A good video regarding the waste of money and resources on suicide prevention

[TAW122]

In case anyone has seen this guy, Eye Doubt It, on YouTube, he is a pro-choicer and champion of the right to die. He is also the one who has made a video about the evils and ills of suicide prevention and how pro-lifers force their will and values onto everyone else.

Anyways, in this video he addresses the massive waste of money ($211 million USD) on the safety net/barrier addition to the Golden Gate Bridge (GGB), which is an famous suicide hotspot. So here are just some main points he addressed in the video.

• He addresses how that money could have been put to better use, such as allowing people who wish to die a dignified, peaceful death, the resources (mainly N, and other peaceful drugs, medicine) that they need and done in a professional, clinical setting.
• He wants to legalize voluntary euthanasia, meaning that each individual (of legal age of course and with some safeguards and measures in place, like having a mental health screening through a therapist, counselor, psychologist, etc. before proceeding) should have the right to exit on their own terms, regardless of what society says it is.
• He talks about how pro-lifers/forced-lifers are evil for imposing their moral values and will onto everyone, including the people who wish to die.
• He says that many people who CTB, oftenly have to go through such great lengths and resort to many ugly methods (violent and sometimes not always reliable, or cause collateral damage) in order to end their suffering. Thus, if voluntary euthanasia is available, then all those people would not have to go through that.
• He also mentioned that many billions (110 billion) of people existed and died in order for us (people who are alive today) to exist and that life itself is meaningless. Philosophically, it does make sense because life (inherently) has no objective meaning, only the meaning that we assign it and partly due to human survival/preservation instincts.

There are many other details he mentioned in the video, but those are just the main points of his video. I fully support this guy's arguments and views and I hope that someday his advocacy will reach the important audience and perhaps change some of the current laws we have in society regarding how society and government deals with the suicidal.

 

[rebelsue]

I agree with this guy, too, for the most part. I just have so much doubt that humanity will ever make this legal and available. That survival instinct is strong as fuck. That's why we have overpopulated the planet. I would be more willing to believe that we'd legalize heroin before legalizing physician assisted suicide for all. It's just way too biologically rooted.

One thing that is SO ANGERING about the prevention movement is that you cannot be heard if you are honest about how you feel. My therapist who is otherwise a pretty good due basically told me, "as soon as you say the word suicide I can't hear anything else you're saying. All my attention has to go toward preventing your suicide." It's context independent. We can't actually even talk about these feelings openly for the purpose not feeling them anymore. We can't work through them because of the incredibly strong drive to save all lives at all costs no matter what. My therapist doesn't care the reason. If my husband divorced me, after 10 years of convincing me that it was safe to depend on him financially, I'd be in a homeless shelter. I might get raped or murdered as a young woman in a shelter. I don't deserve that. I don't deserve to go out like that but that is what would happen. And I'm supposed to not feel like killing myself over that? I'd honestly wonder about a person who DIDN'T feel like dying over that.

My therapist accused me of creating a hostage situation by saying what I needed in order to not kill myself. It's absurd what the prevention movement does to the mental health providers...these are the people who we trust...and I can't trust them. They think my life matters more than I do, in a way. It's like earning body points in a swim meet. Maybe people think we'll win life the more of us there are.

The fear of a lost life actually prevents first responders from actually being able to save lives, honestly. If there was a person I could trust to talk about my suicidal thoughts who isn't going to freak out and call the cops because of this zero-tolerance approach, I might actually not want to die someday. That person would have to be comfortable with the possibility that I will kill myself anyway, but the zero-tolerance approach prevents them from being comfortable with that. For letting other people be other people. They tell me all the time that I can't change other people, that I can't control what other people do, and that I should let go of that. But suicide is the exception. They are logically inconsistent and it has the opposite of effect of what they are trying to accomplish.

They all think we're nuts. The prevention movement thinks we're all just depressed weirdos who don't understand that every life is special and every life should be saved no matter what. They think we are the ones doing it wrong. They are wrong. Their pollyanna bullshit is philosophically inconsistent.

