RayoSinSol

RayoSinSol

I can’t ignore the abyss. It is real.
Mar 26, 2020
108
Tell:

Maybe you could say I'm agnostic.

That said, I live in America, which is essentially a culture based on C*******n roots where many people are still C******n. It's essentially a C*******n country, though not explicitly by law. The same way English is not technically the official language, but poll a group of Americans about that and get back to me, ya know?
My region is particularly religious, though many people here are quite modest about their faith in public. But the influence of the religion is of course so strong here that even non-religious people often take on its language and attitudes in order to assimilate.

My upbringing was religious.

One of my earliest memories of being uncomfortable with religion was Bible Study at various evangelical churches, where we'd learn fun little stories about the A********e and H**l. Demons coming up slaughter us with swords at the end of the world, if we were not saved. Multi-appendage angel and demon creatures playing world-ending trumpets and killing all non-C*******n people in a variety of creative ways. All that jazz.

Well, that shit is permanently singed into my mind, even though my personal, conscious beliefs and logic have changed so much since then.
And I just can't escape reminders of the hegemony of Christian thought in my country anywhere I go. It's always leaking back into my subconscious by osmosis. That's the point of a religious system spreading all around the world, so that it is psychologically inescapable because it's symbology has seeped in everywhere.

Ask:

Specifically to non- believers (though anyone is of course free to share their thoughts), I just want to ask if anyone else is experiencing something similar.
Even though you know your beliefs have changed, experiencing dissonance and a lingering voice influenced by past indoctrination, being constantly reactivated by current events and everyday interactions with the world.

If I can just purge myself of someone else's fear of someone else's H**l once and for all, this whole process of finally liberating myself will be much easier.

Methods? Beliefs?

I appreciate all feedback.
 
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Yomyom

Yomyom

Darker dearie, much darker
Feb 5, 2020
923
My educated was Orthodox Jew, I left my religion three years ago.
I understand you, I'm so much scared to go to hell.
Sometimes I relax by listening to Alan Watts, sometimes I'm scared, and sometimes I just accept the fear accept hell.
Alan Watts-
 
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braketimez

braketimez

Specialist
Mar 15, 2020
340
I myself was raised religious. I no longer believe, but still fear hell in the case of CTB. I'm not sure how to alleviate this fear
 
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Squiddy

Squiddy

Here Lies My Hopes And Dreams
Sep 4, 2019
5,903
My parents didn't exactly raise me to be Christian, but my grandma is a hardcore Christian and she took me to church occasionally which she put her beliefs in me and now I'm afraid of going to hell which is one reason of me not ctb.
 
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Thinking Beyond

Thinking Beyond

Member
Mar 27, 2020
84
Thing is that he'll is real, but the catch is that the Christian hell is wrong. You can figure this out yourself if you read about near death experiences and astral projection.
 
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Nem

Nem

Drs suck mega ass!
Sep 3, 2018
1,489
Grew up catholic, wasn't molested by a priest luckily. Religion seems to be an institution of sorts, for the most part it seems okay but I'm not too sure about hell and fires burning my nuts off. Seems like a scare tactic
Peace/hugs
 
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gnomeboy17

gnomeboy17

Specialist
Feb 11, 2020
355
I just go by the probability that I'm doing other stuff wrong too, for example, I'm gay, and there's loads of other stuff in the Bible that I've broken (eg no eating shrimps) so if God really wanted to stick to the Bible, you'd probably find yourself in hell for other reasons. However, I'd like to think that due to god's "benevolence" he'd understand how severe the pain of living is for some people, and wouldn't punish them for wanting to end it.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
It's hard to be liberated when you're being controlled.

All of those evangelical indoctrination stories were to convince people to let the church control them.

I've been in such environments, and I've experienced spiritual control.

Now I don't believe in anything spiritual. Nothing supernaturally good ever saved me, nothing supernaturally evil ever befell me. I remained a Christian for years after I stopped believing, just in case hell was real, and I felt so free when I let that fear go. I still pray to my idea of something good, knowing it doesn't exist, but it soothes me to do so.
 
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Hollow Point

Hollow Point

A̵l̷w̷a̷y̸s̷ ̷t̸i̸r̵e̸d̶
Mar 24, 2020
120
The idea of a eternal damnnation was, and still is, a useful scare tactic to get people to have faith in god. I'm not judging anybody who's religious, but I myself could never get behind a belief that burns you in fire for eternity for not following their rules.

