A much needed thread?

[AngelOfDeath01]

Due to the recent cumulation of strange threads I thought why not make one that will get lost after few hours.

I mean all of us are consumed by the latest drama happening ( Whether participating or just watching).So I'll understand if this thread die within an hour. Maybe our life has become even more dull ( I know for sure mine has) and we are looking to get a kick of this absurd new threads?

So enough dancing around the main point.
This used to be a special place and sanctuary for me and countless others, has become full of bullying and harassing. I don't agree with with a lot of the lastest posters here. They may have a hidden pro-life agenda? I can even make bolder assumptions about the OP of the now infamous "SN" is painful thread.

HOWEVER why has people become more and more arrogant here? This forum is for desperate folks who seek for a bit of comfort with like-minded people. You can give your advice/opinion without sounding harsh and ungracious.

Regarding CH 's thread, I feel sorry that he came here looking for advice and support to be unpleasantly surprised by some passive-aggressive replies.

I know some members feel entitled to give their "unsolicited" advice,and by all means do it but never discredit or belittle the pain of someone or make them ashamed of their feelings. You can never put yourself in someone else's shoes. You can say that you would trade place with him in a heart beat. However he might as well endure your pain and not ctb if he were at your place.

Please don't mock other people.Specially new members. You may feel wary and prudent about them which is perfectly understandable and wise due to the latest scams ( My heart goes out to who've been scammed here ). But this is the internet and we are thousands times more confident behind our screens but we are still talking to real people with real feelings. Your "innocent" jokes might push someone over the edge here.

In a nutshell, I invite everyone to treat others with a little more of respect and caring. We all need it here. I don't want SS to turn into a grim place either. But the suicide discussion place has turn into a toxic place. If you want some fun, have it by all means in the off-topic but don't make it on the expense of a member. That's textbook bullying.

Sanctioned suicide is the best community I have ever been. I fear for it to turn into a shit hole like many other sites. I enjoy reading through the heartfelt stories, the relatable ventings, the sharp-witted replies... We can all get our point across with a bit more understanding and kindness. Sending love/hugs to all the ss peeps.

 

[falconeyes]

My comment in "SN is painful thread" concluded your opinion here, i was surprised to see such responses from ppl who are supposed to be supportive not bullies.

 

[MeltingHeart]

the thing is i think the arrogance and joking is sometimes used as response, retort and defence for what they may consider is actually a form of bullying in itself (all be it hidden in a veiled disguise of advising other members) but when someone is posting multiple posts over and over again of what is at the end of the day simply there own belief or understanding; that is proselytising (a form of bullying in itself), which is actually mentioned in the how to conduct yourself thing (Dos & Donts) on here. Some people could argue to defend what they believe, against someone being overly pushy about their ideas, others use humour or even a flippant remark as there way to deal with it (and others may indeed agree that in that instance it is a valid response). Sometimes people have mentioned someone is being bullied on here, when I would consider that very same person to in fact be the bully in the very same thread. Alot of these so called 'problems' can be totally subjective and open to interpretation. We might be like minded but everyone has very different personalities. Also just as in texts to friends (only more so as we have never heard each other speak)- its easy for things that are said, (especially jokes) to be taken the wrong way - as you cant gauge the tone they were said in. Sometime I guess it just comes down to agreeing to disagree and then moving on.

 

[charlie_z]

We can all get our point across with a bit more understanding and kindness. Sending love/hugs to all the ss peeps.

Yes.

 

[AngelOfDeath01]

the thing is i think the arrogance and joking is sometimes used as response, retort and defence for what they may consider is actually a form of bullying in itself (all be it hidden in a veiled disguise of advising other members) but when someone is posting multiple posts over and over again of what is at the end of the day simply there own belief or understanding; that is proselytising (a form of bullying in itself), which is actually mentioned in the how to conduct yourself thing (Dos & Donts) on here. Some people could argue to defend what they believe, against someone being overly pushy about their ideas, others use humour or even a flippant remark as there way to deal with it (and others may indeed agree that in that instance it is a valid response). Sometimes people have mentioned someone is being bullied on here, when I would consider that very same person to in fact be the bully in the very same thread. Alot of these so called 'problems' can be totally subjective and open to interpretation. We might be like minded but everyone has very different personalities. Also just as in texts to friends (only more so as we have never heard each other speak)- its easy for things that are said, (especially jokes) to be taken the wrong way - as you cant gauge the tone they were said in. Sometime I guess it just comes down to agreeing to disagree and then moving on.

