I'm not a religious person, but the thought that God and heaven and hell could exist terrifies me. No matter how much anyone tries to deny it, hell would be worse than living. Recently I was able to convince myself to just ctb as soon as possible without the worry of what comes after, but this thought will always linger in the back of my mind. So I was just curious if anyone else has thought anything similar ?
Baguette
Member
- Jun 28, 2020
- 90
I don't believe(if heaven/hell does exist) that people who ctb go to hell. The bible says not to murder other people but people who ctb are not harming anyone but themselves(physically). I believe you are reincarnated and given another chance at life as a newborn if you ctb.
Soulless_Angel
existence is futile
- Jul 10, 2019
- 2,225
Ahhh ok that's interesting. I never thought about it like that.
Chiyuki99
a nightmare dressed like a daydream
- May 28, 2019
- 140
I was raised both as a Buddhist and a Protestant therefore my belief in heaven, hell and afterlife are very real and always existent in my mind. Like you I am terrified of hell and I probably would have already left this world if it wasn't for my fear of hell...
Glad I'm not the only one. The thought of going somewhere worse than earth is terrifying
aedric_artifact
Find me in the sweetest oblivion
- Jun 27, 2020
- 59
I've been put off by the possible existence of hell, but I always end up not believing that it exists. Can you remember what it was like before you were born? Obviously not, you can't even fathom it. That's what death is going to be like, in my opinion. But, on the chance that hell *does* exist, I have this to say: If hell exists, heaven exists. Do you really believe God would want to further punish you via eternal torment? No, he would love you and welcome you to heaven and tell you that you are safe now. That you can meet those that have passed; that the pain is over.
A Second chance? Really so in case the first life sucked perhaps the second one will be improved? I don't think life has a sense of humor, but maybe that's how it is, the same hell one is forced to repeat over and over.
sourcreamonion
Member
- Jun 25, 2020
- 89
I don't believe in hell or heaven, I feel like it's a headache to think about or worry about. I do somewhat believe, or hope, in reincarnation, but I'm also very set on the idea that when you die you're kind of just dead? I don't know if that makes sense, but it's just pitch blackness to me? A void of nothingness? I find that more comforting.
ThoughtsMinds
Member
- Jun 8, 2020
- 14
@TakeYourHappyPills I am the same way... logically I know there is very likely not a hell but in the back of my mind I fear there is a possibility it exists somehow. I think it was catholic school that drove that fear into me. I would imagine death is like when you are asleep and don't have dreams. There's still a small part of me that feels like a demon is gonna drag me straight to the depths of firey hell as soon as I ctb D:
Yes heaven and hell exist but not the mainstream christian version. There are many dimensions inbetween heaven and hell. Just research NDEs and astral projection.
I believe there is something after death, I just don't know what it is.
However I refuse to believe that if Christianity is the more correct of them all that a god would send you to hell for ending your own suffering.
Just imagine all those poor souls who killed themselves in the twin towers on 9/11 to escape the flames, imagine they turn up to some pearly white gates and an angel says "see now we know you were gonna die anyway and just did this to avoid the horrible pain of burning to death, but some guy wrote in a book that suicide is a sin soooooo.... byeeee"
Yeah, it's just not gonna happen. If there truly is a hell then it's for people who were horrific to others in life.
However I refuse to believe that if Christianity is the more correct of them all that a god would send you to hell for ending your own suffering.
Just imagine all those poor souls who killed themselves in the twin towers on 9/11 to escape the flames, imagine they turn up to some pearly white gates and an angel says "see now we know you were gonna die anyway and just did this to avoid the horrible pain of burning to death, but some guy wrote in a book that suicide is a sin soooooo.... byeeee"
Yeah, it's just not gonna happen. If there truly is a hell then it's for people who were horrific to others in life.
Baguette
Member
- Jun 28, 2020
- 90
Agreed. I believe hell is reserved for those who harm others in life, murderers, people who beat their partners etc.
