A thorough story on Shawn Shatto

[jake3d]

I can however understand her point of view on this site; after all, had that girl not found this site, she may still have been alive.

You need to look at both sides of the coin. For one, if I wouldn't have found this site, I would be dead. Someone on here gave me a helping hand with medication that alleviated my issues to the point that I can continue with work and life to some extent. God knows how long my doc would've taken to get me to try it as it's an older med. The price I have to pay is going thru losing people that I befriend here, this is a suicide forum after all.

Also, negative publicity is still publicity. If Shawn's mom had not made all this media buzz trying to get this place shut down, other people would be alive.

 

[Joannf]

Agreed

There IS no battle to "take down" this site, at least not by serious people.
If there was, Cloudflare would no longer work with them and their domain would have been cancelled.

 

[Shamana]

You need to look at both sides of the coin. For one, if I wouldn't have found this site, I would be dead. Someone on here gave me a helping hand with medication that alleviated my issues to the point that I can continue with work and life to some extent. God knows how long my doc would've taken to get me to try it as it's an older med. The price I have to pay is going thru losing people that I befriend here, this is a suicide forum after all.

Also, negative publicity is still publicity. If Shawn's mom had not made all this media buzz trying to get this place shut down, other people would be alive.

I think you're one the few though where it works like that. It's difficult to say how many people wouldn't commit suicide if they didn't find this forum, but I think this forum certainly makes it a lot easier for a lot of people who have severe suicide ideation.

I personally can't see how any can fault the mother for feeling the way she does. Having to bury your child is the worst experience a parent can go through. I'm pretty sure that every parent who finds out their child comitted suicide with knowledge and support from SS is hellbent on getting it off the internet.

 

[Shamana]

Dear @Shamana,

All this becomes for me a little confused in my mind, but what I see is that you have pro-life about this specific situation, certainly, but it does not absolutely stick with a topic you wrote a few days before:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/method-bathtub-of-piranhas.19818/

What comes to mind is the inconsistency in your writing, beyond your empathy for this dramatic situation, in order to understand your reasoning, how can you move from a request for advice on a "Suicide by piranhas in a bathtub, to arguments that you hold today (?)

Are you a disguised pro-life troll (?)

I am not a troll, but I am a pro-lifer in my own definition of the word. It's ridiculous that being pro-life is the ultimate insult on these boards. But that's perhaps because people have their own definitions. I would not blame anyone parents for coming here and concluding it's a death cult.

 

[Soul]

I think you're one the few though where it works like that. It's difficult to say how many people wouldn't commit suicide if they didn't find this forum, but I think this forum certainly makes it a lot easier for a lot of people who have severe suicide ideation.

I personally can't see how any can fault the mother for feeling the way she does. Having to bury your child is the worst experience a parent can go through. I'm pretty sure that every parent who finds out their child comitted suicide with knowledge and support from SS is hellbent on getting it off the internet.

It's not appropriate to mention it to any grieving parents, but the idea that burying a child is a terrible tragedy has been around only since the widespread introduction of penicillin, which was as late as the 1950s where I live. Before then people buried children very regularly. I'm sure it was painful but it was downright expected and not an outstanding tragedy.

Suicide is of course a different category of loss because of the load of guilt that goes with it. We could have an interesting discussion I'm sure about whether it's more painful to have a child or a parent or a sibling or a partner or a close friend commit suicide.

In the case of the Shattos (and @Roger merci for correcting the accent on mère - my bad! and it's too late to fix it) I personally wouldn't feel as impatient with the mother's attempted scapegoating if she simultaneously showed any sign other than extreme denial that she realized there was more to Shawn's suicide than the influence of a website. Shawn was suicidal and her mother clearly didn't notice - not during the three days of the SN protocol, not while Shawn was waiting for items she'd ordered, nor while she was researching methods on the internet. Of course the mother feels guilty of neglecting her child. Of course she does. Blaming a website is silly and she knows it, and her other kids know it, and the journalists egging her cruelly on sure as hell know it.

I hope the whole family are someday able to come to terms with Shawn's life and her death.

 

[Tristevie]

I am not a troll, but I am a pro-lifer in my own definition of the word. It's ridiculous that being pro-life is the ultimate insult on these boards. But that's perhaps because people have their own definitions. I would not blame anyone parents for coming here and concluding it's a death cult.

Well, I had decided to ignore you since our exchanges yesterday, but hey you look for light or maybe increase your message statistics, so I'll help you :

1. There is one thing that bothers me in your writing: it's « I'm not a troll ». When did you say in your message about piranhas that this was a joke (?)

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/method-bathtub-of-piranhas.19818/

Do I consider that this statement shows the forum your attempt to (joke): « I must admit that I was not 100% serious. The little tiger should have been the gift. » (?)