I agree with everything you've said to an extent. Sometimes it is a gray area and it is hard to define who's being bullied and who is the bully. This thread is nothing but a gentle reminder to be kinder to each other. I don't mind the different personalities here. That what's make this place wonderful and intresting to navigate through. Maybe I've just become way too sensitive for earth these days...

 

[Daniela]

Perhaps mocking newbies (likely desperate as myself) will drive them into the scammers' arms.

A newbie asks a naive or a lazy question, gets mocked. A scammer PMs him or her and offers to answer their questions patiently. etc etc...


Yes, we're all adults here (I hope), but maybe it's worth thinking about

 

[Soul]

Perhaps mocking newbies (likely desperate as myself) will drive them into the scammers' arms.

A newbie asks a naive or a lazy question, gets mocked. A scammer PMs him or her and offers to answer their questions patiently. etc etc...


Yes, we're all adults here (I hope), but maybe it's worth thinking about

Exactly. If someone's tired of answering familiar questions for new people they can leave them for someone else to respond to. Making fun of them or dissing them is the opposite of what we're here for: to understand and support each other.

 

[Sweet emotion]

Due to the recent cumulation of strange threads I thought why not make one that will get lost after few hours.

I mean all of us are consumed by the latest drama happening ( Whether participating or just watching).So I'll understand if this thread die within an hour. Maybe our life has become even more dull ( I know for sure mine has) and we are looking to get a kick of this absurd new threads?

So enough dancing around the main point.
This used to be a special place and sanctuary for me and countless others, has become full of bullying and harassing. I don't agree with with a lot of the lastest posters here. They may have a hidden pro-life agenda? I can even make bolder assumptions about the OP of the now infamous "SN" is painful thread.

HOWEVER why has people become more and more arrogant here? This forum is for desperate folks who seek for a bit of comfort with like-minded people. You can give your advice/opinion without sounding harsh and ungracious.

Regarding CH 's thread, I feel sorry that he came here looking for advice and support to be unpleasantly surprised by some passive-aggressive replies.

I know some members feel entitled to give their "unsolicited" advice,and by all means do it but never discredit or belittle the pain of someone or make them ashamed of their feelings. You can never put yourself in someone else's shoes. You can say that you would trade place with him in a heart beat. However he might as well endure your pain and not ctb if he were at your place.

Please don't mock other people.Specially new members. You may feel wary and prudent about them which is perfectly understandable and wise due to the latest scams ( My heart goes out to who've been scammed here ). But this is the internet and we are thousands times more confident behind our screens but we are still talking to real people with real feelings. Your "innocent" jokes might push someone over the edge here.

In a nutshell, I invite everyone to treat others with a little more of respect and caring. We all need it here. I don't want SS to turn into a grim place either. But the suicide discussion place has turn into a toxic place. If you want some fun, have it by all means in the off-topic but don't make it on the expense of a member. That's textbook bullying.

Sanctioned suicide is the best community I have ever been. I fear for it to turn into a shit hole like many other sites. I enjoy reading through the heartfelt stories, the relatable ventings, the sharp-witted replies... We can all get our point across with a bit more understanding and kindness. Sending love/hugs to all the ss peeps.

I think I know exactly what you're talking about. A post got shut down today because someone was so disrespectful and insensitive and insulting to someone else. I'm actually being hit on right now. It's disgusting.

 

[GreyMonkey]

Drama finds a way everywhere.

 

[Morphinekiss]

The thing that really upsets me about the mocking of newbies, is everyone was new here once.

People forget everyone comes with a different set of luggage including the inability to sometimes comprehend what others assume is common knowledge. No we can't and shouldn't spell out directions for people, but geesh, some of the mockery that goes on seriously could drive someone to something drastic because they didn't feel comfortable staying here and learning.

 

[Sweet emotion]

Drama finds a way everywhere.

Well you know who created all that bullshit today. Don't know if it was a man or woman but they needed to be taken off the site. They were begging the administration to take the OP off the site just because of his wants and opinions. Everyone was acting like a hypocrite to this poor person. Especially the person with the rose as there avatar. Forget what it said on it. He called people disgusting names. I had to block him but I hope he was taken down.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

This used to be a place of sanctuary for me. The last bolt I had. Now I don't know. Potential scammers, pro-life trolls and mocking replies. I have enough drama and tragedy in my waning life. People shouldn't be afraid to ask questions for fear of being mocked. People shouldn't be afraid to point out their reservations with methods. Maybe they go to far. What happened to patience? What happened to not feeding the trolls?
Maybe I am naive or just vulnerable. There's always going to be arguments, I guess I was naive to expect better. I want to feel safe here but I'm no longer sure I do.

