MrBigSad

MrBigSad

Experienced
Sep 30, 2020
220
Hello, I know the recovery page is probably spammed with these messages. But recently I'm studying psychiatry and find depression not only something I've recently suffered from but find myself having a recent epiphany and wishing to try my best to help others. If you would like to talk about your current situation you can expect someone without judgement to try and understand your perspective from a semi-profrssional and totally anonymous standpoint . I will offer share information about my 2 previous attempts and current situation with you privately in confidence. Please feel free to reply to the thread or pm me. I wish you all the best
 
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L

Lordsudbury

Specialist
Jul 26, 2020
306
I'll talk
 
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Weather

Weather

Student
Oct 18, 2020
152
What's your epiphany?! Is it not something that can be shared publicly?
 
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MrBigSad

MrBigSad

Experienced
Sep 30, 2020
220
I am now q Christian sollopsist. I believe everyone is the same mind living different lives. When you die your body moves to an alternate reality
 
XYZ

XYZ

I just can’t get these damn wrists to bleed
Jul 22, 2020
800
So... this is a bit fishy.

You're saying you want to play the quasi-professional psychiatrist and offer some sort of conversational therapy based on what you're learning in med school and your revelations and experiences.

I think it can be quite dangerous (not to mention unethical) to offer people "semi-professional" advice on a suicide forum. A med student should know that.

Edit:

Perhaps you are not studying psychiatry which is something you specialize in after med school. Are you maybe taking a course in psychology? Perhaps that's what you mean.
 
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Weather

Weather

Student
Oct 18, 2020
152
This is exactly what I was thinking XYZ -- it would be unethical for a training physician to hold themselves out as a professional (or semi-professional) in psychiatry and solicit folks on a suicide forum to tell them their problems in private.
 
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MrBigSad

MrBigSad

Experienced
Sep 30, 2020
220
I simply find myself fascinated with depression in general. I would like to discuss with people their feelings of depression and understand it from an unbiased perspective. I don't care if you find that "fishy"
 
XYZ

XYZ

I just can’t get these damn wrists to bleed
Jul 22, 2020
800
Of course I understand you don't care I am calling you out on your unethical proposition. If you did, you would not come up with such a proposition in the first place.


I only replied to your thread because I am a regular user on this forum and I care about it enough to raise a red flag when I see someone claiming they are in med school (or a resident psychiatrist - unclear which) and they want to offer conversational therapy to other members.
 
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MrBigSad

MrBigSad

Experienced
Sep 30, 2020
220
If you see it as a red flag that's you're interpretation. I'm studying introduction to psychiatry from Yale and would like to have people/peoples to use as anonymous case studies. How Is that a red flag?
 
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Weather

Weather

Student
Oct 18, 2020
152
I'm studying introduction to psychiatry from Yale and would like to have people/peoples to use as anonymous case studies.

Do you mean you're taking the Open Yale "Introduction to Psychology" course?

ETA: Also, it's unethical to use human subjects in research in this kind of manner; anonymity isn't the issue.
 
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MrBigSad

MrBigSad

Experienced
Sep 30, 2020
220
And why not? How are we supposed to understand depression if people don't discuss their experiences?
 
XYZ

XYZ

I just can’t get these damn wrists to bleed
Jul 22, 2020
800
Do you mean you're taking the Open Yale "Introduction to Psychology" course?

ETA: Also, it's unethical to use human subjects in research in this kind of manner; anonymity isn't the issue.

Imagine the confusion of mixing up psychology and psychiatry, and the delusion of thinking you can carry out research in this manner, as long as your test subjects are anonymous. Yale is in big trouble :aw:
 
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Weather

Weather

Student
Oct 18, 2020
152
And why not? How are we supposed to understand depression if people don't discuss their experiences?

If you are studying at Yale for a doctoral degree (MD or PhD), you should know about IRB protocol which needs to review and approve any research involving human subjects. There are possible negative consequences to people from being subject to certain treatments (including discussion of trauma) and a plan needs to be developed and approved to ensure human safety as well as the boundaries of the research. Participants need to give informed consent to participate in a meaningful way where they acknowledge that they know the associated risks.

If you are not actually in a doctoral program -- representing yourself as a "semi-professional" studying psychiatry and willing to provide talk therapy in private -- this can be dangerous for those placing faith in you and can have unintended consequences (like re-traumatizing someone).