2. You claim to be a « pro-life », congratulations !!!!!!!!!!!!
So, if for you the pro-life language is only a means of communication, what do you think if I tell you that I am a « pro-choice » (?)

I would like to return to the notion of pro-life that you claim to represent because I have crossed people of your kind on other forums that had reasoning identical to yours, and your theory on a proposition of connection to life by drugs or psychoanalyses, the people who come on SS have heard your good word 10000000000000000 times, thanks for your enlightened advice.

NB: In intuition, for me, there is a notion of emotion that obviously is not in the reason, that's what opposes them. We may be digging into the emotional part of the intuition that pushed me to define you as a troll, but you will not get off my head that your pro-life writing has nothing to do with SS .

 

[Shamana]

Well, I had decided to ignore you since our exchanges yesterday, but hey you look for light or maybe increase your message statistics, so I'll help you :

1. There is one thing that bothers me in your writing: it's « I'm not a troll ». When did you say in your message about piranhas that this was a joke (?)

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/method-bathtub-of-piranhas.19818/

Do I consider that this statement shows the forum your attempt to (joke): « I must admit that I was not 100% serious. The little tiger should have been the gift. » (?)

2. You claim to be a « pro-life », congratulations !!!!!!!!!!!!
So, if for you the pro-life language is only a means of communication, what do you think if I tell you that I am a « pro-choice » (?)

I would like to return to the notion of pro-life that you claim to represent because I have crossed people of your kind on other forums that had reasoning identical to yours, and your theory on a proposition of connection to life by drugs or psychoanalyses, the people who come on SS have heard your good word 10000000000000000 times, thanks for your enlightened advice.

NB: In intuition, for me, there is a notion of emotion that obviously is not in the reason, that's what opposes them. We may be digging into the emotional part of the intuition that pushed me to define you as a troll, but you will not get off my head that your pro-life writing has nothing to do with SS .

I don't consider joking the same as trolling.

Yeah, luckily no one here has the obligation to listen to anything I say. That's fair enough. I am also completely free to express my opinion. You have every right to be pro-choice, I feel people should also have the choice, but I don't believe that any adult should rapidly be given methods and support in comitting suicide unless they have very good reasons for doing so.

 

[Kikoo Loool]

It's not appropriate to mention it to any grieving parents, but the idea that burying a child is a terrible tragedy has been around only since the widespread introduction of penicillin, which was as late as the 1950s where I live. Before then people buried children very regularly. I'm sure it was painful but it was downright expected and not an outstanding tragedy.

Don't forget contraception, abortion, medicaly assisted procreation and in a more general way birth control. Because of this people plan their children like careers.

 

[Tristevie]

I don't consider joking the same as trolling.

Yeah, luckily no one here has the obligation to listen to anything I say. That's fair enough. I am also completely free to express my opinion. You have every right to be pro-choice, I feel people should also have the choice, but I don't believe that any adult should rapidly be given methods and support in comitting suicide unless they have very good reasons for doing so.

Respect is the correction, the respect we must have for the human being who is next to us or who is trying to communicate. Ok, so we can have a little bit of impertinence from time to time, a little joke I grant you @Shamana, but why come to revive me on this subject today (?)

you get bored in your life (?)

 

[Shamana]

Respect is the correction, the respect we must have for the human being who is next to us or who is trying to communicate. Ok, so we can have a little bit of impertinence from time to time, a little joke I grant you @Shamana, but why come to revive me on this subject today (?)

you get bored in your life (?)

I am actually very bored with my life. Sorry for bringing the topic back up, I will leave there at that.

 

[Soul]

Don't forget contraception, abortion, medicaly assisted procreation and in a more general way birth control. Because of this people plan their children like careers.

I don't forget those - I was barking up a rather different tree than that, though.

It's frequently said that burying a child is the worst thing that can befall a person, a terrible tragedy, etc. I think it's worth bearing in mind that that's a very new concept, and even now it would be regarded as a "luxury opinion" in some parts of the world.

I certainly don't expect any grieving parent to feel better just because his/her grandparents or greatgrandparents had to regard the death of a child as rather natural. Stillbirth. Influenza. Childhood diseases. Holocausts. Wars. Famine. Children are frail. They die. Or they go off to war and die. Or they're taken by extremists and made to do things. They die.

That's all I meant. It doesn't apply to the Shattos, who most likely planned their family, vaccinated their kids, got them good health care, fed them properly, etc. etc. One of them turned out to be intractable and it was hard to focus on her all the time, and she died.

 

[AnnaJaspers]

If you want to address these problems effectively, you need to address them genetically. Humans are hierarchic social animals, so pyramidal hierarchies arr what they naturally fall into.You can of coyrse keep trying to teach them some sort of "philosophy" which changes every few decades, while you do your best staying on top of the chain. Or you give in and let some of the erstwhile underlings take over your place at the top, after creating some "egalitarian" mass movement out of the sheeple for their transport through society.



