lot to me. Thank you.
Compared to the income my parents are hugely overdebt due to their broken business and I can't even help, feeling really miserable
Does american IRS allow you to repay your debts in instalments? In my country if you can't pay your taxes on time you can parcel it out and pay it with a small (well, not that small, but it's bearable) interest to avoid eviction or bad credit score, there is any similar rule in US?
Yes, the IRS is happy to put you on an installment plan--with substantial interest. But the minimum they'll accept, even with an attorney working for you..., can still be waaaaay more than you can afford to pay, especially if your credit is shot which means many other financial opportunities are lost to you. Poverty, at least in the US, is a vicious spiral. Once you lose a modicum of security, it's like being in quicksand. And I'm still young. I've met (Reddit...) many people in my shoes who're older--even in their 70's and 80's--who can't get a job due to age discrimination but have no help. The government takes their homes and throws them out on the street where many are either killed (violence), die from exposure or malnutrition, or kill themselves to escape poverty and homelessness.
Welcome to the USA: Land of the Free and Home of the Brave.
I agree with you "scammed" sentiment. Yet still, no matter the tens of thousands of online reports about the actualities of student loan debt (there are even outstanding online reports from graduates of the world's best universities with science degrees who find themselves under- or unemployed), everyone is still clawing their way to the universities, taking on any amount of loans to "get my degree." There are reports from industrial plant managers in the US South that PAY 100% for people's certification in national high-needs fields WHILE paying a STARTING salary of $15-$18+/hr (USD) in a part of the country where apartments (1-bedroom) are about $500/month. But they can't find high school juniors and seniors willing to pursue the 2-3 year training that leads to a stable career with full medical/dental/retirement benefits with median income approaching six-figures. Because everyone wants a "sexy" university-graduate career--despite these vanishing. So the public, average people like me, bears at least some of the responsibility for the educational debt fiasco in the US.
Not saying any of that applies to you, but many of us are willingly making these choices because we think we're going to be among the winners, not the losers. :(
I really like the graphic at the end of your post. Most of my friends from school who couldn't find work just removed all their educational experience from their resumes. When I ran into a really bad situation after moving to a part of the US without my industry, I applied for social services work. Living in a home with people with severe cognitive disabilities and caring for them, taking them to appointments, modeling "normal living routines." The manager who interviewed me said, "We have to take anyone who walks in off the street." This was in Missouri just outside St Louis (about a half-hour's drive west). If you know anything about that part of the US, you understand he was NOT exaggerating. I was living in Central Illinois at the time. For each interview for this position, I had to drive in 3-hours EACH WAY. After a MONTH of interview after interview, I never heard back from them. I removed all references from my post high school education. I had home care certification (I'd taken care of my mom...) and great letters of recommendation from state agencies.
I never got the job. So a place that was so desperate for warm meat it took anyone walking in off the street willing to do the work ... found me unsuitable. Damn. I must be REALLY ugly if I'm not even good enough to wipe people's butts on the toilet. That was def a low-point of my life. And that's saying a lot.
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Your Own Ghost
Human
- Mar 12, 2019
- 96
I think universities, at least American universities, have largely become financial institutions above all and they sell identities but advertise themselves in the traditions of old. People say this happened when government money started flowing freely through the loan industry and so the universities could operate on a predatory swing-door policy.
And the government knew exactly what they were doing. You hear it all the time – you can pay back the loans at your own pace. But anyone who sees the monthly interest accumulate begins to understand the game. Hell, I wasn't dumb when I signed those loans. I didn't not understand numbers. But in the middle of it, my loans also jumped from about 3% to almost 7%. A couple years ago I didn't go anywhere I didn't have to, and I didn't spend money on anything I didn't absolutely need, and at the end of the year I was in exactly the same spot as I started. That's the "best" case scenario I can manage.
It took me almost eight off and on years to complete my B.A. I fought through illness to better myself, winding my way through community college after coming out of three years of a rather non-educational mental health high school program, and then I moved on to a local university. When others were out partying, I was home reading. I watched free lectures online instead of television. Then I graduated with high honors. Know what doesn't care about that? Illness. Know what you can't learn your way out of? Illness? Know what the student loan industry doesn't care about? Yeah. There's the final lesson.
Not to mention by this point I'm like toxic sludge to any potential employer even if my health issues should spontaneously evaporate. They aren't legally allowed to ask about health conditions, but if you don't tell them you end up looking like you just walked out of prison.
