Discussion A pseudo nihilist state is best

[sserafim]

Thoughts?

"One where you give up any need to follow some sort of ideal, any rule imposed on you, trying to fit any sort of role or anything
But nihilism doesn't have to be depressive in this sense, honestly just starting to view people like that as weak subhumans

You can still have ideals and goals because they genuinely follow what you want
Just don't limit yourself by anything that isn't your desire"

https://neets.net/threads/a-pseudo-nihilist-state-is-best.47706/

 

[OCDsufferer]

That could technically count as nihilism (no need for pseudo) beacause all that nihilism implies is that you believe life is meaningless, now what that means to you, would certainly have a different name list existencial nihilism or philosophical pessimism. In this case I'm sure there's a name for that somewhere though I'm really inclined to just name it regular nihilism.

But my thoughts on that no matter what label it has is simply that without being ultra rich and a man, how can I not limit myself? The fact that I must limit myself is outside of my control and that's part of why life as it is, is so bad.

 

[sserafim]

That could technically count as nihilism (no need for pseudo) beacause all that nihilism implies is that you believe life is meaningless, now what that means to you, would certainly have a different name list existencial nihilism or philosophical pessimism. In this case I'm sure there's a name for that somewhere though I'm really inclined to just name it regular nihilism.

But my thoughts on that no matter what label it has is simply that without being ultra rich and a man, how can I not limit myself? The fact that I must limit myself is outside of my control and that's part of why life as it is, is so bad.

This is his other comment

"Yeah sort of. I just mean a certain amorality.
Where your desires are what determine your frame of action because that's what it means to be free (although you could argue that following your desires isn't true freedom because you don't choose your desires, and yeah I can agree with this/need to think about itmore)
But at a certain point, I don't know if you've experienced it, but letting go of the idea of having to fit a certain role or to be a good person, the moral rules that society pushed on you, feels so liberating. It's an amazing feeling."

 

[EvisceratedJester]

My thoughts are that you've been spending a lot time on that site as of late.

 

[sserafim]

My thoughts are that you've been spending a lot time on that site as of late.

They're NEETs and I'm one as well. I lurk on there even though they're incels. Occasionally they say something insightful, but usually it's just toxic racism and misogyny. I guess I'm just mad that they banned me for being a woman so I retaliate by lurking because there's nothing else that I can do lol

 

[EvisceratedJester]

They're NEETs and I'm one as well. I lurk on there even though they're incels. Occasionally they say something insightful, but usually it's just toxic racism and misogyny. I guess I'm just mad that they banned me for being a woman

I guess, but even then I feel like their insight will likely be dampened by their toxicity and overly nihilistic and pessemtic view on the world around them. Also, sorry about them banning you, lol.

To be honest with you, I only really replied to this thread out of boredom. I thought that tripping on shrooms while cleaning my room would make it fun but it instead just amplified my feelings of boredom, lol.

 

[OCDsufferer]

This is his other comment

"Yeah sort of. I just mean a certain amorality.
Where your desires are what determine your frame of action because that's what it means to be free (although you could argue that following your desires isn't true freedom because you don't choose your desires, and yeah I can agree with this/need to think about itmore)
But at a certain point, I don't know if you've experienced it, but letting go of the idea of having to fit a certain role or to be a good person, the moral rules that society pushed on you, feels so liberating. It's an amazing feeling."

I suppose sort of like hedonism? Though without the active persuing of pleasure and instead just a sort of abyeance?

I'm inclined to agree that indeed that sounds delightful. After all my dream is to be truly sexless in every capacity but I cannot. Since Cain's death we have all been forced to live under a society in which some get to be at the top and others not. I do not believe that which he describes to be a possibility therefore I wonder on the value of contemplating it.

 

[annxietty]

I find these quotes extremely dangerous and pretty "meh", without judging you I would say to stay out from this kind of mindset, I hope you are not being influenced because I invite you to think deeply about those quotes, you will surely start to understand how wrong they are... I will never recommend to stop thinking, because I find it impossible and deep inside (even tho I hate thinking lol) I find it helpful. Nihilism sucks.

 

[sserafim]

I guess, but even then I feel like their insight will likely be dampened by their toxicity and overly nihilistic and pessemtic view on the world around them. Also, sorry about them banning you, lol.

To be honest with you, I only really replied to this thread out of boredom. I thought that tripping on shrooms while cleaning my room would make it fun but it instead just amplified my feelings of boredom, lol.

It's okay haha they would eventually out me anyways and honestly, I don't want to participate in such a toxic cesspool. I'll just take my losses and lurk. I guess it was for the best

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

You ain't getting that under communism, that's for sure. People love to fantasize about the benefits of having other people work for you but nobody wants to be the ones working for other people. Capitalism is much the same in that respect but at least it doesn't pretend it'll fully support lethargic lifestyles for everyone.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

, You ain't getting that under communism, that's for sure. People love to fantasize about the benefits of having other people work for you but nobody wants to be the ones working for other people. Capitalism is much the same in that respect but at least it doesn't pretend it'll fully support lethargic lifestyles for everyone.

Communism also doesn't pretend to support a lethargic lifestyle. Only those who come from a lot of wealth are able to live a lethargic lifestyle.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Communism also doesn't pretend to support a lethargic lifestyle. Only those who come from a lot of wealth are able to live a lethargic lifestyle.

I suppose on paper it doesn't but certainly a lot of people who show support for it seem to be under the impression that it will. I remember being told by a guy with a clipboard at my college to vote for Bernie Sanders in 2020 because once he's president we'd all just get to stay home all day smoking weed and playing video games.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I suppose on paper it doesn't but certainly a lot of people who show support for it seem to be under the impression that it will. I remember being told by a guy with a clipboard at my college to vote for Bernie Sanders in 2020 because once he's president we'd all just get to stay home all day smoking weed and playing video games.

