Method Antiemetics and fasting

[sunny/omori]

Some people in this forum recommend taking antiemetics 30 minutes before taking SN. I dont believe this is correct. If you consult Guide to Humane Self-Chosen Death it says that you should take antiemetics, ideally 10 mg of metoclopramide every 6-8 hours in the prior 24 hours, last dose one hour prior with some light snack. In poisoning with other drugs (this book doesnt discuss SN) you should have 8 hours of fasting, to fasten absorption. I recommend to read it carefully.

 

[Smart No More]

Yeah, there's a lot of opinion thrown around as fact. Also there's that element of 'Chinese whispers' where someone will either misquote or misinterpret something and that goes on to be referenced by others, permiating into the common beliefs of people that joined at the just right moment to be taken along by it. People get fed up of correcting things or answering the same questions so it slips through. Sometimes the best and definitive info gets pushed into the archives by new info that doesn't necessarily need to exist. People will come asking questions and someone will answer them and therefore more info gets piled on top of the correct/more concise and compiled info which in turn falls to the bottom of the pile/archive. A good example might be SN and Stans guide. That's a very thorough guide surrounding the use of SN and alternative AE and regimens. It doesn't need much adding to it. This whole thing might be a good argument for allowing new users access to the search function from the start. Whether they will use it I don't know.

 

[Shu]

Some people in this forum recommend taking antiemetics 30 minutes before taking SN. I dont believe this is correct. If you consult Guide to Humane Self-Chosen Death it says that you should take antiemetics, ideally 10 mg of metoclopramide every 6-8 hours in the prior 24 hours, last dose one hour prior with some light snack. In poisoning with other drugs (this book doesnt discuss SN) you should have 8 hours of fasting, to fasten absorption. I recommend to read it carefully.

What difference does it make taking it before for 24 hours vs the stat dose? Just curious.

 

[sunny/omori]

What difference does it make taking it before for 24 hours vs the stat dose?

It gives time to the drug to go to the cerebral receptors. It also increases the plasma levels of the drug.

 

[Shu]

It gives time to the drug to go to the cerebral receptors. It also increases the plasma levels of the drug.

What does this mean in terms of the effects? I'm slow.

 

[Smart No More]

It also helps clear the gastric system and provide a nit of leeway for your timing when taking your N. You can take a little longer to make that final move if it suits you. Not feeling rushed seems useful to me. There's less chance of the worst side effects when taking it in 10mg increments too. I'vw spoken with people who were fine at 10mg doses but felt really terrible and complained of ongoing issues following the use of a stat dose.

 

[T90-Alpha]

Will I still be able to ctb without AE?
I'm planning to bring two bottles with sn with me.

 

[Smart No More]

N plus SN?

 

[MsMaudlin]

I wondered that too?

 

[fizi22]

It also helps clear the gastric system and provide a nit of leeway for your timing when taking your N. You can take a little longer to make that final move if it suits you. Not feeling rushed seems useful to me. There's less chance of the worst side effects when taking it in 10mg increments too. I'vw spoken with people who were fine at 10mg doses but felt really terrible and complained of ongoing issues following the use of a stat dose.

How does the non-state AE dose go?

 

[Smart No More]

How does the non-state AE dose go?

There's different regemines that can be done. I forget the exact details. Think it's something along the lines of 10mg every 8 hours for 24hrs. You would need to sesrch it out for the precise details though. My memory fails me at the moment.

 

[Shu]

It also helps clear the gastric system and provide a nit of leeway for your timing when taking your N. You can take a little longer to make that final move if it suits you. Not feeling rushed seems useful to me. There's less chance of the worst side effects when taking it in 10mg increments too. I'vw spoken with people who were fine at 10mg doses but felt really terrible and complained of ongoing issues following the use of a stat dose.

Was this people who didn't follow through with the plan? (Taking SN or N) or is this how they felt after taking the stat dose before taking the N or SN?

 

[Smart No More]

Was this people who didn't follow through with the plan? (Taking SN or N) or is this how they felt after taking the stat dose before taking the N or SN?

They're people who had tried a 10mg dose and fealt fine so then assumed taking a stat dose would be fine but then found it caused side effects when they did take the 30mg stat dose.

There was an account of this in the last month or so on the public boards but I can't find the thread it was in.