 

[TAW122]

@rebelsue Excellent post and very thorough. For your first point about society legalizing hard drugs before legalizing voluntary euthanasia along with physician assisted suicide, yeah sadly that seems to be the direction that society is going in.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation with your therapist. What you described about the people getting shafted all because a MHP (mental health professional) hears some magic words or phrases such as "suicide", "danger", "taking one's own life", "death", "kill", etc. Also, your therapist is an asshole for guilt tripping and accusing you of making some hostage situation (basically invalidating your concerns and kicking you while you were down ).

In regards to trust and the people that were supposed to help us, it really is a big joke as the help isn't really help but rather persecution, but I digress.

If there was a person I could trust to talk about my suicidal thoughts who isn't going to freak out and call the cops because of this zero-tolerance approach, I might actually not want to die someday.

I am totally with you on this. I agree that there are people out there who just simply wish to be understood, validated, and be able to be 100% honest without fear of repercussions (similar to that of like an attorney-client privilege - not the best example but still). While it won't solve all problems, it would at least ease some suffering, that much is guaranteed.

They tell me all the time that I can't change other people, that I can't control what other people do, and that I should let go of that. But suicide is the exception. They are logically inconsistent and it has the opposite of effect of what they are trying to accomplish.

Indeed. I can see their incongruity and logical inconsistency when it comes to those things, it's almost as if they are intentionally being dumb, being illogical, and just plain stupid. It's sad that they are willing to go to such great lengths to justify their actions of pushing life to everyone and everything, regardless of circumstances. It's maddening and sickening, and there is no logic, it's just basically them making up rules and applying them as they please, which is also another reason I resent MHP's and people of that sort, especially pro-lifers/forced-lifers. I digress though.

Anyways, overall, I'm sorry to hear about your woes with mental health professionals and therapy in general. I agree with you that the system is flawed and even challenging and/or questioning them is considered an illness, wrong, disorder in and of itself, which stifles any meaningful check and balance against such a oppressive, biased system. Basically what is needed is a watchdog group that oversees this industry and it's practices, but sadly that doesn't exist thus it allows these people to get away with a lot of things and even getting justice is at best (for most people) just a pipe dream.

One final point I'd like to make is the paradox of getting help. In order to get help one must be ill and have to be honest (while risking the consequences such as being detained or locked up against one's will for being 100% honest and frank), yet at the same time, if one isn't completely honest (100% of the time), then he/she can't be really helped (not that a therapist has solutions for practical, day to day problems, or even the deeper problems (existential, situational, philosophical - unless they also have life experiences and/or are a life coach which most aren't). Therefore, people cannot really get help without risking negative consequences (being locked up against one's will, treated horribly and then left with crippling medical/hospital bills). I hope that makes sense.

 

[rebelsue]

One final point I'd like to make is the paradox of getting help. In order to get help one must be ill and have to be honest (while risking the consequences such as being detained or locked up against one's will for being 100% honest and frank), yet at the same time, if one isn't completely honest (100% of the time), then he/she can't be really helped (not that a therapist has solutions for practical, day to day problems, or even the deeper problems (existential, situational, philosophical - unless they also have life experiences and/or are a life coach which most aren't). Therefore, people cannot really get help without risking negative consequences (being locked up against one's will, treated horribly and then left with crippling medical/hospital bills). I hope that makes sense.

That Absolutely makes sense. I have said that before, a lot. Nobody in the MHP world gets it. I have given up trying to explain it. Their eyes glaze over and they get into that panicky state of "but someone might...DIE...:::gasp gasp gasp:::" and then you know you can't explain yourself. Yes, someone might die. People fucking die all the time. That's what THEY tell ME whenever my anxiety attacks start convincing me that everyone I love will die in an accident. They tell me that I have to learn to accept that death will happen and that it is part of life. Except suicide. Suicide is ... different somehow.