BigLucs
M-23 NC. Don't want to turn 24.
- Apr 30, 2020
- 58
Here's my two cents. You accept heaven and hell because you've been told to. But considering that no one actually knows what happens after death, they have as much knowledge on the topic as you do. Make your own cannon. Nobody knows the secret to life or happiness. If you want to find them then you have to do it yourself.
Yes
yes i agree. I'd definitely prefer pitch blackness over reincarnation. Once I ctb I don't want to have to live another life
kovkay
Experienced
- Jun 29, 2020
- 245
Here is information about hell that I found on reddit and saved:
This concept of "Hell" as a place of 'eternal suffering in a lake of fire' that Christians so often try to scare people with is all made up by humans and doesn't even exist in the 'old testament' and is not well supported by the 'new testament' either...
every single 'old testament' reference to "hell" is a mistranslations of the Jewish concept of "Sheol" which is distinctly different from what most people today refer to as "Hell".
* 1: Sheol is temporary - not 'eternal'. you are only there until 'judgment day'.
* 2: everyone goes to Sheol to await judgment day. (good or bad, believer or not).
* 3: everyone in Sheol atones for their misdeeds in life. everyone, regardless of whether they "have faith" or not. You don't escape punishment for your misdeeds in life just because you 'have faith'. THAT was an invention (apparently of Paul).
* 4: after judgment: the 'truly wicked' are annihilated: They 'cease to exist'. They are not "punished for the rest of eternity. (That view is not supported by anything in the bible outside of 'revelation' (and even that is pretty thin)
* 5: after judgment: everyone else goes to "Olam Ha'Bah" (aka "the world to come"; "gan eden" or "the Garden of Eden). - This did NOT require belief in or worship of "YHYH" it was based on whether you were a decent person in life; not "blind faith".
outside of 'revelation" The "New Testament" does not refer to this concept of 'eternal punishment' at all. not once, not anywhere. It is ONLY mentioned in the "Book of Revelation" (aka "The Apocalypse of John") and even those references are pretty flimsy evidence.
every "New Testament" reference to "Hell" in modern translations are mistranslating one of two words. "Tartarus" (which appears only one time in 2 Peter 2:4) and "Gehenna".
* Tartarus is a specific reference to the pagan concept of the 'lowest level of hades' - this reference from 2 Peter is talking about a place where "fallen angels" are sent and is never mentioned as a destination for humans. - Also note that this same specific verse clearly limits the time spent in that place to "until judgment".
* Gehenna is an actual physical place in Jerusalem, it was (in the first century CE) a trash dump, garbage and dead bodies were taken there and burned in a 'eternal fire' (a constantly burning fire that was always burning garbage). it was considered a "cursed place" due to legends about people sacrificing children there. It was mentioned in a lot of parables; often 'jesus' talking about wealthy people ending up in Gehenna (just like all the poor people). essentially saying that all their wealth doesn't save them from eventually dying and being thrown into the trash heap. - The parables did seem to imply that "Gehenna" was some undesirable place but it's very dishonest to claim that the word literally translates to the common concept called "Hell".
The words translated into "Eternal Punishment" in Matthew 25:46 (for instance) is also a mistranslation. The word they translate as "eternal" there is "αἰώνῐος" which is more correctly translated as "lasting for an age". If you note the same exact same word is mistranslated to 'eternal' in modern translations of Jude 1:7 where Sodom and Gomorrah are supposedly destroyed by "eternal fire" - Those fires are clearly not burning today as we've never found any such remnants anywhere on earth of this supposedly never ending fire. The other part of that phrase for "Punishment" is also a poor translation of "kolasis" which was an agricultural term basically meaning "cut off" or "prune" - possibly suggesting the concept where you "prune away part of a plant and the rest of the plant gets stronger". Somewhat more likely is that it refers to "punitive correction" as opposed to some eternal torment or possibly it refers to being 'cut off from paradise/eternal life' which is effectively what happens when you cease to exist. - you aren't suffering but you are denied eternal life and entry to paradise 'for eternity'.