 

[Sweet emotion]

This used to be a place of sanctuary for me. The last bolt I had. Now I don't know. Potential scammers, pro-life trolls and mocking replies. I have enough drama and tragedy in my waning life. People shouldn't be afraid to ask questions for fear of being mocked. People shouldn't be afraid to point out their reservations with methods. Maybe they go to far. What happened to patience? What happened to not feeding the trolls?
Maybe I am naive or just vulnerable. There's always going to be arguments, I guess I was naive to expect better. I want to feel safe here but I'm no longer sure I do.

Hey there. Just wanted to see how you're holding up.

 

[LonelyLight]

So much I want to say, but all I'll say is I agree with you OP. There are bullies on this site, sugarcoat it however you want, *oh it's just a laugh* no, don't laugh at the expense of others. It IS bullying. Theres having a joke, *and I LOVE a joke and a laugh* and then taking it too far.



*humiliates *emotionally *online being the key words I would apply to this place.

 

[LMFAO FOCKERS]

I'm not sure what you are referring to as bullying because sometimes this word is subjective and overly used. I'm not saying that there wasnt any bullying either. (There are some posts that may have clearly crossed the line.) I'm just pointing out that people may miscategorize snappy banter as bullying when in fact they might be just posts from strongly opinionated straight shooters...


Honestly when someone posts a strong opinion about a polarizing topic, its expected and natural that the post will garner strong responses. When people post opinions leaning to one side ignoring that there is equal information on the internet pointing to another opinion, I find that to be highly subjective reasoning. If a person wants to use subjective reasoning as a basis for a post, then what you get is expected.

Nothing in that post suggested "I'm seeking information." I say that with strong conviction b/c there were others on the thread truly seeking information and you could point them out by the difference in the language used. It's almost like those stupid threads on twitter between red and blue political beliefs. Neither side "wins" it just becomes a dumping ground for memes and useless banter. If you create a dumping ground, dont be surprised when you get chit.

 

[MaybeMaybeKnot]

I always want people to get along. The Hartman Profile always pegs me as the diplomat. I like peace. However, I don't like bullshit. Sometimes it's hard to be tolerant of someone who seems to just be trying to agitate. However, some valid points have been made in this thread. We all are or were vulnerable at some point and drawn to this safe haven. We need to do better at finding out middle ground between guiding newbies and protecting our pals.

 

[MeltingHeart]

But what was going on with that OP yesterday? I know they were 'bullied' in some senses, but I think maybe it was all a very strong reaction (I wont ive an opinion in this case in whether the bullying was' justified' or not) to the other recent scammer- & everyone could smell a rotton egg staight away- either they were pro-life shock tactics, or maybe even pushing people to try 'other method' that they funnily enough seemed to have access to- i even got a PM to suggest this theory. I guess in this instance it should simply be reported to a mod- I suppose maybe some people were trying to 'call them out' in public. Though I guess that shouldnt be the way it is handled incase this was not the case- but it did just seem SO extreme in the scaremongering factor- on what they had obviously realised was a popular choice in method.

 

[Stan]

I feel as if I have to add as I feel I am being named through behaviour but not by name explicitly. Warning: If you have read any of my previous posts or ramblings and don't like my writing style or opinions/approach based on what you have read in the past, then skip reading this post as it is not going to change your mind one iota.

The principle and sentiment put forward by the OP I share completely. This place is and should remain to be a haven for those in need of both the subject matter and be able to share thoughts and feelings that in other scenarios would be sneered at and poor judgement placed upon you. Sadly we don't live in the perfect world, if we did, then I would guess that a number of us who have depression through environmental/situational causes rather than biological would not be here. Just as much as we live in the real world, there are levels of protection to allow individuals to go about their daily activities without fear or negative impact. They range from authorities such as law enforcement down to an individual doing a civic/moral duty and doing what they believe is right. These things happen everyday whether we overtly recognise them or not and without doubt, makes the world a better place.

This forum is in itself an ecosystem that sustains the ability for people to share information and feelings. Here comes 'Conspiracy Stan' now. If members do not believe in any way that this site has not been targeted by people who do not share the same philosophy as the authentic members, then I am afraid a reality check needs to be had. Evidence is rife here from the suicide wiki being hacked and changed, to PPH pages in the Resource section and recently bringing to attention that scammers are at work here again. Can someone be wrongly identified as being considered harmful to the site. Absolutely! That would be an arrogant thing to believe anyone truly knows more or better than your peers. But is saying nothing at all a good thing? Evidence is essential in this situation and for sure, rumour should not be taken as truth. In the case of that SN thread, the evidence started in the title of the damn thing which truly looked to me as beyond suspicious.