 

[Shu]

They're people who had tried a 10mg dose and fealt fine so then assumed taking a stat dose would be fine but then found it caused side effects when they did take the 30mg stat dose.

There was an account of this in the last month or so on the public boards but I can't find the thread it was in.

I'm just wondering if 45 minutes after taking the Statin dose would be enough time to cause these symptoms or not. :/ what if those people that experienced severe pain during the SN process it was actually because of the meto. :(
I wonder if taking the 30mg causing rapid gastric emptying without ever taking it would cause severe stomach pain
Especially someone who has been dry fasting for 8 hours without drinking any water so their body is kind of dehydrated.

 

[sunny/omori]

I'm just wondering if 45 minutes after taking the Statin dose would be enough time to cause these symptoms or not. :/ what if those people that experienced severe pain during the SN process it was actually because of the meto. :(
I wonder if taking the 30mg causing rapid gastric emptying without ever taking it would cause severe stomach pain
Especially someone who has been dry fasting for 8 hours without drinking any water so their body is kind of dehydrated.

Meto does not give you pain.

 

[Shu]

Meto does not give you pain.

Well not the meto itself but thr process of the emptying of the stomach so rapidly do you thibk that could cause pain with the stat dose?

 

[sunny/omori]

Well not the meto itself but thr process of the emptying of the stomach so rapidly do you thibk that could cause pain with the stat dose?

No. SN is not painless a method, no matter what some say.

 

[Smart No More]

I'm just wondering if 45 minutes after taking the Statin dose would be enough time to cause these symptoms or not. :/ what if those people that experienced severe pain during the SN process it was actually because of the meto. :(

45mins can be long enough for symptom to start but the meds need longer to fully take effect. Also the symptoms aren't pain as detailed with SN cases. However it's kind of irrelevant as the people I'm referring to didn't take N or SN following their Meto as far as we're aware. This was purely meto related results.

Not everyone experiences issues after stat doses. Obviously,. It wouldn't be a thing otherwise. It just seems more likely that side effects will present with a stat/higher dose.

People using a stat dose should wait an hour for it to take effect and using their desired ctb method. Anything under an hour is too little really. Doing a longer plan, taking doses over a period of time allows more flexibility in this area though.

 

[HubbaHubba]

Per Stan's guide, Dignitas (one of the VAD) uses the stat dose method.

However, the only reference I can find is about N, not SN.

In general, Dignitas uses the following protocol to assist suicides: an oral dose of an antiemetic drug, followed approximately half an hour later by a lethal overdose of 15 grams of powdered pentobarbital dissolved in a glass of water. If necessary, the drugs can be ingested through a drinking straw.

 

[Smart No More]

Stans guide is based around SN.

 

[HubbaHubba]

Stans guide is based around SN.

I know. That's why I wrote:

However, the only reference I can find is about N, not SN.

 

[Smart No More]

Also I think the meto solution dignitas use is in liquid form and may be faster acting. I suspect it is personally. They try to avoid extending the time it takes as its stressful for all concerned. In the pph it says to take your meto and a small snack 1hr prior to investing N. This is in relation to tablet forms of meto. Perhaps someone with chemistry/medical knowledge could expand, confirm or refute this as appropriate.

I know. That's why I wrote:

Ah, my mistake, I kind of misread/misunderstood your wording.

It seems like the only official notes on it are surrounding the use of N because SN isn't used by the legal organisations. This document (euthenasia guidlines) has some good info but again, it's based around using N.
Stat dose is obviously a valid method as it wouldn't be used in official capacities. Its just not the ideal method. Also to be clear, the fasting period is always recommended with or without the stat dose approach.

 

[FsMama]

Do I have to follow Stan's guide? Can I fast for 48hrs, take some benzos, otc meds and 2 glasses of SN?
I have no way of getting any prescribed meds.

 

[sunny/omori]

I dont know who Stan is but WOZZ experts seems more reliable. I am a MD so a 24 hour window make total sense to me. Meto is pretty safe and its side effects are rare and irrelevant if you are gonna ctb anyway. The most common is drowsiness (10%). I wouldnt try poisoning without antiemetics.

 

[Judy Garland]

No. SN is not painless a method, no matter what some say.