Outside of Revelation the most common thing people tend to bring up to support this 'eternal suffering in a lake of fire' nonsense is the story from Luke 16:19-31 of "lazarus and the rich man". That parable however does not suggest "eternal suffering" at all.
* 1: Abraham, Lazarus and "Rich Man" are all in the same place. - That already sounds a lot more like "Sheol" than "Hell". the claim that all of them talking to each other is clearly not a reference to one being "in heaven" and the other "in hell" since these places are always depicted as separate.
* 2: "Rich Man" is suffering but... he's complaining about "being thirsty".... if he were burning in a lake of fire I think he'd have bigger problems than 'parched lips'.
* 3: Nothing about that story says anything to suggest that the suffering is eternal; it only implies that "Rich Man" is suffering currently, not what his fate would be down the road.
Then we have the claims from "Revelation":
* 1: the ["Second Death"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_death) is mentioned 4 times in this book; and described as the "Death of the soul"
* 2: Revelation 20:6 only people named in the "book of life" (those "on the right") receive "eternal life" - this gift of eternal life is ONLY for the righteous people that pass into paradise.
* 3: Revelation 20:10 states that the 'beast', the 'false prophet' (aka the antichrist) and 'satan' are cast into the lake of fire where they will "suffer for ever and ever" - note that none of these entities are 'human'.
* 4: then in Revelation 20:15 - the people who's name did not appear in the 'book of life' (those "on the left") are also cast into the same lake of fire where they "suffer the second death". - Note the different language... it does not say "suffer for ever and ever" but instead states that they "suffer the second death" - this suggests that their soul dies.. which is "Annihilation" not "eternal suffering". How can there be "eternal suffering" for people that do not have "eternal life"? - (see note 2 above).
Nothing about "eternal suffering" is consistent with anything in the bible. "Eternal suffering" is sadistic cruelty without any purpose or benefit. - It makes no rational sense if they are also trying to claim that 'god' is benevolent, loving, merciful etc. - Totally logically inconsistent with this view.
> **John 2:2**
>He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
>**Romans 5:18**
>Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
>**Romans 11:29-32**
> for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
> Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience,
> so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you.
> For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
>**Titus 2:11**
> For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
In the early days of the christian church there were several competing views of the afterlife that are a lot more consistent with the rest of the bible:
* "Annihilation" is the belief that "after judgment" the "truly wicked" are annihilated; they 'cease to exist' and that's it... no further suffering; they are gone. end of story. This is exactly what the Jewish traditional view of Sheol mentioned above taught and is logically consistent with the 'old testament'.
* "universal salvation" or "universalism" is the belief that eventually everyone is saved. - This view treats suffering/punishment in the afterlife as reformative/corrective/judicial - meant to correct the recipient and is finite in duration - once you have atoned for your sins you get to move on to paradise with all the other people that ever lived. These were both pretty popular views in the early christian sects prior to ~425 CE;
The early christian sects disagreed considerably about which of these three views was 'correct'. "Basil the Great" specifically commented in ~370CE that the dominant view (of the time) was a belief in a limited purgatory, and others (such as Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Gregory of Nyssa, Didymus the blind, Diodore of Tarsus and Theodore of Mopsuestia wrote extensively about Universalism. There were some (mostly in Northern Africa around the coast of modern day Tunisia/Algeria) that were advocating the view of "Eternal Torment" but it wasn't until 425CE that the church unified on this 'eternal suffering' doctrine (largely through the writings of Augustine of Hippo – who came to Rome from a city near what is now Annaba Tunisia). This became the official version the church went with and the other views were deemed "heretical" and banned along with any early christian scriptures that supported those opposing views (such as the "Apocalypse of Peter").
fun fact: on December 13; 2013 between 40-70cm (16-19 inches) of [snow fell on Jerusalem as seen in this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RuhXbspXjQ) so there could have been some pretty epic snowball fights in 'hell' that day...
every single 'old testament' reference to "hell" is a mistranslations of the Jewish concept of "Sheol" which is distinctly different from what most people today refer to as "Hell".
