Venting An example of pro-life bullshittery on reddit

[TAW122]

In this thread on Reddit, a guy was asking a legitimate question in regards to his rights should he ever be faced with a situation called involuntary commitment. He is met with skepticism, gas-lighting, guilt-tripping, and even questioning his mental state, all of which are patronizing and condescending when ALL he did was ask a legitimate question hoping to get "actual" legal answers. Mind you, this occurs a lot even on the so called subreddit called "legal advice".

Comments like these (shown below) are some of the reasons why some people don't even seek help and sometimes even CTB.

From the user, thepatman:
By definition, involuntary commitment is done without your permission and only in situations where you object. More specifically, in situations where your ability to make good decisions for yourself is compromised.
A 72-hour hold, or whatever it ends up being in in the jurisdiction you're in, is going to be difficult to stop once it's started.
Realistically, unless you have or develop severe mental illness, involuntary holds are extremely unlikely to crop up in your life. Really, extremely unlikely. In the situations where they do, most people get treated and released very quickly. And if you're not, its likely because you need to be there.

Not only is it condescending, it is also very presumptuous to assume and assert that the person asking the question is wrong. He also tried to dodge the question and what not by going off on a slight tangent about "involuntary commitment" and what not. Yes, legally there is a difference between a 72-hour hold vs a longer detainment (requiring an court order), but either way, it is still a gross violation of freedom and civil rights.

From the user, kiserai:
I don't know Colorado laws. In the states I've worked, an involuntary commitment required much more than a statement by a random person. It required a licensed professional (doctor, psychologist, etc) do an assessment and document the reason why a person was such a risk to himself or others that a 72-hour hold was justified. Keeping someone beyond that would require a court order.
Unless Colorado is completely off the rails, it's not done lightly.
If you meet that (high) standard, there is not much you can do to stop the doctors from treating you. This is by design and generally a good thing.

A stupid user condoning and sanctioning this barbaric act of practice, assuming that all involuntary commitments are just and correct (which they aren't). People like him/her are the reasons why there are people who won't seek help when they otherwise may (for fear of being locked up against one's will and loss of freedom, civil rights).

(User unknown - was deleted)
I'm thinking you might instead want to just talk to a counselor once or twice. Some things in your post and this reply make me think you might have a slight issue with paranoia. A lot of people do and life is much more fun once you've dealt with the root causes of those feelings.

Yet another user gaslighting and even being presumptuous as to question the asker's mental health.

At any rate, these comments are just examples of how the pro-life bullshit society runs and even for people who are looking to find "actual" resources in order to protect themselves from harm (involuntary treatment against their will) and violation of their rights, they are being shunned, treated like a problem rather than being given actual advice and leaving it be. I thought that perhaps some people will be aware of that even for those who are 'seeking legal advice' to protect themselves from abuse of power from the institutions and people in charge are even being under attack (bullied, persecuted, and more). There really is (almost) no defense if even the constructs that are set to protect against this type(s) of abuse are moot and useless at best. Yes, reddit is a fucking joke for the most part, but that's another topic altogether.

 

[Lost in a Dream]

I like the answer that the deleted user gave about setting up a power of attorney. They gave information, without making assumptions about the person asking the question. It would be nice if everyone was like that, but unfortunately, too many people just assume things and jump to conclusions about things they know nothing about and it pisses me off, whether they are Pro-lifers or something else.

Also, as far as I am concerned, Reddit is only good for one thing - memes.

 

[DoNotLet2]

It is so much fuckin sad that some people are dying because other people trying to prevent them from dying.
I don't understand why the life is the highest value for most people. Nothing above life. I just mean that it's not the best way too look at the problem.

 

[Sail_to_Infinity]

People have a genetically conditioned disability of changing the world around them in a way they think would be better. It's a double-edged sword, without this feature we would probably still be living in caves. However, if nature worked in this way, life as we know it would never arise.

 

[TAW122]

I like the answer that the deleted user gave about setting up a power of attorney. They gave information, without making assumptions about the person asking the question. It would be nice if everyone was like that, but unfortunately, too many people just assume things and jump to conclusions about things they know nothing about and it pisses me off, whether they are Pro-lifers or something else.

Also, as far as I am concerned, Reddit is only good for one thing - memes.

True and while I peruse reddit semi-frequently, I do it for other purposes and also to gain knowledge of various other things (outside of CTB).

It is so much fuckin sad that some people are dying because other people trying to prevent them from dying.
I don't understand why the life is the highest value for most people. Nothing above life. I just mean that it's not the best way too look at the problem.

Religious indoctrination and other cultural practices from ancient times that carried over to the modern day is a big part of why people have life as the highest value (as much as we don't agree with them). I'd say that even psychiatry and religion are two sides of the same coin (religion being liturgical while psychiatry being secular), but that's another topic for another time.

People have a genetically conditioned disability of changing the world around them in a way they think would be better. It's a double-edged sword, without this feature we would probably still be living in caves. However, if nature worked in this way, life as we know it would never arise.

That is true and while it has done many things to progress humanity as a whole, it has (at least in modern times) hindered the people who don't wish to continue living (a good amount of people on here and even those who are in the shadows). The concept of rights is a modern one, as one user once mentioned.