We get it. We know. I haven't read anyone say it was painless. Hence why there is a guide to minimize discomfort. Is your method SN? Or are you just giving us information to help? I'm on a 10mg per night of Olanzapine. I plan on increasing that dose to 20mg for 3 evenings prior to taking my SN. I will then take 20mg of Olanzapine an hour to an hour and half before I take my SN. Everynight I know when my Olanzapine hits me because I become very hungry. So when I feel that hunger, I know it will be time for me to take my SN and leave you all.

 

[Shu]

We get it. We know. I haven't read anyone say it was painless. Hence why there is a guide to minimize discomfort. Is your method SN? Or are you just giving us information to help? I'm on a 10mg per night of Olanzapine. I plan on increasing that dose to 20mg for 3 evenings prior to taking my SN. I will then take 20mg of Olanzapine an hour to an hour and half before I take my SN. Everynight I know when my Olanzapine hits me because I become very hungry. So when I feel that hunger, I know it will be time for me to take my SN and leave you all.

I've read tons of post of people who never mentioned any pain. Matter of fact I've read post where people have said "can confirm this was peaceful" then logged out. What happened after they logged out we will never know. I've also spoken to people who survived who never mentioned any pain and said ot was more uncomfortable than anything. They usually mention nausea/feeling hot/ lightheaded etc it's gotta be different for everyone though. There must be tons of factors that play a role.

 

[Judy Garland]

I've read tons of post of people who never mentioned any pain. Matter of fact I've read post where people have said "can confirm this was peaceful" then logged out. What happened after they logged out we will never know. I've also spoken to people who survived who never mentioned any pain and said ot was more uncomfortable than anything. They usually mention nausea/feeling hot/ lightheaded etc it's gotta be different for everyone though. There must be tons of factors that play a role.

Glad you said this. :-)

 

[Shu]

Glad you said this. :-)

At the end of the day we don't know what's going to happen. I say the best thing to do is follow the 48-hour regimen and make sure that you have all the medications that are listed for it to be the most peaceful. propranolol and benzos are supposed to help a lot
I don't have those medications though and I'm doing the stat dose I don't know what's going to happen but I'm going to have to deal with it
I've had kidney stones before and was hunched over in pain vomiting for over an hour or two straight. If I can deal with that I should be able to handle the SN I hope.

 

[Judy Garland]

At the end of the day we don't know what's going to happen. I say the best thing to do is follow the 48-hour regimen and make sure that you have all the medications that are listed for it to be the most peaceful. propranolol and benzos are supposed to help a lot
I don't have those medications though and I'm doing the stat dose I don't know what's going to happen but I'm going to have to deal with it
I've had kidney stones before and was hunched over in pain vomiting for over an hour or two straight. If I can deal with that I should be able to handle the SN I hope.

Kidney Stones, FUCK! I've had real small ones that passed by themselves, I didn't even have to go to the hospital...ugh, I can't imagine large ones. FUCK! Yeah, whatever happens, happens. I won't have Metoprolol for the heart so I'm expecting my heart to beat faster, but all in all, if I don't get nausea (which I'm going to take my Olanzapine for) I'm expecting it to be rather smooth. Hypoxia doesn't hurt, it's not going to feel like suffocating like some believe.

 

[HubbaHubba]

At the end of the day we don't know what's going to happen. I say the best thing to do is follow the 48-hour regimen and make sure that you have all the medications that are listed for it to be the most peaceful. propranolol and benzos are supposed to help a lot
I don't have those medications though and I'm doing the stat dose I don't know what's going to happen but I'm going to have to deal with it
I've had kidney stones before and was hunched over in pain vomiting for over an hour or two straight. If I can deal with that I should be able to handle the SN I hope.

I think the confusion about pain/no-pain and 48 hours/stat dose stemmed from the fact that it's hard to get all the medications. E.g. meto is hard to come by in the US and there is only a 50% chance you can convinced your doctor to give it to you.

I dont know who Stan is but WOZZ experts seems more reliable. I am a MD so a 24 hour window make total sense to me. Meto is pretty safe and its side effects are rare and irrelevant if you are gonna ctb anyway. The most common is drowsiness (10%). I wouldnt try poisoning without antiemetics.

@sunny/omori : FYI, this is Stan's guide. It has 2 methods:

1. 48 hours regimen (table 1)
2. Stat mode (table 2)

Since you're an MD - I couldn't get meto so I am going with Domperidone (Motilium). That works like meto, right?