* 1: Sheol is temporary - not 'eternal'. you are only there until 'judgment day'.
* 2: everyone goes to Sheol to await judgment day. (good or bad, believer or not).
* 3: everyone in Sheol atones for their misdeeds in life. everyone, regardless of whether they "have faith" or not. You don't escape punishment for your misdeeds in life just because you 'have faith'. THAT was an invention (apparently of Paul).
* 4: after judgment: the 'truly wicked' are annihilated: They 'cease to exist'. They are not "punished for the rest of eternity. (That view is not supported by anything in the bible outside of 'revelation' (and even that is pretty thin)
* 5: after judgment: everyone else goes to "Olam Ha'Bah" (aka "the world to come"; "gan eden" or "the Garden of Eden). - This did NOT require belief in or worship of "YHYH" it was based on whether you were a decent person in life; not "blind faith".
outside of 'revelation" The "New Testament" does not refer to this concept of 'eternal punishment' at all. not once, not anywhere. It is ONLY mentioned in the "Book of Revelation" (aka "The Apocalypse of John") and even those references are pretty flimsy evidence.
every "New Testament" reference to "Hell" in modern translations are mistranslating one of two words. "Tartarus" (which appears only one time in 2 Peter 2:4) and "Gehenna".
* Tartarus is a specific reference to the pagan concept of the 'lowest level of hades' - this reference from 2 Peter is talking about a place where "fallen angels" are sent and is never mentioned as a destination for humans. - Also note that this same specific verse clearly limits the time spent in that place to "until judgment".
* Gehenna is an actual physical place in Jerusalem, it was (in the first century CE) a trash dump, garbage and dead bodies were taken there and burned in a 'eternal fire' (a constantly burning fire that was always burning garbage). it was considered a "cursed place" due to legends about people sacrificing children there. It was mentioned in a lot of parables; often 'jesus' talking about wealthy people ending up in Gehenna (just like all the poor people). essentially saying that all their wealth doesn't save them from eventually dying and being thrown into the trash heap. - The parables did seem to imply that "Gehenna" was some undesirable place but it's very dishonest to claim that the word literally translates to the common concept called "Hell".
The words translated into "Eternal Punishment" in Matthew 25:46 (for instance) is also a mistranslation. The word they translate as "eternal" there is "αἰώνῐος" which is more correctly translated as "lasting for an age". If you note the same exact same word is mistranslated to 'eternal' in modern translations of Jude 1:7 where Sodom and Gomorrah are supposedly destroyed by "eternal fire" - Those fires are clearly not burning today as we've never found any such remnants anywhere on earth of this supposedly never ending fire. The other part of that phrase for "Punishment" is also a poor translation of "kolasis" which was an agricultural term basically meaning "cut off" or "prune" - possibly suggesting the concept where you "prune away part of a plant and the rest of the plant gets stronger". Somewhat more likely is that it refers to "punitive correction" as opposed to some eternal torment or possibly it refers to being 'cut off from paradise/eternal life' which is effectively what happens when you cease to exist. - you aren't suffering but you are denied eternal life and entry to paradise 'for eternity'.
Outside of Revelation the most common thing people tend to bring up to support this 'eternal suffering in a lake of fire' nonsense is the story from Luke 16:19-31 of "lazarus and the rich man". That parable however does not suggest "eternal suffering" at all.
* 1: Abraham, Lazarus and "Rich Man" are all in the same place. - That already sounds a lot more like "Sheol" than "Hell". the claim that all of them talking to each other is clearly not a reference to one being "in heaven" and the other "in hell" since these places are always depicted as separate.