XYZ is very correct that this is a big red flag that could cause harm to people on this forum. That said, if you don't represent yourself as a professional or use people as "case studies" -- but simply want to talk with people, share experiences, etc., that's perfectly fine and the whole point of a forum.
 
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cii

cii

"Well, it's groundhog day. Again."
Oct 24, 2020
55
Yikes, you're gross. If Weather and XYZ hadn't pointed it out I wouldn't have ever realized what you are doing. We're not little guinea pigs that you can study for your college course, this is absolutely not the place for that. And it's disgusting that you didn't disclose that from the start, you're not here to help others at all, you're here to help yourself. Please, if you have an ounce of morality in you, stop doing this.
 
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MrBigSad

MrBigSad

Experienced
Sep 30, 2020
220
U understand that and also understand your concern. However psychology is the study of the minds process. U will never understand this without interaction with others. And speaking to others will greatly benefit my research. With the books I write or any subject studies including them I will pay them a reasonable amount for their involvement .
I am here to help others. I simply want to understand their situation from an unbiased perspective. Why is that so evil?
 
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Giraffey

Giraffey

Your Orange Crush
Mar 7, 2020
439
I am a professional hypnotherapist and belong to several professional bodies; common to membership of all, and to the profession in general, is a code of ethics. I also conduct research and have published case studies, but never in my wildest dreams would I look to a suicide forum for people to study, let alone offering people some form of pseudo-therapy.

There is a wealth of difference between asking people to complete an anonymous survey which may have a 'free text' element, and asking people to engage in personal conversations with you where it will be a mix of research and therapeutic dialogue. Don't forget how vulnerable people here are; ignoring the other dozen issues one may think of, what happens if one of the members you've offered therapy too as a 'semi-professional' then goes on to commit suicide? If their phone is downloaded post-mortem and a subpoena sent to SS for your IP address, you've just said goodbye to a career as a psychologist.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I occasionally get PMs from members here asking for advice, and I'm happy to provide that. But I respect the line between my professional work away from the site and my thoughts here that I provide in a non-professional context. Besides, you just can't conduct therapy in this setting and context, nor should you be blurring the line between research and therapy - especially as just a student.

I'm sorry but I find this all deeply troubling for personal and professional reasons, I hope that the staff will keep a close eye on this and more importantly that you will please seriously re-think this idea.

Edit: I'm re-reading this just to double-check I haven't misunderstood anything in the thread. I'm seeing certain worrying things. Talk of an "epiphany", I'm beginning to wonder if there is a religious conversion element to this. And as @Weather astutely pointed out above, where is your statement of ethical approval? How are you going to ensure informed consent among participants when it took questioning by other posters to reveal your true intent? There is just no defending this thread for me, it's a bad idea and I think it probably comes from a place of naivety than anything more sinister, but that matters not. I repeat my earlier sentiment, please re-think this idea.
 
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MrBigSad

MrBigSad

Experienced
Sep 30, 2020
220
Ethics is simply a matter of opinion. As I pointed out before how are we supposed to help people with suicidal thoughts unless we engage in conversation to better understand their condition? I have had 2 previous attempts and now wish to try my best to help people. I'm disappointed so many think this post has I'll intention. I simply want to understand others situations better. It's cool you are a hypnotherapist, that was my grandfather's profession
 
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Giraffey

Giraffey

Your Orange Crush
Mar 7, 2020
439
Ethics isn't a matter of opinion, it's a strict set of rules and procedures that are carefully thought out to ensure not only the safety and wellbeing of the participants involved but to protect you legally. I understand that you want to help people, I'm completely on board with that; as I said in my post, I do it myself when people PM for advice. But there is a very important line between informal help and advice and establishing a more formal therapeutic relationship. It's the latter that I am imploring you to resist.

I don't think you have any ill intention, I just think you are an over-eager student (trust me, been there, done that), that sense of having a breakthrough and wanting to change the world is noble, but as you will find when you mature as a student and as a professional, one must tread carefully.

Conducting research with vulnerable people is a particular area where no respected journal will touch you unless you have adhered to strict ethical conduct. I published some of the first research into treating a particular condition using specialised hypnotherapy, I won't go into details publically less you fish up my name. But that research consisted of a proposed clinical framework (manualised) and three case studies. For each case, I had written consent to use their anonymised data in my research and there were various legal hoops to jump through, this was before GDPR, if you're in Europe then there are now even more hoops to jump through. As you can probably infer, it wasn't as simple as the romantic notion we all have of helping people and making fascinating observations to publish, formal research is more involved and well, more formal... You can't cut corners, especially with ethics, that is the one place where there are definitely objective standards to which you must adhere.

