Anybody like watching Jordan Peterson talks on YouTube?

[Pulpit2018]

Relax guys,I am on your side.I am not some pro-lifer thats going to go on a evangelical crusade on you.
I am pro-choice.It just happens there are those of us,who are not big on socialism and statism.
Hell i dont mind if the state does not provide the means for my CTB.As long as its legal,we good.I can do it myself.

 

[JustAboutDone]

I'd rather go on living for another 60 years.

Sorry but this is the most ironically funny thing! I can't stop laughing

 

[Nanami]

Hey peeps.

Political topics are always a sensitive issue and it's always hard to tackle topics like this.
I understand that people have their views and want to express them, but please do so in a respectful manner.

Thank you.

 

[Othermind]

Sorry but this is the most ironically funny thing! I can't stop laughing

This thread went from funny, to cringey, to straight up sad for me.

 

[sif]

Sorry for being rude in this thread, I'm just not feeling myself

 

[Mrs.O'Leary'sCow]

Women who have trouble managing emotions and reactions to various events. Basically you can't manage your reactions to events that happen in your daily life. You are verbally and even physically abusive. Yes women can be just as violent as men. Women as a whole tend to reason more from emotions than from logic. This is why women can be more irrational. Men as a whole are more logical and less feelings based.

Woah, that's a lot to unpack.

So what's the remedy? Exclusion of women from civil discourse with men?

 

[JustAboutDone]

Sorry for being rude in this thread, I'm just not feeling myself

What a lovely person you are

 

[Othermind]

Woah, that's a lot to unpack.

So what's the remedy? Exclusion of women from civil discourse with men?

You'll never get a straight answer from Lobsterman and his cronies, but if you can read between the lines and dog-whistles you'll hear a resounding "Yes".

 

[Hopeless_soul]

Relax guys,I am on your side.I am not some pro-lifer thats going to go on a evangelical crusade on you.
I am pro-choice.It just happens there are those of us,who are not big on socialism and statism.
Hell i dont mind if the state does not provide the means for my CTB.As long as its legal,we good.I can do it myself.

You can say whatever you want, but sometimes it could be annoying to hear arguments based on fallacies. Of course, socialism has to be blamed for it hasn't worked properly, but so has capitalism. Ideology is put into practice in unexpected ways sometimes... Some people think that in the US the Democrats represent the left, but that's not true. In the US there hasn't been a well established left: in current times, probably Sanders would be one exception. In the UK it's different: the Labour party is not tantamount to the Democratic party. So, when you speak about socialism so freely using the case of Venezuela as a scapegoat, and blah blah, and mixing all the things you've heard into a massive rambling, it makes people think about on what you are basing your arguments. If you want to be fair, you should also talk about the shortcomings of capitalism: maybe, just maybe, you could find out that poor countries are in that state because of the excesses of developed countries, and that they flee their home States out of despair, not because they admire so much the way of living of the West, etc.

It's perfectly OK to defend free market and capitalism, (you talk about liberalism, but I'm not quite sure you actually know what that is. It's actually neoliberalism the one that has wreaked havoc throughout the world) but it would be interesting to hear sensible arguments that are not embellished with goofy claptraps. It's not that hard, really, to speak in favour of capitalism without resorting to fallacies and little jokes about socialism.

I think this is my longest post so far. :) [Edit: no, it's not my longest post].

Peace

 

[RyanSuicide]

Yes very much so was watching him yesterday in fact!

 

[waived]

Reactionary propaganda for gullible and angsty alienated young men with just enough pseudo-intellectual remarks and feel good platitudes to pass it off as self-help.
I find him and his cult-like followers utterly repulsive.

Brilliant, and agreed. As to your other posts I was surprised as well that this space was relatively unoccupied by unhealthy social behavior (healthy having some objective measurement since the only reason our species is top dog is because of our ability to engage in such highly social behaviors with the downturn usually looking like a breach of that i.e. individual interpersonal and systemic coercion followed by collapse). @ other comment about 'truly experiencing' another form of life, there hasn't been 'True' socialism or communism that has ever existed on this planet however we can definitely see what has existed and it looks a lot like the above mentioned coercive forces. In fact, we can trace exactly where things went awry within moves towards a higher level of social interaction and understanding and it looks a lot like a combination of external forces especially economic, and internal regression back into reactionary processes.

 

[Pulpit2018]

there hasn't been 'True' socialism or communism that has ever existed on this planet however we can definitely see what has existed and it looks a lot like the above mentioned coercive forces. In fact, we can trace exactly where things went awry within moves towards a higher level of social interaction and understanding and it looks a lot like a combination of external forces especially economic, and internal regression back into reactionary processes.

