A Simple Twist of Fate

[Aliaiactaest]

Does anyone here think that, but for a simple twist of fate, things might have been different and might still be different?

 

[ladolcemorte]

Does anyone here think that, but for a simple twist of fate, things might have been different and might still be different?

I always wonder about that. Sometimes I think if I had stayed at my very first job things would be different. Or if I hadn't made certain mistakes. Or if I had studied something else in school...maybe, maybe my life would be tolerable...

I obsess endlessly with the "what if's" and "if only"s. And then I think of the saying from the movie Garden State : "if it hadn't been this, it would be something else". I have a sneaking suspicion that even if I could go back in time, or start afresh with all debts (literal and figurative) forgiven, I would just make new mistakes. I expect I would end up in the same place (figuratively), just for different reasons.

 

[Lara Francis]

I believe in fate and think our lives are a series of events that were set out at birth.good or bad ,we were always going to make the decisions we made and take the actions we did.I just wish we could have seen how our lives were going to unfold because alot of us would have ctb along time ago without having to endure the total shit life threw at us along the way.

 

[alizee]

I think we live the same life again but fate will twist it as you put it and until we have our best life; I don't know what comes after that best life.

The reason I think this way is because everything is deterministic but an outside force can alter the determinism of our lives at any given moment to be different than a past life if our life was to repeat. I also can see our life repeating because the universe is infinite and not fixed. Meaning the same variables to get to our life can occur again for infinity.

 

[Theon]

I think it's less fate than either circumstances beyond one's control or bad choices. I am in the latter category. I had endless opportunities over the years to stop using drugs. People who tried incredibly hard to get me to stop. Yet I chose to use at every point. I had a lot to lose and I think I kept giving into the impulse because, well, I'm an addict, and deep down I thought losing everything...it meant being able to somehow come back from things. I never expected that the drugs would've have fucked up my brain chemistry the way they have. The worst feeling in the world is anxiety followed by depression and I currently have extreme versions of both. My life has become a living hell I never could've predicted. Thus why I'm on this website. So...no, I don't believe in fate. I used to more when things were going well. Part of the problem too. I thought I was somehow "blessed" and things would always work out ok. Never in a million years would I have predicted I'd be in the position I am today.

 

[alizee]

I think it's less fate than either circumstances beyond one's control or bad choices. I am in the latter category. I had endless opportunities over the years to stop using drugs. People who tried incredibly hard to get me to stop. Yet I chose to use at every point. I had a lot to lose and I think I kept giving into the impulse because, well, I'm an addict, and deep down I thought losing everything...it meant being able to somehow come back from things. I never expected that the drugs would've have fucked up my brain chemistry the way they have. The worst feeling in the world is anxiety followed by depression and I currently have extreme versions of both. My life has become a living hell I never could've predicted. Thus why I'm on this website. So...no, I don't believe in fate. I used to more when things were going well. Part of the problem too. I thought I was somehow "blessed" and things would always work out ok. Never in a million years would I have predicted I'd be in the position I am today.

You can read about hard determinism on Wikipedia. You shouldn't beat yourself up so much. We're conditioned in society to think we make choices that are our own because that's how capitalism and religion survives. Plenty of research shows we have no control and everything is predetermined. Me knowing what I know while writing this is fate. Knowledge of all this helps in a way of understanding reality to change if it's enough but it will still be fate making that decision. I wrote this because I feel bad when people think they're responsible when really they're not.

 

[WaterUnder]

Sometimes. Maybe there's that one point in time, I think, that all future potentialities along the same line are negated. I had an epiphany a few years back where I realized that even if what I wanted came to pass, that I would still be unfulfilled. The failure (for me, not speaking for anyone else) is from within, not from without.

Maybe circumstances, but more like maybe if I'd been braver.

If it were just circumstances, shouldn't we fight like hell to change them? And some of us have, but are here anyway.

