Discussion An Open Discussion on the Fear of Hell

[ExitStageLeft]

Guys....I appreciate all your thoughts and worries....but there is NOTHING once you die, no hell, no heaven...and that's the great beauty of it ! Total peaceful nothingness....what could be more beautiful? Stop worrying !

I am unconvinced, and I am an atheist.

There are too many possibilities for future continuation after death that are not metaphysical/spiritual in nature - from Boltzmann brains after the heat death of the universe to Poincare's Recurrence Theorem to the Omega Point simulating all existence after the end of the cosmos. I do not know what form I will exist in after this, but I am convinced now that I will exist again, and nothing to do with God or the afterlife.

 

[RayoSinSol]

If hell is real, then there's surely some relief to be found in the certainty of eternal torment. What really scared me about it was the doubt eating at my time on this earth.
Anyways, it seems unlikely to me. The Abrahamic faiths have only been around for a recent part of human history and there were many enlightened people who formed their own religious beliefs beforehand. The whole concept of hell reeks of a manmade control mechanism.

If you look closely, ideological Satanism has several advantages over Christianity.
For example, Satan in the satanism of LaVey is perceived as a symbol of worldview - a symbol of freedom, self-development, individualism and rebellion against injustice. While religions give us only limitations.
In many religions, the understanding of good and evil is very one-sided. Sinful holy fathers divide the world into black and white, while even before Christianity, people lived by conscience, and not by some stupid stereotypes.
For thousands of years, religion has destroyed science, art, and all possible freedoms. It was killing people, torturing them and giving false hopes. So why should we believe that hell exists? We are not some kind of obedient cattle who will blindly and thoughtlessly obey orders. If there is hell, then it is there...

"If there is hell, then it is there..."

In a strange way it gives me peace to just kind of feel, in my body, a peace with the infinite possibilities of what might come after death.

Right now, I'm building up momentum toward leaving, but there are still sharp little bits of hope that appear from nowhere and want to wake up something that really feels like it was burnt out a long time ago....

But if I do have to make that leap, "if there is Hell, then it is there." Just like the moon is just in the sky. I like it.

But, in the case of Hell, I see no direct evidence of it, like the moon in the sky. What I see, is evidence that the world humans have evolved into is ruled by matter evolving through entropy, and is mostly made of nothing at all.

And that is alarming to something that has evolved from these forces of entropy, INTO something that can perceive it, in EVERYTHING.

But the concept of hell is meant to be some kind of twisted redirecting of the feelings humans have about the nature of our existence, as something made of many parts that are constantly scrambling through nothingness into nothingness.

It's this little narrative that someone put up in the sky, like naming constellations - ascribing personal labels to a multi-faceted set of natural phenomena.

It's just, sometimes I feel like the circumstances of my life have made me a bit more vulnerable to having just the collective consciousness of TRUE believers' image of Hell burned so WELL into my mind that even though the concept seems ridiculous to me now, maybe some like traumatized little kid inside of me is still trying to understand it, for the sake of the people I had to depend on and still have to in some ways.

It's not even bad faith, it's more like some kind of actual mental scar that I just...don't know what to do with. I want to take a gamma knife to my memories of bible school and churches in general.

I thank you for your input. It really gave me food for thought.

 

[faust]

@RayoSinSol There is no need to believe in lies.

I will give you quotes from the "Genesis":

"1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.",

Lies! There was no water on Earth when it was shapeless and it was not dark because the Sun was "created" before the planets. And not vice versa.

"9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth,[d] and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good."

Lies! There was no water then.

"11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants[e] yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so. 1"

Lies! First trees appeared around 400-450 million years ago. 500 million years ago appeared first fish.

"16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness."

So the stars appeared with trees and grass? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, God did not know that the Sun is a star too and there are much older stars.

"20 And God said, "Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds[g] fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens." 21 So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good."

No, no, no. First bird was actually a bit of a dinosaur. God did not create the dinosaurs, they appeared on their own somehow...

Would you believe in hell now?

 

[Never Free]

@RayoSinSol There is no need to believe in lies.