But if you make regular payments, your end result will be forgiven (supposedly) after 20 or 25 years, i.e. if I spend 25 years doing nothing but treading water my remaining balance will be forgiven. And they say you can't go to prison for not paying your debts, but you can go to prison for not paying your taxes. Guess what you get taxed on at the end? The remaining balance. Even if you've already paid it several times over.
I know it's not their fault I'm sick. But your high school counselor, your associates, and your family will all tell you, "You should go to college. You're so intelligent." And you do, of course you go. And while there's barely any food in your fridge, the girl sitting next to you who comes from a wealthy family studies the same material. You might even do better than her. When you graduate, you pay on your loans for a good portion of your life and you pay more at every turn for the fact you're poor. The wealthy girl graduates without debt, gets a nice car right away, can afford a family, and so on. Her parents likely have connections. All you have is a degree. In the guise of equal opportunity, class differences are further ingrained into the system. It was designed that way.
Etc. This sounds like a disjointed rant, but there's not a singular reason I feel scammed. Perhaps it would be more fitting to say that I was lured into a trap with open arms. My desire to learn and better myself was the very thing used against me. And I said too much and will probably open myself up to a lot of criticism, but instead of responding I think I'll just stop here. It doesn't matter much to me now.
TL;DR – I would have been better off with a library card.
TAW122
Emissary of the right to die.
- Aug 30, 2018
- 6,797
One of my reasons for ctb'ing is debt related. I think if I had the option to go back a decade ago, I probably would have worked in the real world for a bit and see if I can cope with it, then if not, decide on going to college for an education. I have two degrees (one Bachelor's and one Master's), but have over 35K debt in student loans in which I don't forsee being able to reliably pay it off.
Sure, while I majored in computer science and software engineering, I don't see myself getting that awesome, high paying job to pay it off. (This is because I didn't really like the field and mainly went into to partly due to family pressure and also the allure of 'good pay'. I'm not that good at my field.) Then also, if I do get some job like that, chances are that it sucks enough and I wouldn't be happy anyways...
Sure, while I majored in computer science and software engineering, I don't see myself getting that awesome, high paying job to pay it off. (This is because I didn't really like the field and mainly went into to partly due to family pressure and also the allure of 'good pay'. I'm not that good at my field.) Then also, if I do get some job like that, chances are that it sucks enough and I wouldn't be happy anyways...
Nihil
Student
- Mar 4, 2019
- 111
Thank you, and I agree with pretty much everything you also said to the other posters. Looking back at my own screw-ups, I remember in high school that the peer pressure was on to go to college. Teachers, other students, parents, and pretty much everyone hammered it into my head (and into others) that that "sexy university-graduate career" was absolutely paramount to surviving in the real world and having a good life. I was a hard worker in grade school, often working myself to death without much of a social life. Same in college too. I was coerced to go into college right at 18, was told "you're smart, you'll figure it out," and for the most part have fought for survival since. Hell, I even lived frugally with my money and rarely bought anything luxurious during college. And yet, tuition, ridiculously over-priced text-books, fees upon fees upon fees for the stupidest of things, meal plans, campus insurance, and a whole bunch of other BS...well...based on my own experiences, I see college more as a business than an actual learning institution. College is supposedly able to better your life by working yourself hard and expanding your knowledge as a scholar, and while you can learn things there that you could also simply learn how to do online, it in actuallity imprisons you with financial debt. All about the money. All it ever is. Swear colleges try to milk their students the most they legally can, especially from students coming from poverty and other hardships, like illness, family struggles, and so on.
And I've thought about removing my college degrees from my resume, but pretty much all of my work experience has been in a university setting, so if I removed the degrees, I'm pretty erasing my entire resume. And yes, I have tried applying for work at universities. Takes them about 6-9 months before they can fully process my applications, by which point I get a response saying they went with someone else, job posting was canceled, and so on. Oh that feel when even making $30,000 a year feels like being a millionaire to me. I'm so tired of being poor. So ideally, in terms of getting hired somewhere, I guess I'd need to find low-paying jobs that don't require a resume or a work history in the application? (Though pretty much all employers require a resume when applying for work. If you know of any places that don't require a resume, please let me know. I'm legit desperate at this point.) In which case, what in the hell was the point of going to college in the first place? Realizations like these make me want to smash my head hard against a brick or a slab of concrete or something.
Oh, and just for you FTL.Wanderer since I figure you might get a kick out of this, don't you want to go into thousands of dollars of student debt taking a computer course on how to do extremely basic tasks on a Windows Vista computer? I mean, who wouldn't want to sink in $3,000 in tuition on learning about how to use the recycle bin on a desktop?