I guess what I'm saying is that this is a young person's question. I'm past the point of caring (for myself, that is).

 

[Theon]

You can read about hard determinism on Wikipedia. You shouldn't beat yourself up so much. We're conditioned in society to think we make choices that are our own because that's how capitalism and religion survives. Plenty of research shows we have no control and everything is predetermined. Me knowing what I know while writing this is fate. Knowledge of all this helps in a way of understanding reality to change if it's enough but it will still be fate making that decision. I wrote this because I feel bad when people think they're responsible when really they're not.

I don't know, I feel saying it's fate is like an easy way out. I wish I could believe it.

 

[alizee]

I don't know, I feel saying it's fate is like an easy way out. I wish I could believe it.

It's not really an easy way out when that's just how reality is for us by being predetermined. I think it's quite difficult to accept all the bad events were fated and to be at peace with it.

 

[inconsequential]

If I would've had different parents.

Being born into a family of alcoholics, both with incest fantasies, does a child 0 favors.

 

[jake3d]

Does anyone here think that, but for a simple twist of fate, things might have been different and might still be different?

Yes, one hundred effin' percent. If just ONE of the things that led to me getting unrecoverably damaged hadn't happened, i would've been fine.

 

[Onomotopoeia]

I do not believe in fate however sometimes simple decisions have long lasting consequences or benefits you could not have seen but when looking back easily intertwine. I posted once before about how my decision to go for a walk led me to not CTB the only time in my life it ever felt like a sure thing.

Looking back and make connections is easy. To me this also makes it easy to assume that other simple seemingly trivial decisions can have lasting affects we cannot see.

It is a small part of why i'm still here. It's not magic it's luck but if it feels like magic does it matter?

 

[Dead beat dad]

Does anyone here think that, but for a simple twist of fate, things might have been different and might still be different?

I think George Michael said it best when he said something like;
'Take me back time maybe I can forget. Turn a different corner and we never would have met...'

 

[Aliaiactaest]

This isn't about hard determinism, which I don't believe in. I'm also not talking about bad choices. If you decide to rob a bank, then it shouldn't surprise you if there are negative consequences from that. I'm talking about everyday life choices, call them random if you may, but in either case, choices that are made with good intent. I went to this college, not that college. I married this girl, not that girl. I worked here and not there.

 

[alizee]

This isn't about hard determinism, which I don't believe in. I'm also not talking about bad choices. If you decide to rob a bank, then it shouldn't surprise you if there are negative consequences from that. I'm talking about everyday life choices, call them random if you may, but in either case, choices that are made with good intent. I went to this college, not that college. I married this girl, not that girl. I worked here and not there.

The thing is that all your intent with the choice that occurred was from the preceding events that made it so. Only your birth matters and we all understand there was no control there. It's funny that people believe what follows after birth is any different. Determinism is actually backed by science and where nothing scientific has evidence for free will.

 

[Scribble Fan]

I don't know, it was a myriad of burdens that got me trapped here. If any single situation twisted in another direction, there would still be the rest.

Hmm... maybe if we hadn't moved countries when I was a young child? I lost contact with my entire extended family, if we stayed together things could have been different. Now I don't have the motivation to get back after all these years, I'll just be relieved to ctb.

Can't guarantee that would have fixed life but it would've been nice.

 

[alizee]

@Scribble Fan what country did you move from and to where? Similar happened in my life when I was young.

 

[Scribble Fan]

@Scribble Fan what country did you move from and to where? Similar happened in my life when I was young.

Sorry you had to go through that as well.

England to the USA. What about you?

 

[GinaIsReady]

There will never be any way of knowing for sure.

 

[alizee]

Sorry you had to go through that as well.

England to the USA. What about you?

Canada to US. Wish I never left Canada. USA was religious ideology nonsense and bigotry. Thankfully I'm no longer there but my life was ruined because of it. I could go on and on about how behind the US is as a major but there's no reason to since most people likely understand why.