It's simple. It's running out of perspectives that would give a social animal positive motivation, which is mostly composed of being a respected or envied member of the given society. There can be many reasons for this to happen, but it always comes down to this. Hardwired.



We live in a world which we exhaust for our own opulence, but the way brains work, they get bored by opulence. Opilence is the highest high we can reach, and then we fall back again - there's NO surprise in this. Motivation is obviously no longer needed now, so it fails to show.
People no longer die of hunger, they travel continents to have more free stuff (their motovation being only envy) while those who have much free stuff since birth get bored with free stuff and lose all motivation because the element of challenge is lost, or the envy others, which ismotivation - but their cahnces to equal those others are low, which makes them depressed rather than motivated. These are simple mechanisms. Look at the people here, they're all members of overfed Western society. The right support would be to give them a challenge but in our maternalized society all we do is cuddle them to death, and all they manage to do is cry "victim!"

People "no longer die of hunger"? Are you fucking serious?

 

[Joannf]

People "no longer die of hunger"? Are you fucking serious?

No. Not on a grand scale the way they did last century. I'm quite serious.Check it out.

 

[AnnaJaspers]

No. Not on a grand scale the way they did last century. I'm quite serious.Check it out.

World Hunger Statistics: 23 Thought-Provoking Facts

Take a look at these 23 startling statistics on world hunger, and you may never view this topic the same way again.

www.creditdonkey.com

The World Counts - People who died from hunger

www.theworldcounts.com

 

[Lennox]

Shawn's story is how I found this forum. I was researching SN poisoning which led me to articles about her, which led me here.

 

[not_a_robot]

The piranha thread was a joke

Was does being pro-life mean on this forum? It seems to me that anyone who does not support suicide for adults in more or less any situation is some sadistic asshole who believes life has value.

Do I believe that adults should have a right to choose? Yes. Do I believe that they should be supported in their decision to kill themselves no matter what their reason is? No I don't.

You have never been pro-choice. You believe in the option of suicide only to be granted within your very narrow little purview in which you think you have moral authority to dictate to others whether or not their suffering is worthy of suicide.
You are staunchly anti-choice and always have been. "Pro-choice" doesn't just mean you enjoy dictating what choices other people are allowed to make. It's the opposite of that.
"

Like i said people should have the choice, but i dont believe they should be supported in their decision unless they have good reasons to end their life. I am not a nihilist maybe you are.

"good reasons" according to *your preferences*, not theirs.
You couldn't be more anti-choice if you tried.

 

[Conflicted Cat]

Speaking of that post, they really be using that damn piranha thread against all of us to make us look bad. That thread was supposedly a "joke", though I did not find it very funny, and it is not a reflection of all of us. I just want people to have the choice to die without pain and suffering.

 

[Shamana]

You have never been pro-choice. You believe in the option of suicide only to be granted within your very narrow little purview in which you think you have moral authority to dictate to others whether or not their suffering is worthy of suicide.
You are staunchly anti-choice and always have been. "Pro-choice" doesn't just mean you enjoy dictating what choices other people are allowed to make. It's the opposite of that.
"

"good reasons" according to *your preferences*, not theirs.
You couldn't be more anti-choice if you tried.

You are completely entitled to that point of view. There was a poster in here who wrote that he had a good life, good experiences, no mental or somatic illness and a great career, but he doesn't want to live till 30 and he knows that his suicide would devastate his Dad. If he told me his IRL details, would I call the cops to have him sectioned? No I wouldn't. I would however tell him that I think it's a bad idea to throw your life away if you have a great life. I'm sorry if that makes me a meany.

Similary there was a girl who said that she wasn't depressed, but just felt empty and wanted to shoot herself. Since my natural instinct is to help people, I just suggested that maybe there was some more creative ways to get rid of that emptiness than blow her brains out. Then she mentioned that she thought about cosmetic surgery and I can see she has some deep rooted problems. The thing is, it's difficult to know what people are struggling with. Comitting suicide is the most serious and fatal decision anyone can make. All i'm saying is that I feel this should be a very thought out decision and if people are hellbent on commiting suicide then I think it's better that they can die peacefully with Nembutal or whatever than being forced to be criminial and do it painfull and maybe uneffective ways.

 

[Meretlein]

Her mom is currently having a meltdown on Facebook. She can't accept that her daughter was suicidal for 10 years and found text online explaining how to end things painlessly. She wants to think that a bunch of misogynists forced her to join and then told her to kill herself. We didn't create the situation that made Shawn suicidal.