What I REALLY think it is ... is not a genuine care and concern about patients. it is a genuine care and concern about lawsuits and their own personal guilt. Families have sued therapists when someone commits suicide. It can objectively really fuck up your day job. It has happened often enough that a zero-tolerance policy has been adopted by MHPs across the civilized world. Because of LAWYERS. Therapists are practicing CYA. Cover Your Ass.

 

[TAW122]

That Absolutely makes sense. I have said that before, a lot. Nobody in the MHP world gets it. I have given up trying to explain it. Their eyes glaze over and they get into that panicky state of "but someone might...DIE...:::gasp gasp gasp:::" and then you know you can't explain yourself. Yes, someone might die. People fucking die all the time. That's what THEY tell ME whenever my anxiety attacks start convincing me that everyone I love will die in an accident. They tell me that I have to learn to accept that death will happen and that it is part of life. Except suicide. Suicide is ... different somehow.

What I REALLY think it is ... is not a genuine care and concern about patients. it is a genuine care and concern about lawsuits and their own personal guilt. Families have sued therapists when someone commits suicide. It can objectively really fuck up your day job. It has happened often enough that a zero-tolerance policy has been adopted by MHPs across the civilized world. Because of LAWYERS. Therapists are practicing CYA. Cover Your Ass.

Yeah the MHP's are generally (not all) no help to people like us. We have already decided and know that CTB is an option for us and since we arrived at this conclusion, pretty much what they say is no use to us at all because like you said, we already made up our minds and accepted our reality. All they are mostly good for is (which is another point altogether) to re-indoctrinate someone to the hive mindset (pro-life, stay alive and contribute to society, be like everyone else), in other words it's like taking a mine cart and putting the cart back on the tracks (wage-slaving, pro-life worshipping and more).

Anyways, for your 2nd paragraph, yes this is absolutely spot on. I think most of them care about CYA'ing themselves more than a genuine care and concern about patients (despite what people say or believe). While there are some that genuinely care about patients those are far and few, a gem in tens of thousands of professionals. I can understand CYA more of a reason for having a zero-tolerance policy on CTB topics, ideation, or even mentionings because it makes sense to protect oneself's profession, livelihood, and even in some cases freedom/liberty (mandated reporters are required by law to report otherwise they face potential criminal liability from the state). However, the other reason which is selfishness such as guilt tripping and shaming the patient by using the emotional line of logic "I would be sad if you went (and CTB'd) so I must intervene" is just inexcusable because it is not a requirement or to protect themselves (MHP's) from liability, legal action, legal consequences, but rather their own self-serving interest at the cost of the patient's interests.

 

[FusRohDracarys]

I agree with that, with one caveat : only attractive people should be allowed to breed.

hehe while that sounds nice in theory, I suspect that would result in some serious inbreeding and genetic disorders sooner or later. Diversity is important for maintaining a healthy gene pool, and while we may be predisposed to find some traits attractive that also indicate good health, the mainstream concept of "attractive" might be too narrow to really allow for a healthy, resilient population in the long term.

 

[TAW122]

@FusRohDracarys Yes, that's another good point that I didn't immediately notice. From the biological perspective, having a limited gene pool would result in genetic problems down the line and other health issues.

@rebelsue Good point as well and while their problem is the opposite problem of unattractive people (too much attention and oftenly in the wrong areas for the wrong reasons), it is still equally damaging as well. In the last paragraph with the last point, absolutely agreed with you. I believe it is also a big reason to why I am an misanthrope (not to individuals but the human race in general). Humans are selfish, competitive, and even hierarchical (social dominance, classes, ranks, etc.) by nature and yes, if there is no underclass then the next level above it would be the new low, the new underclass, and so forth. Standards will keep rising and the current average may become the new low, the current highest will become 2nd rate, etc.

 

[rebelsue]

@FusRohDracarys Yes, that's another good point that I didn't immediately notice. From the biological perspective, having a limited gene pool would result in genetic problems down the line and other health issues.