 

[Righttodie]

I for one follow this philosophy and am a believer of it where we all are in no control of what happens and nor are we morally responsible for what we do, since what we do is controlled and affected by circumstances that were never in our control.

So to say we chose our own destiny and all the thought of you can do something about your life doesn't stand true, if you never controlled the factors that dictated your life and where it has led you, like your genes, financial situation, parenting you got which conditioned you to be a certain way or the other and so many more factors affect who you are what you eve can be.

It's all just a game of blind luck. Some hit the jackpot and can live peacefully and love life. Others like me and many of us are here looking to end it because we can't stand the thought of living anymore.

How different are we from ants or a dog or a pig or any wild animal ?

We all have consciousness and life, they all get slaughtered or die one way or another, it doesn't make them any different from us.
We just have more ability to think than those species and can fear and love more than them, hence we created meaning through religions and other institutions to give us some solace that this universe isn't just a game of chance where we are left to struggle and die.

Because that thought of all this not making any sense or you not being able to have any control over it can be scary.
Hence religion can be a big hit, it sells hope and meaning.
It's good, People should believe in what they want to. If they think God is there, then it is there, for them.
We all live in our own worlds and have the right to.

 

[alizee]

I for one follow this philosophy and am a believer of it where we all are in no control of what happens and nor are we morally responsible for what we do, since what we do is controlled and affected by circumstances that were never in our control.

So to say we chose our own destiny and all the thought of you can do something about your life doesn't stand true, if you never controlled the factors that dictated your life and where it has led you, like your genes, financial situation, parenting you got which conditioned you to be a certain way or the other and so many more factors affect who you are what you eve can be.

It's all just a game of blind luck. Some hit the jackpot and can live peacefully and love life. Others like me and many of us are here looking to end it because we can't stand the thought of living anymore.

How different are we from ants or a dog or a pig or any wild animal ?

We all have consciousness and life, they all get slaughtered or die one way or another, it doesn't make them any different from us.
We just have more ability to think than those species and can fear and love more than them, hence we created meaning through religions and other institutions to give us some solace that this universe isn't just a game of chance where we are left to struggle and die.

Because that thought of all this not making any sense or you not being able to have any control over it can be scary.
Hence religion can be a big hit, it sells hope and meaning.
It's good, People should believe in what they want to. If they think God is there, then it is there, for them.
We all live in our own worlds and have the right to.

I totally agree with all of this, and you would see why if you read my post history.

Nevertheless, I enjoy the theory of multiple repeating lives and where there is the possibility of differences occurring. @Righttodie you obviously have read about physics, maybe even neuroscience and my background is a software engineer that dabbles in those fields. The word "time" doesn't portray how the universe truly plays out from start to finish and the word is just human expression attempting to share what we experience among all people.

In reality there are just forces exerted upon objects with their own unique properties and resulting in a deterministic outcome. Understanding this deterministic philosophy of reality and with the knowledge of how things can repeat; if all variables align again in a sector of space is supportive of the preceding theory.

Basically, we all could live the same exact life, or better or worse and depending on how forces get to our lives repeating but another force enters the picture than before. We also can ask ourselves if we really have a conscious or is that a perceived error by humans. Thus, the question if you die but were to live again to this exact moment.. are you.. you or is that not you?

No matter the case, if we were to die while wishing for something better and were to get it like something of a repeating life but altered. That's not really our doing in a real sense but would it matter? It's still enough in pleasing the person that has no control.

 

[Righttodie]

worse and depending on how forces get to our lives repeating but another force enters the picture than before. We also can ask ourselves if we really have a conscious or is that a perceived error by humans. Thus, the question if you die but were to live again to this exact moment.. are you.. you or is that not you?

This is quite interesting.

The answer to that could be answered by answering what really do we mean by "You" ?
Who are we anyway ? Are we all individuals with our own perceptions of What's around us at a particular moment in time.