Yeah, those people annoy me. They don't care about communism, they don't about anyone but themselves. Bernie Sanders is also more of a socialist from my knowledge, btw (socialism and communism aren't the same thing).

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Yeah, those people annoy me. They don't care about communism, they don't about anyone but themselves. Bernie Sanders is also more of a socialist from my knowledge, btw (socialism and communism aren't the same thing).

I am aware but I feel like these days you can't have one without associating it with the other. I find that many who want to transition the government into socialism see communism as the end goal anyway. I have personal reasons to be opposed to communism (family fled from China to Taiwan over it even though I am also aware that it isn't """real communism""").

As for nihilism though I think the cynicism in me also doesn't really think it will lead to any meaningful change.

 

[sserafim]

I am aware but I feel like these days you can't have one without associating it with the other. I find that many who want to transition the government into socialism see communism as the end goal anyway. I have personal reasons to be opposed to communism (family fled from China to Taiwan over it even though I am also aware that it isn't """real communism""").

As for nihilism though I think the cynicism in me also doesn't really think it will lead to any meaningful change.

No true communism has ever been implemented in reality. China is authoritarian and totalitarian, yet there are also privately owned companies and a stock market. It's not communist lol. It's "socialism with Chinese characteristics"

 

[EvisceratedJester]

I am aware but I feel like these days you can't have one without associating it with the other. I find that many who want to transition the government into socialism see communism as the end goal anyway. I have personal reasons to be opposed to communism (family fled from China to Taiwan over it even though I am also aware that it isn't """real communism""").

As for nihilism though I think the cynicism in me also doesn't really think it will lead to any meaningful change.

Well I mean, communism is the end goal. Socialism is just a transition phase really. With that in mind, China isn't an actual communist country. It doesn't meet the true definition of it. Just like with other so-called "communist countries" they have yet to abolish capitalism. While socialism can exist alongside capitalism, capitalism cannot exist alongside communism. Countries like China aren't actual communist states.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

No true communism has ever been implemented in reality. China is authoritarian and totalitarian, yet there are also privately owned companies and a stock market. It's not communist lol. It's "socialism with Chinese characteristics"

Well I mean, communism is the end goal. Socialism is just a transition phrase really. With that in mind, China isn't an actual communist country. It doesn't meet the true definition of it. Just like with other so-called "communist countries" they have yet to abolish capitalism. While socialism can exist alongside capitalism, capitalism cannot exist alongside communism. Countries like China aren't actual communist states.

I am also aware that it isn't """real communism""".

That's always how it starts though. People hold revolutions and it always sounds nice at first but then the inherent selfishness of humans rears its ugly head and manifests itself to become even more authoritarian than the start. Maybe these revolutions can only happen when they're selfishly motivated in the first place which is why I don't have much hope for it to help even if it were to occur.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

That's always how it starts though. People hold revolutions and it always sounds nice at first but then the inherent selfishness of humans rears its ugly head and manifests itself to become even more authoritarian than the start. Maybe these revolutions can only happen when they're selfishly motivated in the first place which is why I don't have much hope for it to help even if it were to occur.

That's the thing, a lot of very selfish people like to pay lip-service to communist ideals but the minute these people are put into positions of power they immediately start showing their true colours. Humans can be very selfish but we can also be very caring and selfless too. The thing is, the ones who do care aren't usually the ones looking to be in power.

At this point, I'll take anything over capitalism so long as it's geared towards helping working class. Our world has become so obsessed with money and power and the idea of making a "big impact" that we barely ever focus on just trying to make the place more sustainable to live in. It's honestly frustrating. I'm honestly not very good at articulating my thoughts, so I'm sorry if it's hard to see where I'm getting at here. I think these comments under a thread on reddit talking about some weird racist meme (that involved glorifying alcohol and bashing weed and psychedelics for some reason) highlight what I'm talking about best:

 

[Argo]

That's the thing, a lot of very selfish people like to pay lip-service to communist ideals but the minute these people are put into positions of power they immediately start showing their true colours. Humans can be very selfish but we can also be very caring and selfless too. The thing is, the ones who do care aren't usually the ones looking to be in power.

I think that's a huge insight, and you can use questions like that, "What is the *actual* motivation?" to any philosophical idea like nihilism, or like free will, or anything. People try too hard to deal with the facts being presented, the ideas, the reasoning. Just throw all that out and look at the person. Why are they saying what they're saying, given what we understand about humans? Asking that more fundamental question, is a much more reliable path to truth than playing the former language game of ideas, narrow facts presented, and so on.

For nihilism specificially it's just self-defeating, it makes no fucking sense at all. There's no meaning, huh? What? Then... what the fuck does that even mean? That thing you just said? Gleerpordfk gkj ajksd gl? What are you even doing? Oh... you mean *moral* nihilism. My bad. *People* don't actually matter. Okay. Put your face into the hot stove now then. Oh... what's that? You won't? Well... why not? What better way to show it's all irrelevant? It would really strongly signal a commitment to what you claim to believe. Hmm... I still don't smell burnt human flesh. Strange.

Anyway, the more you deal with the actual narrow reasonings back and forth, when they're full of shit, the crazier you eventually become. Because that game never ends. It is like a game children with infinite energy play, where it won't actually end until force intervenes to stop it. Someone can infinitely justify and counterargue and do all kinds of tricks and games with words that go nowhere, even if they look like they're going somewhere, or even if lots of important people take it very seriously. The technical term for this mentally ill circus is "academic philosophy"

So just ignore the presentation, it's superficial. Look deeply (either in yourself, or in others), and ask, "What's the motivation? What's the benefit from this?"