A lot of people here want to see only the good in others, I admire that. Slightly jealous at times that I can't do that. But as an individual, when I see something is wrong, I can't be a bystander. I am wired to stand up and say "Hey! What's this about?" Especially in the areas of spreading misinformation on a subject I am pretty well familiar with. I don't go onto 80% of the threads on this site, why? If I have no knowledge then I personally have no reason to be there. There are a few methods out there that for my personal tastes are an immediate 'no', but I don't go onto those threads and say that. Why should I? I add no value to either the method or to the state of mind for someone researching it.

So going back to the ecosystem and how to protect it. I am afraid I have to bastardise Newtons Laws of of Physics and go along the lines of to negate the power of one force, you need an opposite and equal force. Inevitably in the context of threads here it means this will result in a firestorm. As I said yesterday in that thread, unfortunately things have to become adversarial in the process of giving balance. If one person shouts, sometimes you have to shout back. Do I like that, not at all. Gives me no real pleasure, I prefer the more intellectual debate citing sources for where I am coming from. That educates everyone on both sides of the debate and it's down to the individual to make up their own mind. Going back to yesterday's drama, not many of those citations were practical and were hosted on blog sites which means they can be manipulated (fake news/altered text). I only use links to academic or medical resource sites that have quality control on the information held there. Going back to 'Conspiracy Stan' for a moment let me tell you another scenario that may or may not be in play here. There could be a few pro-lifers at work here simultaneously. Someone makes a bold statement, that on it's own does not make it valid to some individuals thought process. That statement then gets validated by one or more people. Then it somehow becomes more valid as people are backing up that point of view. Think about that for a while and see if that resonates with you all.

So let's evaluate the word 'bullying' as it is a significant word and the behaviour irl has been a negative impact for many people and the isolation and anguish it gives to a victim is terrible. However for here and subjectively for how I write, I never by design ever do that, it is hopefully against my nature and personality. I try to think of myself as a helpful and concerned person. If that does not come across at times, then I am sad that I have failed to achieve that. Do I use humour a lot - hell yeah. Not that most of it is any good, but it is a far better thing than using excessive curse words and throwing personal insults at someone. I always try to use humour to the subject and not the individual. Yesterday, in that now infamous thread, a member said to me something which I read as (this is not word for word) "Go eat shit and kill yourself". Now that passed by without a blink or acknowledgement to the depth or meaning of that statement. Did I respond? No way! For me it was obvious then that the OP had understood that what I considered to be 'an agenda/trolling exercise' failed because when the facts fall over, the debate is lost. But was surprised that regardless of what side the debate members were favouring, whether it was thought that one or both both sides were acting as bullies, that that statement wasn't held up in isolation and for someone to say "Whoa!!!! Line crossed!!!" Just didn't happen.

Whether you like it or not, to protect this ecosystem that is this forum, having individuals that are happy to do some straight talking and are willing to stick their necks out and do a civic duty is needed. Recently a thread started about a scammer. Subject was raised, the member's name revealed and there were a few posts stating that they didn't believe it and insinuating that people are being paranoid. It is absolutely right and correct if an accusation is made then evidence has to be presented. When that evidence was presented, those same people then went quiet. No offer of sympathy to the victims or correcting themselves in their assessment. To be honest, I was completely sold on that user being genuine so it was a huge and disappointing revelation for me. The OP of that thread stuck their neck out to do a civic duty to protect fellow members, many pages of responses. How many of those responses were a thank you to the thread owner in doing something to protect vulnerable members. Last count was one!

Consequentially if you don't have this type of personality type willing to stand up to the negative influences, then the quality of the site will be diminished. There is no point in a years time remembering the good old days because the site is now full of scammers, trolls and useless information that puts people off safe and peaceful methods. Mods are not a 24/7 police force that instantly view and assess every single new post that is made.

In conclusion, this little essay is not so much about explaining myself. I am gone in 3 weeks so you won't have to put up with me for much longer. This is more about giving a reality check that this site can not run with good wishes and rainbows alone. Sometimes people have to stick their neck out with the risk of looking like the bad guy with the greater goal of helping to keep this place the haven people want it to be.