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FTL.Wanderer
Enlightened
- May 31, 2018
- 1,782
First off, I LOOOOVE the expression of the blonde crew-cut kid who seems so bored out of his skull during that monotone, soporific lecture he's probably contemplating suicide... Classic.
I agree wholly with your assessment of the education business in the US. I could share a story about working in "education" in Asia that would make you want to toss your dinner. Internationally, education has become all about status (why the person with degree X is a better human being than the person with degree Y) and profit (the # of multi-billion-dollar endowments in the US alone keeps growing on the back of unsustainable student loan debt). But what makes me most angry is that we people keep enabling this. Of course it's not going to get any better and no protective legislation is going to be passed so long as most of us keep buying into this idiocy. :(
And have you noticed how just about EVERY other online learning platform over the past decade has become really highly polished and sophisticated to attract and keep customers, but the "gold standard" for the new cash-cow of university online learning, Canvas (and yesterday's Blackboard), has a user interface like something out of IBM's pre-2000's dinosaur era? Why? Because college students have little say in what they HAVE to do to earn their degrees. There's little incentive to make the learning environment visually appealing, intuitive, and effective. So we get stuck with these buggy-as-sh*t reliably malfunctioning nightmares where universities pack hundreds or thousands of people into a read-these-boring-walls-of-text-and-figure-it-out-on-your-own virtual room with the most superficial mandatory discussion-board responses and faculty who don't want to be bothered. And often for MORE than the cost of the same course in a tradition classroom setting! WTF?!
I don't know how more people aren't suicidal living in this rat race.
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Nihil
Student
- Mar 4, 2019
- 111
And let's not forget always having to buy the latest edition of a decade-old textbook polished up with new pictures and like maybe a new chapter every single semester because publishers want that additional free money. Also, I went to one college for my first two years before transferring to another one since I needed to move to another state. The first joke of college I went to, they were always constantly doing construction work on campus. I kid you not, they completely demolished an area of land in front of the cafeteria, remodeled said land perfectly, and then demolished it again later. Upon rebuilding it, the only thing different was the sidewalk. Money that could be used for online learning interfaces to make the learning experience more intuitive, helpful, and less bugging, as well as other learning tools, is instead being used on sidewalks, fancy chairs, desks, windows, and other BS to make the place look so much more polished and exquisite.
My ranting on the education system aside, yeah...it's seriously financially corrupt in the U.S. To any prospective student looking to go to college, unless you're really wanting to go into engineering, medicine, pharmacy, accounting, etc., seriously...just go to a trade school. Only costs a franction of a four-year university while being able to complete your certification in like a year or so. Or better yet, just get into the work force right away (if you're close to graduating or have just graduated high school). That work experience is in itself more valuable than a college degree it seems. Course, if you have tons of money lying around or are getting someone to help you financially, then I suppose it doesn't matter. But seriously, don't fall into the student loan trap. It's a bloody nightmare that traps you in a never-ending rat race that lasts until old age.
FTL.Wanderer
Enlightened
- May 31, 2018
- 1,782
Have you heard about the latest trend in online learning? So, textbook companies were pissed that students were selling used textbooks back to on-campus bookstores and online sites like Amazon... So they seduced universities and faculty to switch over to online textbooks with access keys. So now, instead of paying $200 for a textbook or $140 for the used version, or instead of SHARING a textbook or just using the on-reserve copy at the university library, EVERY student has to BUY an access code to the online class' textbook (@ like $150 a pop) JUST so each student can complete the homework assignments numerically tied to her/his online textbook access code. So even if you don't need/want the textbook, you STILL HAVE TO BUY THE ACCESS CODE to do your homework to get credit for your homework submission--which, naturally, is online through an arrangement between the online textbook company and the university's Canvas platform.
So the universities know students are dying (literally committing suicide) due to crushing student loan debt and what do they do? Make deals with textbook companies to FORCE students to pay MORE MONEY per class. Again, I don't know why even more people aren't suicidal.
littlelady774
running on empty
- Dec 20, 2018
- 708
This is true.
I had to pay $200 for an online textbook for my biology class... What a rip off.
I love your post so much.
I honestly hate college and regret going to university. It's such a scam. A very very expensive scam. I worked my ass off an high school and put myself through college - no debt. But I have a worthless humanities degree because I was a naive idiot.
We need to tell today's youth to not go to college. It's not worth it!! You'd be better off learning a trade or something
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