Define True.There has never been full capitalism or full communism.
Why does it matter?
We have seen communist practices at large though,and it was a disaster.Soviet,China,Asia,etc..
We have seen somewhat capitalistic practices and they were better.Not perfect but quantifiably better.
Looking at Venezuela and saying "thats not true socialism" is a bad argument.
Sure there is a market at Venezuela too.Its so weak though,its useless.
How many socialistic practices need to happen in a country before we can see "thats wrong"?

I do not believe in zero sum game,in world economics.The world has reduced hunger massively despite more population.Who the hell you think is responsible?Socialism or the world market?
Why is it always the fault of the West that in countries like that there is despair?
Maybe there is despair because their socio-economic systems suck ass!
I do not want to wash-off the crimes of the West.
But we have made progress because of the enlightment and liberation of economics and politics.We have done a better job.Why cant we say that?Why cant we say that we have a better system when all evidence points there?
Why should they not follow our lead?

Hell ,thats what Asia is doing.Its turning to free market policies,and is winning hard!
China,Taiwan,Singapore,Hong - Kong.Why they are making progress?Because they took a page from our book,and good for them.
Why cant we have the confidence to admit that we got something right when all evidence is on our side?
We won the cold war people,ffs!The berlin wall fell.
There is no debate.Only fools who do not know what socialism really is,and have a rosy view of it think otherwise.

Now,you want to criticize capitalism?Fine.
It creates inequality.Its competitive.It can feel materialistic(although thats not the fault of capitalism itself,but the way society progresses).It can put the environment in second place.
All flaws that need to be investigated sure.But it does not compare.There is no better system yet.
People who have no taste of socialism can say all the romantic things about it they want.I am going to be there to challenge that.

Instead of thinking about systems that history has rejected,fix capitalism!
For instance crypto currencies is an interesting invention,that can shake some things ups.Just an example.
No Bernie will save you folks.And no Trump either.The only solutions to capitalism are going to come from the market itself.
Bet you bottom dollar on that!

 

[Chinaski]

The only solutions to capitalism are going to come from the market itself.
Bet you bottom dollar on that!

Tune in next week, when @Pulpit2018 reveals the cure for cancer is actually more cancer.

 

[sif]

Let's ban politics talk from now on! We should be thinking about dying who cares about isms

 

[Smilla]

Everyone calm down and read Ayn Rand.

 

[Pulpit2018]

Tune in next week, when @Pulpit2018 reveals the cure for cancer is actually more cancer.

Its called the invisible hand.
And yes believe it or not,markets correct themselves.Its been happening for years...

 

[Johnnythefox]

Let's all have a nice cup of this, I'll put the kettle on.

 

[sif]

Everyone calm down and read Ayn Rand.

A literal three hour speech in a book? Yes please!

 

[Johnnythefox]

The pub I used to frequent had a notice up saying "no football, no politics, no religion"
Guaranteed to start a fight in any pub here.

 

[Pulpit2018]

We need to get an Inmendham versus Jordan Peterson debate.

 

[sif]

The pub I used to frequent had a notice up saying "no football, no politics, no religion"
Guaranteed to start a fight in any pub here.

That sounds like a good pub though

 

[Johnnythefox]

That sounds like a good pub though

I used to go regularly every weekend, loved the place. Good music, good company and good people.

 

[Misanthrope]

This thread has proven interesting. Part of me wants to respond to it the other is questioning why even bother... Although that is pretty much the dominant question in my life these days.

 

[Smilla]

We need to get an Inmendham versus Jordan Peterson debate.

InMendham is my personal hero. Let's not start WWIII

 

[Smilla]

 

[Pulpit2018]

InMendham is my personal hero. Let's not start WWIII

I like him.I mean he is different.I do like someone who is unapologetically pessimist.I do not agree with everything he says but he makes his case.
He is not suitable for debates because he rages too much,and too aggressive.

One think for sure is pessimism is always going to be less popular than optimism.As anti-natalists we have to accept that fact.
Thats just nature.However that does not mean that its not worth fighting and debating.Even a small spread of antinatalism saves a lot of trouble in the long run.

 

[Pulpit2018]

One of my favorite speeches:


It meshes well with my rant against socialism,lol.Worst thing you can do in this life is make a child in place like that.

 

[Misanthrope]

Against better judgement, I will respond, mostly because I am bored...

Diversity of opinion is only as good as the actual opinions being passed around. A community of thinkers gains nothing from the introduction of fascists or creationists.
If we don't ditch shit opinions once and for all discourse becomes an endless purgatory of debunking the same trite talking points that bigots will NEVER stop shoving down people's throats.

Oh boy, here we go...