I will give you quotes from the "Genesis":

"1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.",

Lies! There was no water on Earth when it was shapeless and it was not dark because the Sun was "created" before the planets. And not vice versa.

"9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth,[d] and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good."

Lies! There was no water then.

"11 And God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants[e] yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is their seed, each according to its kind, on the earth." And it was so. 1"

Lies! First trees appeared around 400-450 million years ago. 500 million years ago appeared first fish.

"16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. 17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness."

So the stars appeared with trees and grass? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA, God did not know that the Sun is a star too and there are much older stars.

"20 And God said, "Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds[g] fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens." 21 So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good."

No, no, no. First bird was actually a bit of a dinosaur. God did not create the dinosaurs, they appeared on their own somehow...

Would you believe in hell now?

I tend to take a more Swedenborgian view of it all. Short version or long one Swedenborg makes more sense to me. Also gives me more peace of mind, and have more compassion than other takes on Christianity. Though I think there's stuff people may take from it even if they don't believe or are unsure. It's close to secular humanism in many ways.

 

[DyslexicForeigner]

I tend to take a more Swedenborgian view of it all. Short version or long one Swedenborg makes more sense to me. Also gives me more peace of mind, and have more compassion than other takes on Christianity. Though I think there's stuff people may take from it even if they don't believe or are unsure. It's close to secular humanism in many ways.

I think Emanuel Swedenborg is miles closer to the universal truth than any bullsh!t religions out there (including Buddha!)

 

[toomuchtimetodie]

I am terrified of my consciousness transforming or any one of many possibilities. I'm also just disappointed if the 'one consciousness' theory is real.... For people who don't understand basically were all the same one thing that exists in eternity experiencing itself subjectively.
Quite frankly I'm open to the concept of anything because in the end existence to begin with SHOULD NOT BE so anything is possible... And as anti religion as I am I consider it a possibility and if that possibility is true I will burn for eternity. But compared to this world fuck, get used to the heat.... At least you'll know where you stand in hell.

I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. I was taught to believe that when you die that's it. Now I believe I currently am living in hell and anything is better then this and I also believe in reincarnation

You mean Jehovah's witnesses don't believe they can continue to be a pain in the arse after death?

 

[lofistos345]

Nothing like hell like living on earth

 

[dxnys]

I'm a catholic and I am mixed between the fear of the judgment of God and the attraction of God's love, mixed between old testament's God and new testament's God.
But my father did a lot of work about NDE, so I read him and all his work. It reassures me in the idea of God's love and his ways to forgive.
So I don't think all of us will burn for eternity in suffering. I think that we will mainly understand the Truth, see back our life with that vision, and choices to accept or not that. But that's only assumptions.

 

[lotus11]

Im in the same boat as you was brought up as a catholic but as I have got older it all seems a little ridiculous. I find religion very claustrophobic. People think it will bring you happiness and safety to cling onto the religious story I think. But its actually very freeing to let it go and be open-minded, be accepting of the fact that you don't know and will never know

 

[Never Free]

I think Emanuel Swedenborg is miles closer to the universal truth than any bullsh!t religions out there (including Buddha!)

I like that it combines a lot of religion too though. Less guilt as well than Catholicism for stuff like being judgemental at times, being suicidal, having coprolalia (including religiously taboo like God's name in vain).

 

[LonelyGhostDreamer]

I don't believe there is a heaven or a hell, I don't believe in god but I do believe there's something bigger than us out there. I had an idea explained to me and I've taken it on because it's beautiful and makes way more sense than the dogma in most modern religions.
When you die your whole life flashes before your eyes and you are judged, not if you've been good or bad but whether you've learnt the soul lesson for that cycle of life. If you haven't learned the lesson you are reborn to attempt to learn it, if you have learned the lesson you level up (so to speak) and move onto the next lesson. When you have learned all the lessons you no longer need to be born into a body, you become a "pure" soul made of light and serve as a guide to others on the journey. I've always loved the idea of reincarnation, I'm just hoping in my next life I come back as an animal, maybe a dog or a cat, or I'd love to be a panda!!