I do belive something happens after death, but if you're not religious, this fear shouldn't even be on your radar. If it bugs you that bad, repent on your death bed ha. But seriously...faith is the only thing connecting us to these ideas, so if you dont have faith, then why worry.

If I end up to be wrong and I'm swimming in a lake of hell fire for the rest of time, drinks are on me for whoever shows up.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
If I'm wrong and I'm swimming in a lake of hell fire for the rest of time, drinks are on me for whoever shows up.

Martinis rimmed with SN.
 
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Lost in a Dream

Lost in a Dream

He/him - Metal head
Feb 22, 2020
1,771
My grandparents were the ones who brought me to church as a kid and teenager and I became a Christian when I was about 13, I think. I stopped believing when I was 18, but since then I have gone back and forth between some sort of god belief and atheism a few times. Even though neither of my parents believed in the Christian religion, they allowed my grandparents to take me there to be brainwashed, for reasons I can only guess. Maybe they were trying to keep the peace by not telling my grandparents no or maybe they didn't give a shit about it, I'm really not sure.

All I know is, the fear of hell that I have is one of the things that keeps me from ending my own life. The other reason is that I have a couple of family members who are pro-life ONLY because of their own fear of hell and they would be devastated if I were to CTB now because in their minds, I would end up being tortured forever for doing so. I feel like I have to wait for them to die naturally before I can end my own life, but I don't know how long of a wait this could be.

All I can say for sure is, if there really is a hell and I end up going there because I ended my own life, then I am at least far more benevolent than whatever supernatural thug created it. Infinite torment for finite crimes is sadistic, regardless of whether or not the deity doing it arbitrarily defined it as justice. It is especially terrible when this punishment is given for many of the victimless crimes that are condemned in the Bible, such as consensual same sex relationships, doing unnecessary work on the Sabbath, and not being married if you have sex in general. If it is true that there is a god who is going to torture people forever for things that don't cause any harm to anyone (with the only exception being that you offended an omnipotent dictator's ego), then in my opinion, I would much rather BE in hell than bow the knee to such a monster. When I think of it that way, I don't feel quite as afraid about it. It takes a lot of courage to stand up for what you believe in, especially if the one you're standing up to is an all-powerful tyrant.

With all that being said, I don't really know if there is a hell or not and I don't know if any gods exist either, but I do find it hard to believe that the universe managed to exist without the intervention of some sort of intelligent designer. I don't necessarily think that this intelligent thing is benevolent, but I don't really believe that it's as terrible as the god of the Bible (at least I hope it isn't). Either way, if there is a god and I get to meet it in person someday, I'm going to tell it to fuck itself. It can do whatever it wants to me afterwards, I don't really care, but that is what will happen. My fear will be overcome with anger and I will tell the god that created this shithole of a world exactly what I think of it. If there is no god, then I guess I'll just stop existing.
 
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oneside

oneside

Member
Mar 22, 2020
83
I'm not christian but, if it comes to be true, I will know for sure that we are ruled by evil. There is no point in this whole concept of hell.
 
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Lost in a Dream

Lost in a Dream

He/him - Metal head
Feb 22, 2020
1,771
Thing is that he'll is real, but the catch is that the Christian hell is wrong. You can figure this out yourself if you read about near death experiences and astral projection.

NDEs are called "near death" for a reason and they should not be considered as valid evidence for what happens after this life is over. People don't die until AFTER their brain shuts down because even after the heart stops pumping blood, the dying brain continues to function, even though it's being starved of oxygen. During this process, the brain could cause people to see and experience all sorts of crazy things, therefore, experiences that happen during that time are not good evidence of the afterlife.

No one will really know what happens until after they die and there is no longer any brain activity. Even if people came back from brain death and shared their experiences, there is no way of knowing if they aren't just remembering the things they experienced while their brain was still in the process of shutting down. The time to believe in a heaven or a hell is after the process is over and there is no coming back from it. Then it will be obvious what actually exists after we die, but until then, it's a mystery and we can't do anything but speculate about it.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
My educated was Orthodox Jew, I left my religion three years ago.
I understand you, I'm so much scared to go to hell.
Sometimes I relax by listening to Alan Watts, sometimes I'm scared, and sometimes I just accept the fear accept hell.
Alan Watts-


Not sure how much you know about Alan Watts. I've studied Buddhism, and a while back I listened to him on YouTube and he was inaccurate about some fundamental Buddhist concepts, yet spoke so authoritatively. So I did some research on him, and he himself claimed to be a "spiritual entertainer," not a reliable expert.

