Am i the only one that believes death isn't the worst thing to happen to someone?

[thetwilightzone]

Or the loss of someone isn't that bad (provided they didn't die being violently murdered).

Ever since I became suicidal, I've learned that people who think like this are in the minority. Not just the prospect of ones own death but the death of others as well. I know someone who died by suicide and didn't go to their funeral because I don't like gathering to mourn, never understood the concept but when I heard the news, I was a bit shocked but definitely didn't feel the guilt that many "suicide survivors" claim to.

This seems to be an extremely unpopular opinion in society. I don't expect people to think the way I do but I absolutely hate the way the mainstream view of death and death of others is shoved down our throats. When I say that the death of someone isn't bad people will say to me "You've probably never lost someone" which I have. It doesn't seem acceptable to be okay with death in our society if it's not a "natural death" in old age.

Can't wait to escape this fucking cult called society. Hope the next war devastates all of humanity and reduces it to ash. Even the good people unfortunately because I believe the only way to prevent human suffering is for no more humans to be born

 

[Tiburcio]

I completely agree with you and I truly believe in death and extinction as solution too.

Unfortunately, I lost an important person and I felt bad for it. Being objective I shouldn't be sad, that person is now free, no more pain but such strong feelings act apart our rational thoughts. It can hurt but people must assume death as something good once at all.

Can't wait to escape this fucking cult called society. Hope the next war devastates all of humanity and reduces it to ash. Even the good people unfortunately because I believe the only way to prevent human suffering is for no more humans to be born

This is my favourite part.

I also want extinction but not only for humans: nature is an horrible place too and I think everything wluld be better dead, human or not human.

Existence automatically implies constant competence and struggles for everybody, so again, death isn't something negative.

 

[KCN]

Nonexistence is dignity.

When we're alive, we succumb to basically everything, get dissatisfaction more often than satisfaction (happiness is also ephemeral, so I guess that it doesn't solve anything in particular), we have to struggle 24/7 to get a grasp on basically nothing at all.

My only wish is that a natural catastrophe wipes out everything.
The fun thing is that it will actually happen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe

the only downside is that I won't witness it, I'll be less than ashes by that time, but I guess that it's the final goal that counts.

 

[Vvoiid]

I love this thread.

 

[Ashpac]

Its weird you say that because I think the same everyday. In order for the earth to be better off, humans need to stop existing.

I dont mind animals on the earth but even they suffer and die. So if nothing existed, in the long run, it would probably be better off.

 

[comfortablydumb]

Ever since I became suicidal, I've learned that people who think like this are in the minority.

Why does that surprise you in any way? It should have been very obvious.

This seems to be an extremely unpopular opinion in society.

Obviously. The vast majority of people find it upsetting and saddening to lose their near and dear to death. Humans have been wired like that since before they evolved into humans. Even some non-primate animals seem to display these reactions.

I don't expect people to think the way I do but I absolutely hate the way the mainstream view of death and death of others is shoved down our throats.

It isn't "shoved down" anyone's throats. You may feel like it is, but no-one campaigning to avoid suicide is under any moral obligation to consider that you might happen to catch wind of what they're doing.

When I say that the death of someone isn't bad people will say to me "You've probably never lost someone" which I have. It doesn't seem acceptable to be okay with death in our society if it's not a "natural death" in old age.

It's a reasonable assumption for them to think you've never lost someone, since the vast majority of people react in a certain way to that loss. That they happen to be wrong about you doesn't mean anything - there's always rare exceptions to nearly everything.

And for most people, death isn't okay unless natural. That's how they deeply feel, and it's understandable that they're not interested in perspectives that they find fundamentally abhorrent.

Can't wait to escape this fucking cult called society. Hope the next war devastates all of humanity and reduces it to ash. Even the good people unfortunately because I believe the only way to prevent human suffering is for no more humans to be born

The cult won't miss you. The best way to be an unsympathetic suicide victim is to be so petty and spiteful that you wish misery upon others just because you feel bad.

As for your belief on the only way to prevent human suffering:

1. It's longsince been formulated much better and less hatefully by antinatalist philosophers.

2. All of the great human tragedies have been caused by solipsistic assholes who think they know what's best for everyone else.

 

[Final Escape]

It depends on the situation. Death can be terribly sad and tragic. Yes life can too but life is suffering and the purpose is to try to set your life up in a way to minimize the suffering or make it at least manageable.

 

[wanttodie]

I completely agree with you and I truly believe in death and extinction as solution too.

