Antacid Question-Famotidine

[aminend]

I decide to take double dose of 40mg famotidine. 2×40mg
I've mild asthma too. It can be an advantage because help u to be unconscious sooner

 

[justanotherstar]

Yes but what is a double dose of famotidine? I take a 20 mg. tablet twice a day. I didn't even know they make 40 mg. pills.
Pepside, which contains famotidine, is only 10 mg, plus another kind of antacid. So really there is no set of instructions anywhere for dosages, and SN works the same way regardless.

Ah yes I see your logic and you're entirely right. I read if I remember correctly that it if you already take the drug then it's double your usual dose so if you take 20 then take 40 but I've read that much my brain is messy and I can't remember the exact source - that would have been more helpful for you. I hope someone who knows more comes along and can help :-)

 

[Meditation guide]

I've mild asthma too

I'm interested in how asthma is affected by SN. There have been studies on SN and how it affects the lungs, with one saying it causes COPD and damages lung tissue. In a case like mine where acid triggers my asthma it's something to think about. I do love my famitodine. Funny how an effective acid blocker can practically eliminate my breathing problems.

 

[Aap]

Shit I mistyped. Pepcid is an acid reducing agent that is an H2 blocker. Duh.

It has no antiemetic properties

 

[Shu]

The same question whether to use antacids (H2 antagonists, etc.) or not was really bothering me too. The info below from Suicide Wiki seems correct:




Same conclusion from another source:



Personally, I'll go without antacids as I want the most peaceful process possible. If someone has something to add to this, if I'm missing something, I'll gladly listen, because I'm still only 99% sure.

Damn it! There is so much conflicting information!

Here is the information Suicide wiki has on Antacids:

Using antacids (also known as acid regulators) is discouraged. The antacid section of Suicide Wiki is provided here only because you will encounter with antacids in the PPH. The PPH recommends decreasing your stomach's fluid volume to make the sodium nitrite absorbed more quickly. This can be accomplished with drugs like ranitidine, famotidine, or cimetidine that reduce the stomach acid quickly. The recommended dose in the PPH is 800mg cimetidine (sold under the brand name Tagamet), which is equivalent to 3 – 4 * 75 mg ranitidine (sold under the brand name Zantac).

Stat dose (30 – 45 minutes before SN intake)

• 800 mg cimetidine (Tagamet)

or

• 3 * 75 mg ranitidine (Zantac)

The PPH previously recommended sodium bicarbonate as absorption accelerator. The PPH argued that sodium bicarbonate would raise the stomach's fluid pH. The raise in stomach's fluid pH hindered loss of consciousness in some patients—although it was expected, given that the blood pressure—lowering effect of orally ingested nitrite was abolished when test persons were pretreated with a proton pump inhibitor (PPI) to raise gastric pH (Montenegro et al., 2016). Similar to sodium bicarbonate, the blood pressure-lowering effect of orally ingested nitrite is abolished by a proton pump inhibitor (Piknova & Schechter, 2017). Since the release of the October 2018 revision, the PPH suggests Tagamet (instead of sodium bicarbonate) and has misguidedly argued "this effect is not related to gastric pH, but rather to the production rate of acid." While the PPH still incorrectly recommends using H2 receptor antagonists, such as cimetidine and ranitidine, simply not using them will result in a more peaceful death, owing to formation of nitric oxide, a vasodilator, in acidic (Malko, Kucernak & Lopes, 2016) gastric environment—in pH less than 6.51 (Pereira, Ferreira, Rocha, Barbosa & Laranjinha, 2013)—as shown in pathway A[1|2].

Without antacid: 3NaNO2 + 2HCl → 2NaCl + NaNO3 + 2NO + H2O


Questions:

1. Why does Suicide Wiki discourage Antacids and says " While the PPH still incorrectly recommends using H2 receptor antagonists, such as cimetidine and ranitidine, simply not using them will result in a more peaceful death, owing to formation of nitric oxide"

2. In Stans guide and people here do use Antacids in most cases from what I have seen. I am only able to find Famotidine in my country. The info I found on Famotidine is the following: Famotidine prooved to be 9X more potent than Ranitidine and 32 X more potent than Cimetidine. The dosage are is 40 mgs/tablet. Would I take one or two of these?

3. Since all the information on antacids is contradictory in Wiki suicide vs PPH what would be better? Take Famotidine above or take an Acid Reducer-I can only find RENNIE tabs and that does NOT have Magnsium Hidroxide as recommended by Stan but the following ingredients: calcium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, alginic acid amongst other ingredients

So what do you suggest to do, what would you do? Thanks

I'm stupid. How does the nitric oxide help for a more peaceful death???

