Abstaining from suicide because of the cultural stigma

[hellgirlredux]

I was getting all set to ctb by caffiene powder this evening and then a thought popped into my head- what if it is wrong to ctb because of the stigma around suicide in western culture and the residual impact that will have on ones family? Like they will experience longer and more complicated grief than with a natural death after a longer life, as well as be seen by everyone else as that family whose daughter killed herself. I am starting to feel like it would be dreadfully wrong to ctb knowing what my family will go through because of how they and western culture sees suicide as different and more of a tragedy than natural death. Like they will experience more grief than if I had died of cancer and it's just not fair. And what if they get complicated grief and become at greater risk of ctb themselves? Wouldn't that make me a kind of murderer? My dad died unexpectedly from what we think was some kind of underlying heart issue and my mother is very depressed and seems to be showing signs of complicated grief, and my brother has been suicidal and I suspect nearly overdosed on drugs he's been using to cope. I can't talk to them to make sure they'll be okay as my brother will be highly triggered and possibly even attempt to ctb himself even if I gently bring it up. I cannot leave a note accurately explaning my reasons (neurological disorder makes writing hard) and my reasons are very abstract and complex so I would need to be around to answer their questions anyway so a note would leave them with more unanswered questions. But I can't bring up the idea of me dying or my brother will get severely triggered and I'm afraid he will overdose. Also I'm so distraught from my thoughts and experiences being invalidated truth be told I don't even have the desire nor the energy to put a sincere effort into explaining everything. What do I do? I want to die but my conscience keeps stopping me and says you have to talk to your family and you can only die if you have verbal confirmation that they will be okay. But I can't bc my brother and also if I try to get my one surviving grandmother's blessing to die she will instantly panic and call the police. (She looks after herself, she is 80 but could easily live to 100 so if my brothers blessing is important so is hers) I feel like I will have to force myself to keep living when I don't even want to because I seem to be coming to the sincere belief that one should talk to ones family and be sure they will be okay before allowing oneself to die but to be honest, I just want to say fuck it, I don't owe them an explanation. I can't give them one without being dragged away by the police anyway! It's so frustrating owing someone an explanation that I cannot even safely give them. This is gonna stop me from dying and I'll have to endure 60 more years of utter mental torture. That's what it's come to now. Steeling myself for 60 years of psychological torture. And I still feel like a fucking monster. I just wanted to be on my way to the great blue yonder.

 

[FuneralCry]

The way that I see it, suicide could never be wrong in any way no matter what, it's a personal decision as to when to leave this world and nobody is obligated to continue existing no matter what.

I don't think that people should feel guilty about leaving others behind as after all we never asked to be here in the first place, and other people chose to selfishly procreate, so why should we have to delay our inevitable fate just because others did the shameful and unnecessary thing of bringing life into this hellish world. I just think that after all, only you know what's best and nobody should have to stay here a second longer than they wish to.

 

[hellgirlredux]

The way that I see it, suicide could never be wrong in any way no matter what, it's a personal decision as to when to leave this world and nobody is obligated to continue existing no matter what.

I don't think that people should feel guilty about leaving others behind as after all we never asked to be here in the first place, and other people chose to selfishly procreate, so why should we have to delay our inevitable fate just because others did the shameful and unnecessary thing of bringing life into this hellish world. I just think that after all, only you know what's best and nobody should have to stay here a second longer than they wish to.

I have often thought about that argument in the past but then I think yes I know my parents chose to have sex but they were naive they had kids it was the thing to do. I don't think they were really aware of the consequences tbh I don't think a lot of parents are. And what about my brother and grandmother? They didn't give birth to me. I thought of this analogy that if there was a young person trying to escape from slavery but their family members are brainwashed and want to stay then the slave master says to the younger person if you leave I will kill your mum. Wouldn't it be immoral for the younger person to escape if he knows doing so will lead to his brainwashed mother being killed? But in my family's case I don't believe they are brainwashed they want to live. Yes they brought me here against my will. But I will cause more pain even to people who didn't birth me if I leave. My dad already died they miss their father and husband and they are distraught no that wasn't my fault it was the sudden cardiac arrests fault but they are at risk of complicated grief and suicide. How is it right for me to leave if I know leaving will put them at risk, as complicated grief often leads to suicide itself?