If you can recognise and respect that line between being a 'recovery partner' let's say, which is more informal and comes without the responsibility and expectations of a formal relationship, then brilliant. My concern is that you aren't seeing that line, and that doesn't infer any ill-intent on your part; I just share the concerns with others about what you're proposing, particularly given how vulnerable people here are and the potential consequences if anything goes south.
 
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MrBigSad

MrBigSad

Experienced
Sep 30, 2020
220
Thank you for keeping me informed. I do believe you and understand your opinion. I simply want to observe others situations from an unbiased standpoint
 
Giraffey

Giraffey

Your Orange Crush
Mar 7, 2020
439
Thank you for keeping me informed. I do believe you and understand your opinion. I simply want to observe others situations from an unbiased standpoint

Then looking at that through an ethical lens, an anonymous survey would be the standard procedure. You would have to think about what questions you were going to ask based on what exact issue you were looking to research (attitude to suicide or reasons for committing suicide and not exploring alternative options for example), then you would need to think about the phrasing of the questions and whether the most appropriate response type was a Likert scale (5 point, 10 point etc) or free-text answers etc. You also need to make clear to people at the outset what the nature of your research is, include a disclaimer that personal questions relating to 'abuse' or whatnot will be asked which some people may find triggering (so people should be comfortable talking about this or decline to participate), and you should have the ability for people to opt-out at any time, or withdraw from the study after they've given their answers (sometimes people have a change of heart and want to delete their answers). Those are matters of ethics and indeed, if you are studying through a university, the school will have their own guidelines on such matters that you will need to follow and include a declaration that you have read and observed those standards.

What it sounds as though you were looking to do is more of a clinical interview through PMs, and again I can't see that being against the rules but the appropriateness would depend on your level of training and experience, and again, I would personally have some misgivings about that given how vulnerable people here are, the environment in general and the fact that you yourself are anonymous - that in itself raises ethical issues.

But as I have said above, I don't believe you have any bad intentions. I just worry that this is something you haven't really thought through - there's no shame in that, I was a student once, been there, done that, got a bollocking for it. But please do double-check any of your university's guidance on ethics and research, the absolute last thing you want is to involve someone on here in some research (even informally) and have something go wrong, perhaps they have a suicide attempt (whether successful or otherwise), which whilst unrelated to you still prompts an investigation by authorities or family members. You don't want your name associated with that, a complaint made to your university and being shouldered with any blame. I know that it seems to be an unlikely scenario, but I have seen it happen in other contexts.

It's one thing to do such research on Reddit, there is little harm in that, but the nature of this place @MrBigSad, it demands a far greater degree of caution and sensitivity. There are creeps here and people who want to do other members harm, there is perilously little to allow members to distinguish those who wish to identify the vulnerable and cause them harm, from the genuinely well-intentioned. I'm not going to continue to lecture you beyond this, I just hope that you'll pause, take a breath and give this project a little more thought.
 
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MrBigSad

MrBigSad

Experienced
Sep 30, 2020
220
Then looking at that through an ethical lens, an anonymous survey would be the standard procedure. You would have to think about what questions you were going to ask based on what exact issue you were looking to research (attitude to suicide or reasons for committing suicide and not exploring alternative options for example), then you would need to think about the phrasing of the questions and whether the most appropriate response type was a Likert scale (5 point, 10 point etc) or free-text answers etc. You also need to make clear to people at the outset what the nature of your research is, include a disclaimer that personal questions relating to 'abuse' or whatnot will be asked which some people may find triggering (so people should be comfortable talking about this or decline to participate), and you should have the ability for people to opt-out at any time, or withdraw from the study after they've given their answers (sometimes people have a change of heart and want to delete their answers). Those are matters of ethics and indeed, if you are studying through a university, the school will have their own guidelines on such matters that you will need to follow and include a declaration that you have read and observed those standards.

What it sounds as though you were looking to do is more of a clinical interview through PMs, and again I can't see that being against the rules but the appropriateness would depend on your level of training and experience, and again, I would personally have some misgivings about that given how vulnerable people here are, the environment in general and the fact that you yourself are anonymous - that in itself raises ethical issues.