 

[Imaginos]

Only a fool thinks death is the worst thing that can happen to them. There are fates far, FAR worse. Life has been quite generous in that regard. As far as I'm concerned, every death should be a time for celebration, every birth should be a time for mourning. We have everything completely fucking backwards, though it's hardly surprising. Humans simply aren't rational, or logical beings. We're animals, driven by crude biological forces, where life, any kind of life, is seen as pristinely good, and losing it as some unspeakable tragedy. Also, people, by and large, don't look at the bigger picture, nor do they really want to. They just follow their base programming (as laid out by the DNA molecule) grunting, shuffling & belching their way to the grave. That's about it. Our culture, dogmas, & various other shared delusions, are all in service to that.

The next time you meet someone who thinks death is the ultimate misfortune, just ask them to look up the mind rending story of Hiashi Ouchi (WARNING: VERY HAUNTING, GRUESOME & MIGHT EVEN GIVE YOU NIGHTMARES). Let's see if they'd trade places with him to avoid death. I'd highly doubt it.

 

[Lucas]

What I've gathered about the fear of death is that one reason why humans fear death is that it's so out of place in modern world.

I guess what I'm trying to say that I'm not really sure if nature, evolution and universe really even meant that the humans would have so much danger-free time as we do. The whole point was just to be like any other animal and then die, but once we managed to build a safe place for us, it also meant we had more time to think about the world, meaning of life and death. And that also caused us to pay much more attention to death, maybe even unhealthy amount.

So that's why in today's world death is a big bad monster and a sad thing. the big unknown.

And just to add, dying is not the worst thing. The worst thing is actually continuing to live if your situation is permanently bad due health reasons or other factors. Then it's just a living nightmare.

 

[BlackDragonof1989]

I personally am an antinatalist, and while I don't necessarily agree in hoping the next war wipes all of humanity out, I do support voluntary human extinction, despite some problems it might present with the last people living needing health care and such, but by that point AI may be able to provide these things so there's no need to reproduce and therefore gamble a life.

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

Life was the worst thing that happened to me. :(

 

[comfortablydumb]

What I've gathered about the fear of death is that one reason why humans fear death is that it's so out of place in modern world.

I guess what I'm trying to say that I'm not really sure if nature, evolution and universe really even meant that the humans would have so much danger-free time as we do. The whole point was just to be like any other animal and then die, but once we managed to build a safe place for us, it also meant we had more time to think about the world, meaning of life and death. And that also caused us to pay much more attention to death, maybe even unhealthy amount.

So that's why in today's world death is a big bad monster and a sad thing. the big unknown.

And just to add, dying is not the worst thing. The worst thing is actually continuing to live if your situation is permanently bad due health reasons or other factors. Then it's just a living nightmare.

Humans have had the ability to consider death since we evolved a few hundred thousand years ago. Archaelogical finds suggest that religion, which is in very significant part a death coping mechanism, has been with us since the start. Even neanderthals seem to have had funerary rites - I'd imagine they knew about death like we do.

With the advent of agriculture - the "building of a safe place for us", more human mental resources were available, and religion grew more complex and sophisticated, as well as branching off into philosophy. There's certainly not a single thing that's been said about life and death by a poster on this forum that hasn't already been said by an ancient philosopher, Greek or Eastern.

However, what you say about death being out of place in the modern world, which is true, has only been true for a century at most. We in the developed world do seem to fear death in a way that our great-great-grandparents did not. Two major reasons are sanitation and penicillin. These two things dramatically changed mortality rates. Just look at the graph of the world population - the point at which it spikes insanely upwards is when death was no longer a fact of life.

Death from illness or the vicissitudes of the climate used to be uibiquitous and inevitable, so it was more familiar to people before. That doesn't mean it wasn't sad, though.

Another change has been the decline, in developed countries, of mass religiosity. This has come at the same time, and has probably been affected by the technology that has facilitated more human life and more comfortable human lives. Having a religious belief takes much of the sting out of death, both for those who anticipate it and those who are bereaved. Plenty of medieval criminals earnestly accepted being horrifically tortured to death because they genuinely believed it helped them with their afterlife.

For those of us who don't have the crutch of religion, the knowledge that this life is the one shot we get is a big stressor. Plenty of us have grandparents who lived more or less prosperous and happy lives, and who died contented with their run. But our futures are more uncertain than theirs and our world more complex. So while we can still attain the pretty-good outcome of dying old, tired and content with how it all went, it's natural that we worry much more about it.

 

[ScaredOfLife]

In 2006 I lost a close friend to suicide. (This is before I was suicidal.) I wasn't one of the ones to say that suicide is selfish. Instead, I viewed it that he was at last free from his suffering. I completely understood why he had to do it.

There are far worse things than death in life. Suffering is worse than death.

 

[comfortablydumb]

In 2006 I lost a close friend to suicide. (This is before I was suicidal.) I wasn't one of the ones to say that suicide is selfish. Instead, I viewed it that he was at last free from his suffering. I completely understood why he had to do it.

There are far worse things than death in life. Suffering is worse than death.