 

[epic]

I was getting all set to ctb by caffiene powder this evening and then a thought popped into my head- what if it is wrong to ctb because of the stigma around suicide in western culture and the residual impact that will have on ones family? Like they will experience longer and more complicated grief than with a natural death after a longer life, as well as be seen by everyone else as that family whose daughter killed herself. I am starting to feel like it would be dreadfully wrong to ctb knowing what my family will go through because of how they and western culture sees suicide as different and more of a tragedy than natural death. Like they will experience more grief than if I had died of cancer and it's just not fair. And what if they get complicated grief and become at greater risk of ctb themselves? Wouldn't that make me a kind of murderer? My dad died unexpectedly from what we think was some kind of underlying heart issue and my mother is very depressed and seems to be showing signs of complicated grief, and my brother has been suicidal and I suspect nearly overdosed on drugs he's been using to cope. I can't talk to them to make sure they'll be okay as my brother will be highly triggered and possibly even attempt to ctb himself even if I gently bring it up. I cannot leave a note accurately explaning my reasons (neurological disorder makes writing hard) and my reasons are very abstract and complex so I would need to be around to answer their questions anyway so a note would leave them with more unanswered questions. But I can't bring up the idea of me dying or my brother will get severely triggered and I'm afraid he will overdose. Also I'm so distraught from my thoughts and experiences being invalidated truth be told I don't even have the desire nor the energy to put a sincere effort into explaining everything. What do I do? I want to die but my conscience keeps stopping me and says you have to talk to your family and you can only die if you have verbal confirmation that they will be okay. But I can't bc my brother and also if I try to get my one surviving grandmother's blessing to die she will instantly panic and call the police. (She looks after herself, she is 80 but could easily live to 100 so if my brothers blessing is important so is hers) I feel like I will have to force myself to keep living when I don't even want to because I seem to be coming to the sincere belief that one should talk to ones family and be sure they will be okay before allowing oneself to die but to be honest, I just want to say fuck it, I don't owe them an explanation. I can't give them one without being dragged away by the police anyway! It's so frustrating owing someone an explanation that I cannot even safely give them. This is gonna stop me from dying and I'll have to endure 60 more years of utter mental torture. That's what it's come to now. Steeling myself for 60 years of psychological torture. And I still feel like a fucking monster. I just wanted to be on my way to the great blue yonder.

, People stamp the family of suicidal as "mother/father of the the man who commited suicide". It's an identity they carry forward forever. It's one of the major reasons why I am here. Everytime the subject of the suicidal comes up my parents will have to revisit the trauma that too in front of many people. I am sorry I don't think there is a solution to this .

 

[hellgirlredux]

, People stamp the family of suicidal as "mother/father of the the man who commited suicide". It's an identity they carry forward forever. It's one of the major reasons why I am here. Everytime the subject of the suicidal comes up my parents will have to revisit the trauma that too in front of many people. I am sorry I don't think there is a solution to this .

Im beginning to think that too. How can you justify immense pain? When you imagine what it is like to feel it, there is just no words and no argument that will make pain okay or justify it. When I contemplate immense pain I see no justification for causing it. It cannot be refuted or worked around. Pain is pain is pain. I hear do no harm in my head all the time, maybe it is the left leaning part of me I have spent some time in activist circles but I'm so so careful even in my everyday life not to cause anyone pain but it's so hard to live by a very strict code of conduct (think stricter than a Christian fundamentalist but without the God part) I even banned myself from going to the supermarket at one point (long story) it's ironic because I must never cause harm but my efforts to never cause harm are a big part of my ctb reasons (not all of it though, I've lived a weird and downright hellish 24 years) I keep saying to myself it's for the best and it's right to follow wherever your conscience leads you but these rules while they are honourable and right and true to me they are soul crushing to have to live by. Even though it was me and me alone who made them according to my personal convictions and beliefs.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I know what you're struggling with and I'm sorry. I feel like I can't leave while my Dad is here. He's the last one remaining for me though- in my close family anyhow. I'll still feel bad doing it after that. It will only be step relations that I've had problems with and friends and family that I haven't seen for years left after that though. By then, I feel like my pain will be enough to outweigh theirs. I've had ideation to varying degrees for 33 years. I think I've held on long enough.

Sometimes my Dad will say things like- I don't realise how much he loves me- which is sweet obviously. Still- I think- no- YOU have no idea how much I love you. You're the only thing that's preventing me from leaving.

I wish I knew what to say. There's really nothing I can comfort you with though unfortunately- other than a lot of us are in the same position here. Big hug to you. I'm sorry you're suffering.

I wish people would reconsider when they want to call suicide selfish. SO many people struggle on in misery for years- just so as not to upset others.

 

[hellgirlredux]

I know what you're struggling with and I'm sorry. I feel like I can't leave while my Dad is here. He's the last one remaining for me though- in my close family anyhow. I'll still feel bad doing it after that. It will only be step relations that I've had problems with and friends and family that I haven't seen for years left after that though. By then, I feel like my pain will be enough to outweigh theirs. I've had ideation to varying degrees for 33 years. I think I've held on long enough.