* 2: "Rich Man" is suffering but... he's complaining about "being thirsty".... if he were burning in a lake of fire I think he'd have bigger problems than 'parched lips'.
* 3: Nothing about that story says anything to suggest that the suffering is eternal; it only implies that "Rich Man" is suffering currently, not what his fate would be down the road.
Then we have the claims from "Revelation":
* 1: the ["Second Death"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_death) is mentioned 4 times in this book; and described as the "Death of the soul"
* 2: Revelation 20:6 only people named in the "book of life" (those "on the right") receive "eternal life" - this gift of eternal life is ONLY for the righteous people that pass into paradise.
* 3: Revelation 20:10 states that the 'beast', the 'false prophet' (aka the antichrist) and 'satan' are cast into the lake of fire where they will "suffer for ever and ever" - note that none of these entities are 'human'.
* 4: then in Revelation 20:15 - the people who's name did not appear in the 'book of life' (those "on the left") are also cast into the same lake of fire where they "suffer the second death". - Note the different language... it does not say "suffer for ever and ever" but instead states that they "suffer the second death" - this suggests that their soul dies.. which is "Annihilation" not "eternal suffering". How can there be "eternal suffering" for people that do not have "eternal life"? - (see note 2 above).
Nothing about "eternal suffering" is consistent with anything in the bible. "Eternal suffering" is sadistic cruelty without any purpose or benefit. - It makes no rational sense if they are also trying to claim that 'god' is benevolent, loving, merciful etc. - Totally logically inconsistent with this view.
> **John 2:2**
>He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
>**Romans 5:18**
>Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
>**Romans 11:29-32**
> for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.
> Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience,
> so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you.
> For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
>**Titus 2:11**
> For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.
In the early days of the christian church there were several competing views of the afterlife that are a lot more consistent with the rest of the bible:
* "Annihilation" is the belief that "after judgment" the "truly wicked" are annihilated; they 'cease to exist' and that's it... no further suffering; they are gone. end of story. This is exactly what the Jewish traditional view of Sheol mentioned above taught and is logically consistent with the 'old testament'.
* "universal salvation" or "universalism" is the belief that eventually everyone is saved. - This view treats suffering/punishment in the afterlife as reformative/corrective/judicial - meant to correct the recipient and is finite in duration - once you have atoned for your sins you get to move on to paradise with all the other people that ever lived. These were both pretty popular views in the early christian sects prior to ~425 CE;
The early christian sects disagreed considerably about which of these three views was 'correct'. "Basil the Great" specifically commented in ~370CE that the dominant view (of the time) was a belief in a limited purgatory, and others (such as Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Gregory of Nyssa, Didymus the blind, Diodore of Tarsus and Theodore of Mopsuestia wrote extensively about Universalism. There were some (mostly in Northern Africa around the coast of modern day Tunisia/Algeria) that were advocating the view of "Eternal Torment" but it wasn't until 425CE that the church unified on this 'eternal suffering' doctrine (largely through the writings of Augustine of Hippo – who came to Rome from a city near what is now Annaba Tunisia). This became the official version the church went with and the other views were deemed "heretical" and banned along with any early christian scriptures that supported those opposing views (such as the "Apocalypse of Peter").
fun fact: on December 13; 2013 between 40-70cm (16-19 inches) of [snow fell on Jerusalem as seen in this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RuhXbspXjQ) so there could have been some pretty epic snowball fights in 'hell' that day...
It could even be that what we believe will happen happens. Our minds are capable of more than even science fully understands, who is to say that when we die all those neurons and electrical pulses don't hover away and continue dreaming a huge world for us, one we assumed would happen upon death like heaven, or reincarnation.
Like has been said no one knows, but some of us have faith there is something. Imo I believe there has to be because otherwise as far as I can see it human existence is finite. Which makes anyone living at all completely pointless.
Like has been said no one knows, but some of us have faith there is something. Imo I believe there has to be because otherwise as far as I can see it human existence is finite. Which makes anyone living at all completely pointless.