I will put my biases on the table first before I continue this discussion. I come from a background of working alongside law. Law that specifically deals with bigotry as my clients were often on the receiving end of it. I respect those laws and why they exist at the standard they do. (They certainly can be improved though.) I would vehemently oppose those laws straying into the realm of attempting to define what is 'good or acceptable opinion.' Then turning that into legislation, backed by force in some form.

Diversity of opinion is only as good as the actual opinions being passed around.

That is a subjective opinion, good is also subjective. What are good opinions? What are bad opinions? Who is the ultimate arbiter of this? How do you define good or bad? What would that look like in a legal framework? What are you wanting to do about what you view as bad opinions?

A community of thinkers gains nothing from the introduction of fascists or creationists.

Another opinion which I am glad you get to have. One I find quite funny though, and I will outline why a little later if you want to continue in discussion and answer my questions? Otherwise, I will keep the joke to myself, thanks for the chuckle though I needed it.

If we don't ditch shit opinions once and for all discourse becomes an endless purgatory of debunking the same trite talking points that bigots will NEVER stop shoving down people's throats.

Yes, it would be nice if shit opinions did go away. However, not everyone is you or me and agrees with what you or I view is a shit opinion in the first place. I am also a fallible human so I could also be wrong and need educating myself. How would you prove that opinion is shit? How would you dissuade people of their shit opinions so they ditch them?

I choose to educate them away from them using evidence-based approaches and politeness. How about you? It does not always work, and I am probably a Monsanto shill, lizard alien, working for big pharma, and well placed within the Illuminati that is best buds with satan. No doubt I will be accused of being a pro-lifer on here one day as well. I shall add it to my list of baseless assumption accolades. But if I get through to some I view that as a win.

It is an endless purgatory that is not going anywhere, not because people have shit opinions but because in society there is next to no teaching of rationalism, or logical fallacies as standard. So many are vulnerable to getting sucked into the psychological warfare that is out there exploiting ignorance in a variety of areas. Resulting in bigoted views that masquerade as something else, until group think takes over, friendships form and that ideology constantly reinforces itself; often moving to greater extremes. To maintain that empty echo chamber those who don't follow the group think or dare challenge it often gets removed via dismissive tactics. There is also the element of simple chance, where and who you are born to being major decider. It also comes down to if their dominant views and if you internalise those views via child development. So Luck of the draw will also factor into if you are a bigot or not, or even can be convinced away from it.

It is also not going anywhere because we are all inherently prejudice ourselves naturally. So it takes conscious effort to go against it.

https://www.iflscience.com/brain/humans-are-wired-prejudice-doesn-t-have-be-end-story/

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/336/6083/825

 

[Othermind]

Look, I mean no offense because you seem a nice enough guy.
However your post is a giant solipsistic ouroboros of eternally recurring, unfalsifiable skepticism that is simply impossible to respond to.

 

[waived]

Define True.There has never been full capitalism or full communism.

Okay. True capitalism would be what we experience currently within capitalism. It is a material and logical reality that has been constructed by humans. it isn't an abstract theory. It is actively manged by States as a global economy. It is most certainly 'full capitalism' at the moment. What it is now isn't different than its praxis, there was no mistake or error, it has always required poverty and ruination in order to function because it takes the wealth of all human activity and places it into the hands of private ownership. You can find capitalism's origins and explain events, behavior, and patterns within it. Its functioning matches its proposal.

That isn't the same situation with socialism and communism historically. What you will note is periods of communist activity getting either crushed by external forces actively seeking to do so (intentionally), or a regression back into activity that mirrors the world it seeks to destroy, also essentially being crushed by external forces albeit in this case economic and organizational. These weren't instances of functioning communism or socialism they were a part of the world we still have today and are in fact a way in which communist activity is actively destroyed. The reasons for the latter are varied but one would be those seeking state power do so for reasons other than to then relinquish it later on, although as I'll mention in a minute that is a very dated and terse description and socialism and communism are not really the same thing at all so this can get lengthy and complicated pretty quick. This is what I meant in response to off the cuff remarks about 'things never worked' and 'they are bad too'.

Most important is the number of ordinary people who we can classify as being Black and Red libertarians, past and present, who actively fought against these regressions, not for Socialism or Communism but as communist activity. The people being destroyed by what amounts to state politicos weren't inherently servient to the previous order.

And shit I could not resist making an edit to comment on this one

I do not believe in zero sum game,in world economics.The world has reduced hunger massively despite more population.Who the hell you think is responsible?Socialism or the world market?

The economic system and the states of whatever flavor that govern it (or vice versa) have come close to destroying an entire planet with no sign of stopping. This includes altering the access to food supply or production for millions of people as their geographically specific climate changes among other things.

Why is it always the fault of the West that in countries like that there is despair? Maybe there is despair because their socio-economic systems suck ass!

It isn't always although you're showing your hand and if it is a global economic system that oh nevermind.