 

[trynacbt]

I apologize if I hurt anyone with my postings yesterday. As a relatively new member myself, I've come to understand some of the joking around to be a part of the culture of SS, and something I personally see as a positive (I am not referring to the mocking; merely the wit). I did not mean to be rude or biting, only to lighten things a little

 

[MeltingHeart]

@Stan , can I ask, what do you mean about PPH handbook in resources? whats happened to them?

 

[Stan]

@Stan , can I ask, what do you mean about PPH handbook in resources? whats happened to them?

As stated above, if the method isn't mine then I know very little about it. But someone mentioned the other day that the email addresses in the PPH posted through this site had been altered. I feel hypocritical now as I cannot verify if that is fact or fiction.

 

[MeltingHeart]

As stated above, if the method isn't mine then I know very little about it. But someone mentioned the other day that the email addresses in the PPH posted through this site had been altered. I feel hypocritical now as I cannot verify if that is fact or fiction.

Ahh I see- ok, i never saw about the emails being altered- so wasnt sure what that was in reference to. that was all, thanks.

 

[bukowski]

As stated above, if the method isn't mine then I know very little about it. But someone mentioned the other day that the email addresses in the PPH posted through this site had been altered. I feel hypocritical now as I cannot verify if that is fact or fiction.

This is the thread where the altered PPH was posted

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/any-one-have-a-copy-of-this-book.10723/

 

[SinisterKid]

Am I a bully? Possibly, you make your own mind up. Am I arrogant? Possibly, the same applies. Am I passive-aggressive? I cant answer because I dont actually understand what it means. Do I have a sense of humour? Most certainly.

THAT thread late last night was funny to me. Someone said we needed a laugh emote/emoji whatever you call them, so a couple of us posted laughter giffs. I am old, so dont know all the terminology. If that makes me obnoxious, then so be it. The rest as they say is history. I went to bed as it was late here.

I do take the piss out of myself, others and situations, for so many different reasons. Its seldom meant in a harmful manner, but others, might not see it as such. I apologise for that. Its a forum, with a whole host of cultures, religions etc etc etc, so there will be misunderstandings sometimes, there will be instances where someones words are considered bullying or aggressive. Its the nature of the beast. If you post on a forum, you are soliciting others to reply, be that with advice or opinion or links to articles. If you dont want replies, in all their guises, maybe you should not be posting on a forum in the first place?

So now, I am off to eat a weight watchers meal that tastes like something I dont have the words to describe so that I have the energy to hopefully laugh a little when I return later. Hopefully a few of you might laugh with me or at me, both are good

After all, this is a Pro Choice forum and sometimes I choose to laugh about this life.

 

[Neville1]

@Stan

Yesterday, in that now infamous thread, a member said to me something which I read as (this is not word for word) "Go eat shit and kill yourself". Now that passed by without a blink or acknowledgement to the depth or meaning of that statement.

Instead of writing that the "eat shit" post crossed a line, many of us reported it resulting in the person being banned. Isn't that acknowledging it?

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sodium-nitrate-is-painful.25551/page-5#post-464109

 

[Stan]

To be honest @Neville1 , We won't know if the user was banned or self banned. It's going to be a polarised subject so I am a bit loathed to add too much more to what I said above and for this to become another flash point. But there is a little story that highlights what I am trying to communicate above.

This is a story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody. There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that, because it was Everybody's job. Everybody thought Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it. It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have.

Edit: My apologies to @Neville1 . I promised myself not to return to that thread. Just read what you mean so I can see it now. Thank you!

 

[WhiteDespair]

There are many personality types around here. There are many people in different states. The same person can behave differently at different times for different reasons. The backgrounds and forums from which we come influences us as well.

Taken together, these and other unlisted factors, contribute to how we respond. Some of us have thicker skin, others thinner. Some more blunt, others soften.

There is, at least, one person who appears to have changed a bit since posting here.

I know that this place has influenced me somehow.

I know I'm arrogant. I know I'm an asshole. I know I'm the most wretched piece of human detritus on this planet. I know I should've been decked in the face or given a ticket and forced on a bus many, many times with the misery I've wrought and people I've injured.

If there is a solution, I'm not smart enough to figure it out.

I've tried just thinking twice, taking whatever action I felt necessary and/or backing off when things got too heated for my tastes. However successfully I've managed that is another thing entirely.

 

[woxihuanni]

I fully agree with @Stan. There is a need to protect this last haven, and it sometimes requires measures other than a group hug.

 

[oopswronglife]

*Fuck it if I cannot say what I meant to say then I will edit it all out...it's obvious it doesn't matter. This place is a mess all the way around.

 

[Alec]