Im in the same boat as you was brought up as a catholic but as I have got older it all seems a little ridiculous. I find religion very claustrophobic. People think it will bring you happiness and safety to cling onto the religious story I think. But its actually very freeing to let it go and be open-minded, be accepting of the fact that you don't know and will never know

I look after a lot of people who have strong catholic or Christian beliefs and last year when I had an operation one lady said she would pray for me to get better and it was a very sweet and comforting thing to hear even though I don't believe in her religion. A lot of people find comfort and peace in religion and I've been lucky enough to have only met open minded people of religion, like they don't try and convert you or ram it down your throat. I know a vicar who does shots of Jaegermeister on a Sunday morning before mass and where I work we have a female minister come in every other Sunday to do a service for the people I care for and we chat about the occult, mediumship, ouija boards, Buddhism, reincarnation and all kinds of religious crap, but she doesn't judge me for my atheist outlook on life. We will never know for sure what happens when we die until it happens, but it's lovely when you can find people you can talk to about the different ideas without turning it into an argument where so err ones right and someone's wrong.

 

[ExitStageLeft]

You will exist in every possible iteration that it is possible for you to exist in. *Every single one*, forever. And "you" - your subjective conscious point of view - will exist in every single iteration that your biological brain reaches maturity in, though its experiences, memories, beliefs, and the actions shaped by these will render it *very* different at the end of each possible outcome.

Is this Hell? For some of you now. But you will all experience lives where you are *mostly* content or happy (in addition to infinite helllives). You will experience all *possible* states of you. Every probability that was ever there will be lived by you. And you are in consequence infinite.

The only caveat to this is that the nearest lives to you in time are likely to more closely resemble the life you're currently living than ones further out, with minor variations. But given enough time...

I almost joined the military once. In one lifetime I will successfully do so. In many, many lifetimes thereafter I will bottom out as a Private First Class or be killed in combat. In some universes I will go on to do various things in the military and retire from it. In some I will go on to become a colonel, and not a shitbag.

I was very religious as a child. In some of these lives I will become a pastor and get caught up in a sex scandal involving children. In some of them I will become a pastor and devote my life to helping others.

I have been very tempted to murder women. In some universes, I will go on to do just that. In some, I will become fascinated by my own morbidity and become a police officer (and maybe go on to murder women). In some I will repent and become... a pastor.

I have always lived in a community flooded with drug use. In some lives I'll become a user. In some of these I will go on to recovery, and from there to being an addiction therapist. In some I will die of an overdose. In some I will try to become a dealer, and probably fail.

And each of these lives will have infinite variations and gradations, for all of us, for all of you. There will be recurrences in which you do indeed exist as a Boltzmann brain at the heat death of the universe. There are some in which you will be simulated by a computer. There will be no end to you.

And it will be your consciousness, because it will be your brain, as a physical constant, even if there are hundred of quadrillions of universes between each iteration of your neurobiology, either where humanity never exists, or where your parents never meet, or an approximation of you exists but not you yourself. You will die, and awaken again in a time twenty thousand thousand thousand times the current lifespan of the universe from now, into an existence which appears roughly fourteen billion years old. All of this forever. True infinity. Everything possible, always.

And there are infinite parallel universes. Every action you didn't take, everything you could have done and didn't, all of these are occurring simultaneously, forever, in every universe. You are forever not only in this universe but in every other one.

You are everything, all the time.

 

[Notwinnernotawin]

I was baptized in a Catholic church. Growing up I always had a little of disbelief and I even had a phase where I did not believe in God. But then I've been through so much bad things that led me to believe that maybe there's one. I like to believe in you know, saints and angels. Brings some sort of comfort. But I do not believe in hell. If there's a hell, it's right here on earth. I believe we're beings evolving, and when we die we have to face what we did here on earth and then be born again to try and become a better version.
I don't believe that those who take their own lives are doomed into an eternal agony and all that stuff. If there's really a superior force, there's got to be understanding. No one kills themselves just for fun. It takes a lot of bravery to decide to quit suffering.