 

[Meretlein]

This is one reason prolifers hate SS, Callie's report even accused SS of teaching people how to mislead mental health professionals.

We don't teach people how to lie, we teach them how to avoid being kidnapped and then being forced to pay for the "experience".

 

[TAW122]

We don't teach people how to lie, we teach them how to avoid being kidnapped and then being forced to pay for the "experience".

Well said. Far too many times have mental health professionals (MHPs) operate under the guise of 'care' and either lie to their patients, make false promises, and/or even give bad information, thus tricking the patients into admitting themselves when they otherwise wouldn't. If anything, these MHPs don't ever tell the patient what would happen (both to the patient's freedom and civil rights as well as finances and aftermath, fallout) if/should they be committed. I think all patients need to know what COULD happen that leads to being kidnapped, involuntarily commited, or even temporarily held for up to 72 hours (3 full days), and also what happens during and after the ordeal. The psychiatric industry is mostly a twisted industry and only seeks to make profits while oppressing people.

 

[seafarer]

This sort of thing was one of my fears in the UK,since I get disability benefits including housing payments for my rent. So if you get hospitalised for more then 28 days most of youtlr benefits get stopped so you come out after a free months and have got no money and have to go thru threprocess of getting payments started again. I looked into it this week as I was curious and apparently the housing rent part does continue to be paid for 52 weeks. But even then it's not normally enought of a payment to cover the whole cost of rent and doesn't include bills so you get released from a long stay and find out you have no money as it's been stopped or just as bad they have kept paying you so things have been paid on time but then they tell you that you have to pay all that money back whilst you got while sick in hospital or mental hospital. That part of the reason I didn't try to get put in a facility for help or whatever because it would cost me my benefits then add all the stress when being released of having to jump thru hoops to get paid again,and at that point I assumed the housing benefit also stopped at 28 days like the others so as really scared of being kept in and them losing the place I live due to no rent being paid. This also applies to normal hospital stays so if you claim benefits and say have a bad accident after 28 days in hospital they stop your benefits because obviously you don't need money because you are in hospital....it's not like all the bills and credit card debts go away just because had accident. So that's cause slot of people to become homeless or in major debt and get bad credit rating because they got stuck in hospital so government stopped paying them.or asked for it all back once you get out etc. So you get punished for getting sick or being hospitalised. Ok UK rant over. Sorry for that

 

[TAW122]

@seafarer No don't apologize, it's actually really important information about the UK mental health system as not many people (who are out of the UK) know about it, so spreading information and awareness about the shittiness will help people be aware of how broken it is and not just limited to the US. Anyways, it seems like the only "slightly" positive thing (if ever) would be that some countries with socialized healthcare means the patient wouldn't end up with a insurmountable hospital and medical bill that he/she has to pay. Other than that, the loss of freedom, stigma that goes along with it, and a record is still a harrowing experience and mental health systems around the world still sucks.

 

[TAW122]

Bump, and as a reminder, pro-lifers are some of the most presumptuous people around, assuming that anyone who doesn't like life is either hurt (in need of pity and scorn), mentally ill (must fix said person), and/or just wrong and need to be helped. To this day, I still feel some resentment and anger knowing that there are more people (not only this poor guy who got gaslighted for thinking and believing what he believed in.

I'd say it's not wrong nor paranoid for someone to be 'curious' and wanting to be prepared for worst case scenarios. (e.g. No one bats any eye or even challenges someone for asking what to do to protect themselves in a police interrogation or any other situation where their freedom, rights, liberties are on the line). I like that the OP in that thread countered with such a statement:

This is what the OP (u/MakesShittyQuestions) said in response to the gaslighting prolifer:

No, I don't. Paranoia must be caused by delusions, not a fear of hypothetical scenarios. As I said, I don't think anyone out there wants to commit me, I want to know what rights I have if someone does.
Also, I wouldn't say that "someone is so paranoid they decided to ask a question on the Internet" is a very convincing argument. I said it reinforces my point because I cited part on the Rosenhan experiment below, which stated that:

Hospital notes indicated that staff interpreted much of the pseudopatients' behavior in terms of mental illness. For example, one nurse labeled the note-taking of one pseudopatient as "writing behavior" and considered it pathological.

Basically, once they expect that someone is mentally ill, their actions are taken as psychiatric symptoms, even when there are better explanations. When I mentioned mental disability in my topic, you started taking some of the things I wrote as signs of it, even though it is not at all related to paranoia. Do you believe that every Redditor with a new and shiny conspiracy theory suffers froma mental disorder?

Pretty much spoken like a champ imho. I'd say the same thing in response to a pro-lifer too (albeit in different words and maybe with more rudeness due to their presumptuous attitudes).

 

[pentobarbitaldreams]

I was involuntarily hospitalized literally because my mom grew suspicious because I was looking at flowers in my backyard. That's it. Wasn't threatening anybody (including myself). I was functioning fine otherwise. History will vindicate victims of psychiatry.

 

[_Minsk]

its everywhere, people are so damn stupid nowadays it drives me crazy.. these guys should be locked up at psych wards..mad world..