So I recommend listening to Alan Watts when one wants to be entertained, not when one is seeking serious guidance.

Not trying to negate you, @Yomyom, just sharing my opinion because I hate to see anyone unduly influenced by disinformation.
 
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braketimez

braketimez

Specialist
Mar 15, 2020
340
Not sure how much you know about Alan Watts. I've studied Buddhism, and a while back I listened to him on YouTube and he was inaccurate about some fundamental Buddhist concepts, yet spoke so authoritatively. So I did some research on him, and he himself claimed to be a "spiritual entertainer," not a reliable expert.

So I recommend listening to Alan Watts when one wants to be entertained, not when one is seeking serious guidance.

Not trying to negate you, @Yomyom, just sharing my opinion because I hate to see anyone unduly influenced by disinformation.

Spiritual entertainment doesn't mean spiritual lies.
 
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FohPah

FohPah

Student
Dec 7, 2019
146
I'm a naturalist, and yet the idea of hell still haunts me just a little bit. It used to be a big reason why I was too afraid to question my own worldview, let alone contemplate death. Now it's more like the kind of ghost story that makes us uncomfortable in the dark even when we know there's nothing there.

It helps to remember that:
  • There are so many popular (and contradictory) ideas of the afterlife, that any one idea is probably wrong
  • Ideas of final judgement, and especially ideas of a personal god, are indistinguishable from any of the other imaginative ways that humans anthropomorphize the cosmos
  • The Christian idea of hell, specifically, comes from an anthology that's very obviously stitched together from myths and made-up "prophecies"
  • There's no indication that the mind is anything other than a biochemical process, which ends at death
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
Spiritual entertainment doesn't mean spiritual lies.

As I said, I found fundamental inaccuracies in his entertainment. Therefore I personally wouldn't rely on him for guidance when in actual need. Especially when trying to break free from controlling indoctrination.
 
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Yomyom

Yomyom

Darker dearie, much darker
Feb 5, 2020
923
Not sure how much you know about Alan Watts. I've studied Buddhism, and a while back I listened to him on YouTube and he was inaccurate about some fundamental Buddhist concepts, yet spoke so authoritatively. So I did some research on him, and he himself claimed to be a "spiritual entertainer," not a reliable expert.

So I recommend listening to Alan Watts when one wants to be entertained, not when one is seeking serious guidance.

Not trying to negate you, @Yomyom, just sharing my opinion because I hate to see anyone unduly influenced by disinformation.
Well I don't agree with you at all, but it's okay.
I've been listening to Alan Watts for about 3-4 years, only short lectures, can't listen too long to anything.
He is literally helped me through so much on those years, and helped to so many people.
I know what he said, but Alan Watts used a lot in humor, and beside it doesn't mean anything to me.
I admire his philosophy on life, and I wish ill had the power to encourage it
I agree with him on 99% of everything he sayssays, didn't really find something wrong in his lectures, just a great philosopher (I'm an avid fan of his).

The biggest talent he had was to explain such complicated things, I tried to find other Philosophers with such a good explaining talent but there was none (maybe, only maybe terence mckenna)

As I said, I found fundamental inaccuracies in his entertainment. Therefore I personally wouldn't rely on him for guidance when in actual need. Especially when trying to break free from controlling indoctrination.
Don't forget that Alan Watts was covering a lot of different religions and method, so it is totally normal to have some problems, but from what I know he did a wonderful job.


Not trying to negate you, @Yomyom, just sharing my opinion because I hate to see anyone unduly influenced by disinformation.
Totally understand :heart:
 
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Sensei

Sensei

剣道家
Nov 4, 2019
6,336
To be honest, I never thought of hell before I came here and noticed that people talk about it and fear it. Such things can be contagious.
 
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Jumper Geo

Jumper Geo

Life's a bitch and then you die.
Feb 23, 2020
2,910
Tell:

Maybe you could say I'm agnostic.

That said, I live in America, which is essentially a culture based on C*******n roots where many people are still C******n. It's essentially a C*******n country, though not explicitly by law. The same way English is not technically the official language, but poll a group of Americans about that and get back to me, ya know?
My region is particularly religious, though many people here are quite modest about their faith in public. But the influence of the religion is of course so strong here that even non-religious people often take on its language and attitudes in order to assimilate.

My upbringing was religious.

One of my earliest memories of being uncomfortable with religion was Bible Study at various evangelical churches, where we'd learn fun little stories about the A********e and H**l. Demons coming up slaughter us with swords at the end of the world, if we were not saved. Multi-appendage angel and demon creatures playing world-ending trumpets and killing all non-C*******n people in a variety of creative ways. All that jazz.