Here is the information Suicide wiki has on Antacids:

Using antacids (also known as acid regulators) is discouraged. The antacid section of Suicide Wiki is provided here only because you will encounter with antacids in the PPH. The PPH recommends decreasing your stomach's fluid volume to make the sodium nitrite absorbed more quickly. This can be accomplished with drugs like ranitidine, famotidine, or cimetidine that reduce the stomach acid quickly. The recommended dose in the PPH is 800mg cimetidine (sold under the brand name Tagamet), which is equivalent to 3 – 4 * 75 mg ranitidine (sold under the brand name Zantac).

Stat dose (30 – 45 minutes before SN intake)

• 800 mg cimetidine (Tagamet)

or

• 3 * 75 mg ranitidine (Zantac)

The PPH previously recommended sodium bicarbonate as absorption accelerator. The PPH argued that sodium bicarbonate would raise the stomach's fluid pH. The raise in stomach's fluid pH hindered loss of consciousness in some patients—although it was expected, given that the blood pressure—lowering effect of orally ingested nitrite was abolished when test persons were pretreated with a proton pump inhibitor (PPI) to raise gastric pH (Montenegro et al., 2016). Similar to sodium bicarbonate, the blood pressure-lowering effect of orally ingested nitrite is abolished by a proton pump inhibitor (Piknova & Schechter, 2017). Since the release of the October 2018 revision, the PPH suggests Tagamet (instead of sodium bicarbonate) and has misguidedly argued "this effect is not related to gastric pH, but rather to the production rate of acid." While the PPH still incorrectly recommends using H2 receptor antagonists, such as cimetidine and ranitidine, simply not using them will result in a more peaceful death, owing to formation of nitric oxide, a vasodilator, in acidic (Malko, Kucernak & Lopes, 2016) gastric environment—in pH less than 6.51 (Pereira, Ferreira, Rocha, Barbosa & Laranjinha, 2013)—as shown in pathway A[1|2].

Without antacid: 3NaNO2 + 2HCl → 2NaCl + NaNO3 + 2NO + H2O


Questions:

1. Why does Suicide Wiki discourage Antacids and says " While the PPH still incorrectly recommends using H2 receptor antagonists, such as cimetidine and ranitidine, simply not using them will result in a more peaceful death, owing to formation of nitric oxide"

2. In Stans guide and people here do use Antacids in most cases from what I have seen. I am only able to find Famotidine in my country. The info I found on Famotidine is the following: Famotidine prooved to be 9X more potent than Ranitidine and 32 X more potent than Cimetidine. The dosage are is 40 mgs/tablet. Would I take one or two of these?

3. Since all the information on antacids is contradictory in Wiki suicide vs PPH what would be better? Take Famotidine above or take an Acid Reducer-I can only find RENNIE tabs and that does NOT have Magnsium Hidroxide as recommended by Stan but the following ingredients: calcium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, alginic acid amongst other ingredients

So what do you suggest to do, what would you do? Thanks

I'm stupid. How does the nitric oxide help for a more peaceful death???

I'm not a chemist or anything even remotely close, and this kind of thing has always been out of my comfort zone. I've tried to research it several times, but I don't really science well.

That said...

Reference #1: Says nitric oxide forms in pH less than 6.51

It also claims not using acid regulators will be more peaceful. But how? Isn't this contradictory?

Acid regulators increase gastric PH, which means SN won't convert to nitric oxide if you use them. Right?

So if you don't use them, you will experience the conversion.

And you don't want that, do you? Nitric oxide is beneficial. It opens blood vessels, causing oxygen to travel easier through the body. Which is exactly what we do not want. So isn't it better to use them, raise PH levels, and avoid nitric oxide as much as possible?

Reference #2 says: "The increase in gastric pH [...] blunts part of the beneficial cardiovascular effects of dietary nitrate and nitrite."

The word "dietary" is key. Nitrites are natural in some foods, and I'm guessing that study is looking at things from a health standpoint, not an ending your life one. The beneficial effects they mention are the conversion of SN to nitric oxide. So what that's saying is increase gastric PH, you do not make nitric oxide. Bad if you want health benefits, but good for our purpose. That's what we want in this case, isn't it?

So the way I'm reading them, both references support the idea of using antacids or acid reducers to help SN work the way we want.

It seems the main argument against acid regulators is that they might fight low blood pressure. But other drugs taken with SN lower blood pressure more. So I think that's a moot point and can be ignored.

We also don't want SN hanging out in the stomach too long to begin with. It needs to empty quickly into the intestines to be absorbed. That's one reason Meto, specifically, is recommended. It's an antiemetic, but more importantly, it helps the stomach empty. So even if the PH level is raised, it's not in the stomach long enough to make much difference. It's more important to have the SN still be SN and not NO when it gets to the intestines.