Sometimes my Dad will say things like- I don't realise how much he loves me- which is sweet obviously. Still- I think- no- YOU have no idea how much I love you. You're the only thing that's preventing me from leaving.

I wish I knew what to say. There's really nothing I can comfort you with though unfortunately- other than a lot of us are in the same position here. Big hug to you. I'm sorry you're suffering.

I wish people would reconsider when they want to call suicide selfish. SO many people struggle on in misery for years- just so as not to upset others.

If only our family members and friends knew how much anguish and pain we really endure just so we can stay alive for them I think if they could come inside our heads and feel the sheer suffering it would blow their minds

 

[SamTam33]

... I thought of this analogy that if there was a young person trying to escape from slavery but their family members are brainwashed and want to stay then the slave master says to the younger person if you leave I will kill your mum. Wouldn't it be immoral for the younger person to escape if he knows doing so will lead to his brainwashed mother being killed?

I guess it depends on whether you love your mother more than you hate being a slave.

My first inclination would be to convince my mother to escape WITH ME. How do I take the leverage from the slave master? Not just automatically submit to him.

But if mom refuses, then I'd remind myself that A) she won't know she's dead and B) death is better than slavery. So I've done her a favor.

She birthed me into slavery, yet I set her free.

As for the real life scenario of staying alive for other people, I can't relate. Unless it's very specific circumstances where those people depend on you for their survival, I think it's more of an excuse to delay ctb than anything noble.

 

[hellgirlredux]

I guess it depends on whether you love your mother more than you hate being a slave.

My first inclination would be to convince my mother to escape WITH ME. How do I take the leverage from the slave master? Not just automatically submit to him.

But if mom refuses, then I'd remind myself that A) she won't know she's dead and B) death is better than slavery. So I've done her a favor.

She birthed me into slavery, yet I set her free.

As for the real life scenario of staying alive for other people, I can't relate. Unless it's very specific circumstances where those people depend on you for their survival, I think it's more of an excuse to delay ctb than anything noble.

Do I really have the right to cause my family members to become suicidal as a result of my suicide though? I think they at the core of it want to live, but as I explained my dad died so they kind of rely on me to want to continue living. I refuse to try and convince them to die with me in some kind of suicide pact I may be suicidal but I'm not homicidal. If they want to die themselves they must arrive at that decision on their own. I am pro choice, not quite a promortalist. If they think life is better than death do I really have the right to come along and say no it isn't? But maybe you're taking the position that life is inherently different to a slavery type situation, idk. I wrote the analogy as a situation where the brainwashed person already refused to be convinced. But that's assuming life is inherently, objectively not worth living in the first place. Hence the brainwashed bit, which in the case of life I am not quite sure about. Now that I think about it idk if it has any meaning or purpose either way. Like it's subjective, solely up to the person living the life to decide whether the life they are living is worth it or not. Idk if there is really any objective worth there. I hope this makes sense. Again I am assuming that the two situations compare in some way but I'm coming at this from the angle of subjective meaning or worth so for me it would be up to the person to decide whether working for the master (or life) is worth it or not. Given this, I feel it is wrong to cause my family to suffer or become suicidal as a result of my death. I'm not "freeing" them if they get suicidal and die if there is nothing objectively that they should be freed from. Hope this clarified things a bit. Sorry if this is a bit incoherent I did not get much sleep last night.

 

[SamTam33]

Do I really have the right to cause my family members to become suicidal as a result of my suicide though? I think they at the core of it want to live, but as I explained my dad died so they kind of rely on me to want to continue living. I refuse to try and convince them to die with me in some kind of suicide pact I may be suicidal but I'm not some homicidal maniac. If they want to die themselves they must arrive at that decision on their own. I am pro choice, not quite a promortalist. If they think life is better than death do I really have the right to come along and say no it isn't?

The "die with you" comment was directly in response to your hypothetical scenario about slavery.

You have the right to do whatever you want. Good luck.

 

[hellgirlredux]

The "die with you" comment was directly in response to your hypothetical scenario about slavery.

You have the right to do whatever you want. Good luck.

I was trying to see in my mind whether it is alright to cause another person to want to die. I felt like I would be causing their death if they were suicidal and died because the grief from me dying was too much to bear. Perhaps I should have thought of a more apt analogy. Idk if life is a situation we find ourselves in, me and my family members alike, then it is possibly more neutral as compared to slavery, but what I was trying to get at was do I have the right to die if that will cause them to get suicidal or die. But in this case convincing them that life is bad and they should die with me too would be a step too far into promortalism and homicide, whereas if a slave convinced his family to escape with him they might still be alive after escaping. (Unless they ran into some trouble or weren't able to escape successfully and the slave master tried to kill them)
@SamTam33 im sorry if I misunderstood you I know these are different scenarios