Well, that shit is permanently singed into my mind, even though my personal, conscious beliefs and logic have changed so much since then.
And I just can't escape reminders of the hegemony of Christian thought in my country anywhere I go. It's always leaking back into my subconscious by osmosis. That's the point of a religious system spreading all around the world, so that it is psychologically inescapable because it's symbology has seeped in everywhere.

Ask:

Specifically to non- believers (though anyone is of course free to share their thoughts), I just want to ask if anyone else is experiencing something similar.
Even though you know your beliefs have changed, experiencing dissonance and a lingering voice influenced by past indoctrination, being constantly reactivated by current events and everyday interactions with the world.

If I can just purge myself of someone else's fear of someone else's H**l once and for all, this whole process of finally liberating myself will be much easier.

Methods? Beliefs?

I appreciate all feedback.

We are already in HELL so anything after ctb is a bonus.
 
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D

Deleted member 1465

_
Jul 31, 2018
6,914
 
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Thinking Beyond

Thinking Beyond

Member
Mar 27, 2020
84
NDEs are called "near death" for a reason and they should not be considered as valid evidence for what happens after this life is over. People don't die until AFTER their brain shuts down because even after the heart stops pumping blood, the dying brain continues to function, even though it's being starved of oxygen. During this process, the brain could cause people to see and experience all sorts of crazy things, therefore, experiences that happen during that time are not good evidence of the afterlife.

No one will really know what happens until after they die and there is no longer any brain activity. Even if people came back from brain death and shared their experiences, there is no way of knowing if they aren't just remembering the things they experienced while their brain was still in the process of shutting down. The time to believe in a heaven or a hell is after the process is over and there is no coming back from it. Then it will be obvious what actually exists after we die, but until then, it's a mystery and we can't do anything but speculate about it.
Well it's pretty hard to sway me as I've had an astral projection OBE myself.
 
Jumper Geo

Jumper Geo

Life's a bitch and then you die.
Feb 23, 2020
2,910
Well it's pretty hard to sway me as I've had an astral projection OBE myself.

I have researched NDE and Rebirth for years I believe there is something after death but at the end of the day if there is nothing who cares we won't, lol. Here are a couple of old cases you might enjoy.



 
F

frostedreef

Captain Nemo
Feb 21, 2020
52
I myself was raised religious. I no longer believe, but still fear hell in the case of CTB. I'm not sure how to alleviate this fear

There's nothing in the Bible that condemns suicide. The closest is thou shall not kill on the 10 commandments. Regardless, I'm sure NO one here can claim they haven't violated any of the other 9. Just pray for God to forgive right before CTB.
 
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Yomyom

Yomyom

Darker dearie, much darker
Feb 5, 2020
923
There's nothing in the Bible that condemns suicide. The closest is thou shall not kill on the 10 commandments. Regardless, I'm sure NO one here can claim they haven't violated any of the other 9. Just pray for God to forgive right before CTB.
I'm not familiar with The New Testament, but in the old one it's not true, there isn't a lot but it's still exist
הַעִדֹתִי בָכֶם הַיּוֹם, אֶת-הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֶת-הָאָרֶץ–הַחַיִּים וְהַמָּוֶת נָתַתִּי לְפָנֶיךָ, הַבְּרָכָה וְהַקְּלָלָה; וּבָחַרְתָּ, בַּחַיִּים–לְמַעַן תִּחְיֶה, אַתָּה וְזַרְעֶךָ

In the The Biblical Period suicide was very rare, so it make sense not to here about it so much in the Bible
 
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Jumper Geo

Jumper Geo

Life's a bitch and then you die.
Feb 23, 2020
2,910
Fuck the Bible it was created by man to corrupt man and exploit women, OMG, it doesn't surprise me a man wrote about a women destroying everyone's happiness by eating a bloody Apple, lol Very funny apples are really good for you and to be honest if there is a god and it was true I would say send me to Hell and the Devil, you petty cunt.

Check out these links if there was really any proof of heaven or hell do you think they would have done what they did. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=pediphile+priests+and+nuns

Cheers Geo
 
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Throwmyselfaway

Throwmyselfaway

Not gone yet but soon
Jan 14, 2020
798
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. I was taught to believe that when you die that's it. Now I believe I currently am living in hell and anything is better then this and I also believe in reincarnation
 
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