I am interested in hearing your thoughts on Déjà vu, if you would entertain that idea.
Thanks

 

[alizee]

This is quite interesting.

The answer to that could be answered by answering what really do we mean by "You" ?
Who are we anyway ? Are we all individuals with our own perceptions of What's around us at a particular moment in time.

I am interested in hearing your thoughts on Déjà vu, if you would entertain that idea.
Thanks

I think it would be foolish if I dismissed "Déjà vu" while knowing the preceding in the previous post. There have been periods of my life where I definitely feel like I've experienced them before but I'm cautious to "put much belief in that feeling and or dismiss it" because I try to approach everything as a scientist. I prefer to live not by faith because I think faith is the root of evil when it comes to humans.

I definitely wonder if it's possible for our brains to be linked to past lives (if we lived them before). Thus, the forces exerted upon us producing outcomes, may be slightly altered by emotional differences occurring and may trigger a different reaction that offsets the chain of forces from the past life to be different in a new way going forward.

 

[Righttodie]

I think it would be foolish if I dismissed "Déjà vu" while knowing the preceding in the previous post. There have been periods of my life where I definitely feel like I've experienced them before but I'm cautious to "put much belief in that feeling and or dismiss it" because I try to approach everything as a scientist. I prefer to live not by faith because I think faith is the root of evil when it comes to humans.

I definitely wonder if it's possible for our brains to be linked to past lives (if we lived them before). Thus, the forces exerted upon us producing outcomes, may be slightly altered by emotional differences occurring and may trigger a different reaction that offsets the chain of forces from the past life to be different in a new way going forward.

I don't know if we are bound by past experiences which are repeating themselves.
Not knowing implies that either its possible or not.
True wisdom for me lies in accepting all contradictions and possibilities.

If it's possible, then yes, maybe the repetition can be altered by the reaction to those circumstances that occur. Assuming that we have control over our reaction, which I believe we dont.

Deja vu is interesting. I too find myself rejecting it as something a game my mind plays, but I have learnt to not do that.
Since then, I have seen it as truly an occurrence that's eery because of the similarity with something that's occurred before(redundant).

 

[Invisible 73]

P

I think it would be foolish if I dismissed "Déjà vu" while knowing the preceding in the previous post. There have been periods of my life where I definitely feel like I've experienced them before but I'm cautious to "put much belief in that feeling and or dismiss it" because I try to approach everything as a scientist. I prefer to live not by faith because I think faith is the root of evil when it comes to humans.

I definitely wonder if it's possible for our brains to be linked to past lives (if we lived them before). Thus, the forces exerted upon us producing outcomes, may be slightly altered by emotional differences occurring and may trigger a different reaction that offsets the chain of forces from the past life to be different in a new way going forward.

I definitely believe in past/multiple lives. Just read and talked to you many people to deny its real.

We are energy in meatsuits living this pathetic existence. Before were born, and we do choose to be, we plan the kind of life were to have.

Not each minute detail. But the family were gonna be born into, what gender we will be born, the major life lessons our soul needs to learn.

And we travel each life w.our same core soul circle, Parents/siblings. Taking a new role in each life as to what we are to each other. In order to work on whatever needs worked out.

This is the 1 thing about ctb that worries me. Bcos when u suicide, ur prematurely ending that lifes soul contract. So you are bound to reincarnating into another life, w.the same issues that made this one so hard, in order to still learn the lessons you stopped yourself from learning before.

Hopefully your soul comes back stronger, in order to better endure them next time around. But idk if I can go thru all this b.s. again

 

[alizee]

P

I definitely believe in past/multiple lives. Just read and talked to you many people to deny its real.

We are energy in meatsuits living this pathetic existence. Before were born, and we do choose to be, we plan the kind of life were to have.

Not each minute detail. But the family were gonna be born into, what gender we will be born, the major life lessons our soul needs to learn.