]

Yep we see this with pets and farm animals. The ones bred for looks often have weird personalities and/or health issues.

@rebelsue Good point as well and while their problem is the opposite problem of unattractive people (too much attention and oftenly in the wrong areas for the wrong reasons), it is still equally damaging as well. In the last paragraph with the last point, absolutely agreed with you. I believe it is also a big reason to why I am an misanthrope (not to individuals but the human race in general). Humans are selfish, competitive, and even hierarchical (social dominance, classes, ranks, etc.) by nature and yes, if there is no underclass then the next level above it would be the new low, the new underclass, and so forth. Standards will keep rising and the current average may become the new low, the current highest will become 2nd rate, etc.

It sucks, man. it really sucks. It's not even like you can be mad at people for this. it's just how we are. The ones who try to go against this instinct end up on the bottom a lot, too. Not always, but often.

The problems described above for attractive people is why Los Angeles, CA sucks so much. It's full of beautiful narcissists with self esteem issues. A Youtuber that I follow who lives in that entertainment scene and suffers from an eating disorder herself says that the drugstores in LA are often sold out of laxatives because of how many people who use them to purge. Being a human being is just awful. I am happy that CTB is an option even if underground...having the right to say "No thank you" to being a human should totally be a thing...it's something that we cannot control in any other way.

 

[esben350]

That was a great video. I agree with him

 

[Pryras]

I agree with this guy, too, for the most part. I just have so much doubt that humanity will ever make this legal and available. That survival instinct is strong as fuck. That's why we have overpopulated the planet. I would be more willing to believe that we'd legalize heroin before legalizing physician assisted suicide for all. It's just way too biologically rooted.

One thing that is SO ANGERING about the prevention movement is that you cannot be heard if you are honest about how you feel. My therapist who is otherwise a pretty good due basically told me, "as soon as you say the word suicide I can't hear anything else you're saying. All my attention has to go toward preventing your suicide." It's context independent. We can't actually even talk about these feelings openly for the purpose not feeling them anymore. We can't work through them because of the incredibly strong drive to save all lives at all costs no matter what. My therapist doesn't care the reason. If my husband divorced me, after 10 years of convincing me that it was safe to depend on him financially, I'd be in a homeless shelter. I might get raped or murdered as a young woman in a shelter. I don't deserve that. I don't deserve to go out like that but that is what would happen. And I'm supposed to not feel like killing myself over that? I'd honestly wonder about a person who DIDN'T feel like dying over that.

My therapist accused me of creating a hostage situation by saying what I needed in order to not kill myself. It's absurd what the prevention movement does to the mental health providers...these are the people who we trust...and I can't trust them. They think my life matters more than I do, in a way. It's like earning body points in a swim meet. Maybe people think we'll win life the more of us there are.

The fear of a lost life actually prevents first responders from actually being able to save lives, honestly. If there was a person I could trust to talk about my suicidal thoughts who isn't going to freak out and call the cops because of this zero-tolerance approach, I might actually not want to die someday. That person would have to be comfortable with the possibility that I will kill myself anyway, but the zero-tolerance approach prevents them from being comfortable with that. For letting other people be other people. They tell me all the time that I can't change other people, that I can't control what other people do, and that I should let go of that. But suicide is the exception. They are logically inconsistent and it has the opposite of effect of what they are trying to accomplish.

They all think we're nuts. The prevention movement thinks we're all just depressed weirdos who don't understand that every life is special and every life should be saved no matter what. They think we are the ones doing it wrong. They are wrong. Their pollyanna bullshit is philosophically inconsistent.

I agree and the last paragraph nails it. The preventive movement just thinks we're all mentally ill and nuts for even thinking of suicide. I am not depressed, I am hurting and scared.

 

[ARW3N]

I agree. Everything would be much simpler and easier for me if I had access to Nembutal or cyanide which I don't. I've tried everything from a paracetamol overdose to squeezing the natural cyanides from apple pips. They were serious suicide attempts. Unfortunately, it just wasn't enough to kill me.