But as I have said above, I don't believe you have any bad intentions. I just worry that this is something you haven't really thought through - there's no shame in that, I was a student once, been there, done that, got a bollocking for it. But please do double-check any of your university's guidance on ethics and research, the absolute last thing you want is to involve someone on here in some research (even informally) and have something go wrong, perhaps they have a suicide attempt (whether successful or otherwise), which whilst unrelated to you still prompts an investigation by authorities or family members. You don't want your name associated with that, a complaint made to your university and being shouldered with any blame. I know that it seems to be an unlikely scenario, but I have seen it happen in other contexts.

It's one thing to do such research on Reddit, there is little harm in that, but the nature of this place @MrBigSad, it demands a far greater degree of caution and sensitivity. There are creeps here and people who want to do other members harm, there is perilously little to allow members to distinguish those who wish to identify the vulnerable and cause them harm, from the genuinely well-intentioned. I'm not going to continue to lecture you beyond this, I just hope that you'll pause, take a breath and give this project a little more thought.
I really appreciate your concerns. Yes your right I haven't really thought it through. It's just I believe I have every right as a person to conduct such research, specially when I have been feeling suicidal myself and have 2 previous attempts.

My outlooks have changed and I have a more alturistic view of the people that inhabit this world, and wish you try my best to understand the human condition and help others where possible.
 
waived

waived

I am a sunrise
Jan 5, 2019
974
I am now q Christian sollopsist. I believe everyone is the same mind living different lives. When you die your body moves to an alternate reality

You mean solipsist.
 
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waived

waived

I am a sunrise
Jan 5, 2019
974
Exactly. Logically there is no way to know if you are not simply the same mind experiencing itself

It's just that you seriously misspelled it during your introductory pitch.
 
MrBigSad

MrBigSad

Experienced
Sep 30, 2020
220
Sollopsism is a totally valid word. It's the theology that we are all one mind experiencing itself
 
cii

cii

"Well, it's groundhog day. Again."
Oct 24, 2020
55
It's just I believe I have every right as a person to conduct such research, specially when I have been feeling suicidal myself and have 2 previous attempts.
I'm sorry that you have suffered. You'll find a lot of support with your personal struggles in this space. But you are not entitled to any details about anyone's life and struggles.
You're not here to vent or help anyone, you're here because you're seeking research participants. If you made that clear from the start I would have had no issue with you.
 
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MrBigSad

MrBigSad

Experienced
Sep 30, 2020
220
I understand and empathise with your opinion. I have no Ill intention. I simply want to understand more from a scientific and unbiased perspective how and why depression occurs and what may be beneficial to individuals suffering
 
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waived

waived

I am a sunrise
Jan 5, 2019
974
Sollopsism is a totally valid word. It's the theology that we are all one mind experiencing itself

Okay so in an effort to understand someone else on the internet and with a base understanding that internet search results suck and I am probably not the best at searching the internet because who could ever make such a claim- I found 3 pages and 57 search results for "sollopsism", which doesn't appear to be an actual word, with several references to the definition of the word "solipsism" which is an actual word and has 3 and 1/4 of a million results with the base definition of "the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.". Could you post a clarifying link?
 
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woxihuanni

woxihuanni

Illuminated
Aug 19, 2019
3,299
Okay so in an effort to understand someone else on the internet and with a base understanding that internet search results suck and I am probably not the best at searching the internet because who could ever make such a claim- I found 3 pages and 57 search results for "sollopsism", which doesn't appear to be an actual word, with several references to the definition of the word "solipsism" which is an actual word and has 3 and 1/4 of a million results with the base definition of "the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.". Could you post a clarifying link?

It is not even a theory because it cannot be falsified. It is just one of the fantasies philosphy people play with.
 
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D

Deleted member 1465

_
Jul 31, 2018
6,914
Last thing I would do would be to share anything (other than what I share openly anyway) with a psych student on a forum of this nature. Especially if they asked for it.

I simply want to observe others situations from an unbiased standpoint
You can do that quite easily here by reading the open forum, as can anyone on the internet. It really doesn't get more un-biased or earnest.
why depression occurs
1. Chronic depression.
2. Circumstantial depression
3. Existential depression
4. These all interact and often occur to varying degrees at the same time
5. Depression can be accompanied by deranged neurotransmitter levels, but this does not imply causality.
My outlooks have changed and I have a more alturistic view of the people that inhabit this world, and wish you try my best to understand the human condition and help others where possible.
That is admirable. You'll not find a better place on the internet to do that than here, where everything is boiled down to it's elements at the pointy end of life. Reading the forums may give you the best research you could wish for.

But I respect the line between my professional work away from the site and my thoughts here that I provide in a non-professional context.
I believe that's called integrity.
 
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