And we travel each life w.our same core soul circle, Parents/siblings. Taking a new role in each life as to what we are to each other. In order to work on whatever needs worked out.

This is the 1 thing about ctb that worries me. Bcos when u suicide, ur prematurely ending that lifes soul contract. So you are bound to reincarnating into another life, w.the same issues that made this one so hard, in order to still learn the lessons you stopped yourself from learning before.

Hopefully your soul comes back stronger, in order to better endure them next time around. But idk if I can go thru all this b.s. again

I enjoyed reading what you wrote here.. I've actually read similar but elsewhere online and I prefer how you wrote it.

Although, I'm skeptical of us having choice in whatever life we live that happens. The idea is interesting with all you listed and but when it came to choosing this or that just makes me skeptical. We're definitely just electrons as everything else..

Basically, it comes down to if electrons can share a "fingerprint from one another" and similar to what's classified as a soul to be unique but mainly for triggering memories and so deja vu would work for past lives remembrance (in case the life is repeating or new or remembering an old life). Although I could see only unlocking memories after one is dead, being a possibility and keeping deja vu not really real like the majority of the western world thinks of it.

Furthermore, the idea of suicide equates to getting a new life and that's similar in struggles is nonsense when understanding determinism. Even while understanding how the universe could be brute-forcing all forces until every event is perfect. I find that poor design and likely just incorporating that modal from other religious ideologies where the creator of this idea wanted to express punishment/judgement for suicide. Those two emotions are meaningless when you understand determinism and makes me think the universe wouldn't be designed around it.

 

[RM5998]

Extending on the determinism discussion, I like to say that we don't have the choice of a different fate, just the chance of one.

However, just appealing to determinism doesn't exactly remove the idea of personal responsibility - your brain is still the entity making 'decisions', and is still the construct that your actions arise from. Yes, you don't really choose what you do, but it doesn't mean that you can't be blamed for your errors and praised for your achievements. Our stories have been written for us, but we still need to act them out and laugh and cry at the events that take place.

The 'redoing life till the best run' idea has grounds in Nietzsche, who theorized that because the universe has been going on and will go on forever, we will live through infinite variations of our lives as civilizations rise and fall. And thus over time, we would have lived the best versions of our lives an infinite number of times. However, you would also live your worst life an infinite number of times by that theory - you can't really choose to just only have the best ones.

 

[Walilamdzi]

Yeah, I wish I could go back and do something different.

 

[alizee]

Extending on the determinism discussion, I like to say that we don't have the choice of a different fate, just the chance of one.

However, just appealing to determinism doesn't exactly remove the idea of personal responsibility - your brain is still the entity making 'decisions', and is still the construct that your actions arise from. Yes, you don't really choose what you do, but it doesn't mean that you can't be blamed for your errors and praised for your achievements. Our stories have been written for us, but we still need to act them out and laugh and cry at the events that take place.

The 'redoing life till the best run' idea has grounds in Nietzsche, who theorized that because the universe has been going on and will go on forever, we will live through infinite variations of our lives as civilizations rise and fall. And thus over time, we would have lived the best versions of our lives an infinite number of times. However, you would also live your worst life an infinite number of times by that theory - you can't really choose to just only have the best ones.

Half of what you wrote is in white.

Anyway I think blame is wrong when placed upon an individual because we're all in a society that's imperfect by the properties of reality and which is why a person may become damaged to a point of committing a wrong. The contrary is comparing the individual to another person and who doesn't do anything unpleasant because the events needed to do evil didn't occur.

That's why rehabilitation is a better modal than the current justice system in the western world that focuses on punishment. People who are not damaged will rarely if at all, do an unpleasant action and to another person. They rarely end up blaming themselves if at all.

Theoretically this argument can work for many things associated with blame. People just think they need to blame themselves if something happens but that's a straw man argument because the events shouldn't happen if society was perfect by the properties of reality; thus, it's the fault of society with nature's properties if we really examine what caused it it all.