She is so selfish to have expected her daughter to suffer for her. She didn't live trapped in her daughter's mind. Treatment isn't a panacea and we accept that some people can't be saved when it comes to physical illness but don't feel the same for mental illness. I have said this before but I will say it again. David Foster Wallace compared suicide to jumping out of a burning building. Instead of trying to put out the fire she wants to bar the windows. It is pointless because there will always be a way to kill yourself but she wants to make the peaceful methods inaccessible. She doesn't know the situation of people on here and yet thinks she can have domain over our existence. On top of that she also has made things harder for sickly old people at exit international and plans to continue to do so.

The absence of pain is good and the absence of pleasure is only bad if there is someone to feel the deprivation. Humans intuitively know this. Why else would we want terrible criminals to stay alive and serve their sentence instead of killing themselves? I would be so embarrassed if my mom did what Jackie is doing. She should stop using her daughter's death to control others.

 

[Rukia]

You are completely entitled to that point of view. There was a poster in here who wrote that he had a good life, good experiences, no mental or somatic illness and a great career, but he doesn't want to live till 30 and he knows that his suicide would devastate his Dad. If he told me his IRL details, would I call the cops to have him sectioned? No I wouldn't. I would however tell him that I think it's a bad idea to throw your life away if you have a great life. I'm sorry if that makes me a meany.

I would call the cops...And I mean there are cases here that in my opinion the cops should have been involved...I am pro euthanasia but every country with euthanasia and even DIGNITAS and Exit forum have some rules and some ppl they wouldnt accept...

Do we have any way of filter mentally incompetent ppl?
Is there a difference between pro suicide and simply dont care no matter what?

 

[jake3d]

Do we have any way of filter mentally incompetent ppl?
Is there a difference between pro suicide and simply dont care no matter what?

We are talking pro CHOICE not pro SUICIDE. We do have a filter for mentally incompetent people, it's called "common sense". And IMHO what Shawn's mother is doing now is being mentally incompetent.

 

[Rukia]

I have my doubts...There are guests here that could be minors, mentally incompetent ppl...all the stuff is visible for them...
There are ppl as young as 18 here as registered users...

 

[not_a_robot]

We are talking pro CHOICE not pro SUICIDE. We do have a filter for mentally incompetent people, it's called "common sense". And IMHO what Shawn's mother is doing now is being mentally incompetent.

oooh, you gonna get deleted....
Oh wait, I forgot, *I'm* the only one around here who gets censored for saying the same shit other people are allowed to say. My mistake!

 

[jake3d]

I have my doubts...There are guests here that could be minors, mentally incompetent ppl...all the stuff is visible for them...
There are ppl as young as 18 here as registered users...

There are plenty of places on the Internet that show things which could be very harmful towards ones' health. Including Wikipedia, YouTube and Facebook. What are you going to do, get 90% of the internet shut down because some kids are retarded? I am saying this with no offence meant towards people who are actually mentally ill.

If you're looking for the watered-down, censored, super-pro-life version you should try here:

https://anonym.to/?https://www.suicideforum.com

oooh, you gonna get deleted....

Not a chance chica.

 

[Rukia]

Your link wont open, maybe it is a sign

 

[not_a_robot]

There are plenty of places on the Internet that show things which could be very harmful towards ones' health. Including Wikipedia, YouTube and Facebook. What are you going to do, get 90% of the internet shut down because some kids are retarded? I am saying this with no offence meant towards people who are actually mentally ill.

If you're looking for the watered-down, censored, super-pro-life version you should try here:

https://anonym.to/?https://www.suicideforum.com

Not a chance chica.

Certain mods just have a hard-on for deleting me because I'm so uh, special.

 

[M]

There are plenty of places on the Internet that show things which could be very harmful towards ones' health. Including Wikipedia, YouTube and Facebook. What are you going to do, get 90% of the internet shut down because some kids are retarded? I am saying this with no offence meant towards people who are actually mentally ill.

If you're looking for the watered-down, censored, super-pro-life version you should try here:

https://anonym.to/?https://www.suicideforum.com

Not a chance chica.

Wikipedia and other big tech sites are allowed to be "harmful to your health", but when it comes to anything else, they want you removed and scrubbed from the internet.

 

[M]

I have my doubts...There are guests here that could be minors, mentally incompetent ppl...all the stuff is visible for them...
There are ppl as young as 18 here as registered users...

Many things that are found here can be found elsewhere on the internet through a simple Google search. We can't control who views the site, unfortunately.

 

[jake3d]

Your link wont open, maybe it is a sign

They are blocking Tor. It works on a regular browser.

 

[Rukia]

Many things that are found here can be found elsewhere on the internet through a simple Google search. We can't control who views the site, unfortunately.

Thanks @Marquis for the reply...I dont blame anybody ...

It breaks my heart when ppl as young as 18 year olds are self-harming themselves and plan to CTB...How is somebody in process of actively harm themselves mentally capable?

Maybe you could just filter some cases and report them to the police?

Dont want to mention concrete cases but could send you PM...