Saying that suicide is selfish is, I think, something that most of those who say it, say out of fear. It's a thought terminating cliche, more or less. Interestingly, the sentiment seems to be much less common amongst those who have actually been bereaved by suicide than amongst those who merely consider the possibility.

On the note of speaking out of fear, by the way, I'm sure many readers have noticed that quite a few posters/commenters on this forum are intensely sensitive of criticism. Whether it's for suggesting outlandish suicide methods, wanting the whole world to burn, or angsty anger at the "pro-life sheeple", there's a fair bit of reactive "no step on snek" buffoonery. It's natural that suicidal people are in pain, and people in pain are prickly. But if one demands understanding for why one is thinking and speaking in a reactive, bombastic way, it has to be afforded to those who do that from the other angle.

 

[Smilla]

Saying that suicide is selfish is, I think, something that most of those who say it, say out of fear. It's a thought terminating cliche, more or less. Interestingly, the sentiment seems to be much less common amongst those who have actually been bereaved by suicide than amongst those who merely consider the possibility.

On the note of speaking out of fear, by the way, I'm sure many readers have noticed that quite a few posters/commenters on this forum are intensely sensitive of criticism. Whether it's for suggesting outlandish suicide methods, wanting the whole world to burn, or angsty anger at the "pro-life sheeple", there's a fair bit of reactive "no step on snek" buffoonery. It's natural that suicidal people are in pain, and people in pain are prickly. But if one demands understanding for why one is thinking and speaking in a reactive, bombastic way, it has to be afforded to those who do that from the other angle.

Describe the other angle with something other than religious platitudes and fear of death.

Do you suppose some loved ones might outwardly grieve but inwardly feel some sense of a relief that our suffering is over?

 

[comfortablydumb]

Describe the other angle with something other than religious platitudes and fear of death.

What do you mean? My whole post was very broad and shorthand, and so was "the other angle". It's impossible to do justice to any side here without a book-length dissertation.

Do you suppose some loved ones might outwardly grieve but inwardly feel some sense of a relief that our suffering is over?

It is known that, regardless of their feelings, very many people engage in performative grief. It is also obvious that, if someone genuinely knows your suffering, they'll be likely to feel relief that it's over. However, that depends on variables. The older you are, the likelier. The more objective and physical your pain, the likelier. Etc.

 

[Smilla]

What do you mean? My whole post was very broad and shorthand, and so was "the other angle". It's impossible to do justice to any side here without a book-length dissertation.



It is known that, regardless of their feelings, very many people engage in performative grief. It is also obvious that, if someone genuinely knows your suffering, they'll be likely to feel relief that it's over. However, that depends on variables. The older you are, the likelier. The more objective and physical your pain, the likelier. Etc.

I actually agree with this

 

[Somerando]

Certainly not. I think life is the worth thing that can happen to someone.

 

[itsallover]

It's a part of life. I wish I didn't have to but I have to put an end to my life because of chronic pain. I don't see a future for myself anymore. Nobody understands because they can't feel your body. Or even mind for that matter. I know that mental illness just like some physical ailments are just complete torture.

 

[DoneWithThis]

Or the loss of someone isn't that bad (provided they didn't die being violently murdered).

Ever since I became suicidal, I've learned that people who think like this are in the minority. Not just the prospect of ones own death but the death of others as well. I know someone who died by suicide and didn't go to their funeral because I don't like gathering to mourn, never understood the concept but when I heard the news, I was a bit shocked but definitely didn't feel the guilt that many "suicide survivors" claim to.

This seems to be an extremely unpopular opinion in society. I don't expect people to think the way I do but I absolutely hate the way the mainstream view of death and death of others is shoved down our throats. When I say that the death of someone isn't bad people will say to me "You've probably never lost someone" which I have. It doesn't seem acceptable to be okay with death in our society if it's not a "natural death" in old age.

Can't wait to escape this fucking cult called society. Hope the next war devastates all of humanity and reduces it to ash. Even the good people unfortunately because I believe the only way to prevent human suffering is for no more humans to be born

Definitely agree.

"I'm tired of this back-slappin' "isn't humanity neat" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes."

Bill Hicks

 

[not_a_robot]

Just looked for image of VHEM and found this.

I hope everything went well for him.

 

[Pistolero114]

No you are not. There are many things we endure here in the corporeal world that seem to this old sailor far worse than a physical death. Such as the death of your spirit in this realm. To live a physical existence here with no hope; no joy; no passion for living. Talk about your walking dead......to be enslaved here constantly concerned about money or success or even surviving from day to day. Death is preferable to enslavement.

 

[vonvonwantpeace]

Its weird you say that because I think the same everyday. In order for the earth to be better off, humans need to stop existing.

I dont mind animals on the earth but even they suffer and die. So if nothing existed, in the long run, it would probably be better off.

I agree!