SpottedPanda
I'm all about coffee and cigarettes
- Jul 24, 2019
- 612
Not 1% of me believes in an afterlife. It just doesn't make sense to me that a perfect replica of a person lives on, even though their body is actually decaying in the ground, or burned to ashes. And it makes perfect sense to me that we are the result of electrical signals in a lump of matter called the brain, here temporarily.
meek
Member
- Jun 27, 2020
- 10
it's so sad and heartbreaking to think that it's gonna be nothingness after death. I never had good friends, didn't smile enough and didn't see new places. all I lived through was torment yet to think that it's gonna be pitch black even when I escape this ruthless, brutal and cruel reality is worrying me a lot. I wish the great architect pities my poor soul and let's me smile at least for some time afterlife.
4eyebiped
Mage
- Dec 28, 2019
- 567
If believing in god gets you through the day and allows you to cope, then more power to you and do not read the below. This is a disclaimer but I am sure curiosity will get the best of you and you will read it anyways!
It is hard to imagine that a supposedly forgiving, loving and all-powerful being would create a hell to torture people in for eternity. Then to add on top of that, this powerful being imposes pain and suffering on someone while they are alive. Then to test if they will hang in there with this immense pain till natural death occurs, all the while continuing to worship him, and if not, once again, torture them for eternity. If this isn't the most sadistic and narcissistic shit I have ever heard… This type of behavior is made illegal in the modern world. Did Hitler and God have each other on speed dial to bounce ideas off each other?
You realize that often people who do horrific crimes, like murdering someone, does so due to an underlining mental illness that is often exacerbated by the person's environment, usually during childhood? To now give someone a mental illness, an environment that fucks them up and then say, well you did something bad, here let me perpetually burn your flesh off for eternity? There are lots of mental illnesses that changes a person's reality, like schizophrenia. Even if you want to claim these people would get a free pass, the question is still why would you sadistically torture them in such a cruel way while they were alive? There is no reasonable answer to that.
I don't know, I just don't get it. This logic and behavior is not that of a forgiving, loving or sane being. It is that of pure evil. Try to justify it if you must, but please do not show me this type of love in real life.
In short, I don't believe in an afterlife.
It is hard to imagine that a supposedly forgiving, loving and all-powerful being would create a hell to torture people in for eternity. Then to add on top of that, this powerful being imposes pain and suffering on someone while they are alive. Then to test if they will hang in there with this immense pain till natural death occurs, all the while continuing to worship him, and if not, once again, torture them for eternity. If this isn't the most sadistic and narcissistic shit I have ever heard… This type of behavior is made illegal in the modern world. Did Hitler and God have each other on speed dial to bounce ideas off each other?
You realize that often people who do horrific crimes, like murdering someone, does so due to an underlining mental illness that is often exacerbated by the person's environment, usually during childhood? To now give someone a mental illness, an environment that fucks them up and then say, well you did something bad, here let me perpetually burn your flesh off for eternity? There are lots of mental illnesses that changes a person's reality, like schizophrenia. Even if you want to claim these people would get a free pass, the question is still why would you sadistically torture them in such a cruel way while they were alive? There is no reasonable answer to that.
I don't know, I just don't get it. This logic and behavior is not that of a forgiving, loving or sane being. It is that of pure evil. Try to justify it if you must, but please do not show me this type of love in real life.
In short, I don't believe in an afterlife.
SpottedPanda
I'm all about coffee and cigarettes
- Jul 24, 2019
- 612
I'd be worried too if I thought it'd be eternal blackness, as I've noticed a few people mention. The term 'oblivion' seems to conjure up false images. Blackness suggests the capacity for sight, which is a capability of the living. I prefer the term 'nothingness'. I feel it more accurately depicts what I expect.
Last edited:
Deleted member 17949
Visionary
- May 9, 2020
- 2,238
Arrow
Rewrite
- May 1, 2020
- 769