I'm still not seeing how skipping any sort of antacid or acid reducer makes things more peaceful.

Forgive me if I'm wrong. It's 5am. Am I just being stupid and completely misunderstanding the way all this works?

I really, really, really want someone to correct me if I'm wrong. I feel like I'm missing something. This part has always been hard to wrap my head around.

What I AM confident of is the entire method/protocol is like a puzzle where each piece does a specific thing to work together to make things as peaceful as possible. Nothing is there without a reason. So we also have to look at everything as a whole, not just pick it apart. A common theme in cases where people have bad experiences is substitutions and omissions.

!!!
even the updated version of the PPeH says that antacid aren't necessary. This is becoming way too confusing for me I didn't make good grades in school. I have trouble learning. I'm taking the antacid anyway I don't care what happens anymore. As long as it doesn't keep me conscious longer for whatever reason or counteract with the meto. Regardless I don't care even if I vomit I'm going to drink that second class

 

[Shu]

@Dot This is one of several post
Also according to the new PPH it days that aren't recommended at all

 

[Dot]

@Dot This is one of several post
Also according to the new PPH it days that aren't recommended at all

Apprci8

 

[Cathy Ames]

Damn it! There is so much conflicting information!

I think the underlying source of the problem is that people are lumping three different classes of medication into one category called "antacids." The actual "antacids" are the things like Tums, Rolaids, Maalox, etc. (and Milk of Magnesia if you don't mind the risk of diarrhea). But people are also using the term "antacids" while referring to the H2 blockers (examples: Pepcid, Tagament) and the proton pump inhibiters (example: Prilosec). Adding to that we are getting the information second or third hand. For example... someone says, "PPeH says that antacid aren't necessary," but perhaps what the PPeH really said (or meant to say) was that the H2 blockers and/or proton pump inhibitors aren't necessary. I don't know this. I'm not looking at the PPeH right now. But I've certainly seen people pass along really bad advice that was supposedly from their doctor because they completely misunderstood what the doctor actually said.

 

[Dot]

I think the underlying source of the problem is that people are lumping three different classes of medication into one category called "antacids." The actual "antacids" are the things like Tums, Rolaids, Maalox, etc. (and Milk of Magnesia if you don't mind the risk of diarrhea). But people are also using the term "antacids" while referring to the H2 blockers (examples: Pepcid, Tagament) and the proton pump inhibiters (example: Prilosec). Adding to that we are getting the information second or third hand. For example... someone says, "PPeH says that antacid aren't necessary," but perhaps what the PPeH really said (or meant to say) was that the H2 blockers and/or proton pump inhibitors aren't necessary. I don't know this. I'm not looking at the PPeH right now. But I've certainly seen people pass along really bad advice that was supposedly from their doctor because they completely misunderstood what the doctor actually said.

Dd wndr ths also

 

[Shu]

I think the underlying source of the problem is that people are lumping three different classes of medication into one category called "antacids." The actual "antacids" are the things like Tums, Rolaids, Maalox, etc. (and Milk of Magnesia if you don't mind the risk of diarrhea). But people are also using the term "antacids" while referring to the H2 blockers (examples: Pepcid, Tagament) and the proton pump inhibiters (example: Prilosec). Adding to that we are getting the information second or third hand. For example... someone says, "PPeH says that antacid aren't necessary," but perhaps what the PPeH really said (or meant to say) was that the H2 blockers and/or proton pump inhibitors aren't necessary. I don't know this. I'm not looking at the PPeH right now. But I've certainly seen people pass along really bad advice that was supposedly from their doctor because they completely misunderstood what the doctor actually said.

The supposed online updated version of PPeH says that antacid nor h2 blockers can be advised or something like that
Someone posted a screenshot in the SN megathread

 

[Dot]

The supposed online updated version of PPeH says that antacid nor h2 blockers can be advised or something like that

Stll thnk thy r makng up as g/ alng - am nt cnvncd tht Ext Int C nrly as mny s.n c.t.bs as sasu

 

[Shu]

Stll thnk thy r makng up as g/ alng - am nt cnvncd tht Ext Int C nrly as mny s.n c.t.bs as sasu

There is conflicting information but apparently not taking an antacid makes it more peaceful and speeds up the process to unconsciousness because of the nitric oxide

There is conflicting information but apparently not taking an antacid makes it more peaceful and speeds up the process to unconsciousness because of the nitric oxide

Think gonna take it just to be safe

 

[Cathy Ames]

There is conflicting information but apparently not taking an antacid makes it more peaceful and speeds up the process to unconsciousness because of the nitric oxide

Think gonna take it just to be safe

Ah. From what I can tell, most of the actual antacids interfere with propranolol (and meto, but the meto is taken earlier). I think the propranolol (that they advise) is contributing to the speediness.