a former pastor's response to a suicide question

[Crazy4u]

The question: What is a household item that you could kill yourself with painlessly?

I will post some of his relevant responses to the question. There are multiple responses because many people argued with him.

 

[BRuss]

What a sanctimonious prick.

 

[Of The Universe]

He defines CTBers as "attention seekers!" What a joke. He is mean and contemptuous.

 

[Samsal112]

This is the problem with religion and Christianity in particular. Religion sells the idea that you deserve nothing and you're lucky you aren't worse off because you're sinner deserving of death. Yes, I do believe I am entitled to a good life. I don't think that is selfish to feel that way. I think we should all feel that way. Christianity thrives on the belief that we aren't deserving; it doesn't humble a person, it makes you feel lowly and powerless without this "god." I love myself as should you all, and I believe that I am entitled to a good life, and if I can't get that, then I have the right to a death of my choosing. But, I do agree with him that maybe we need to stop thinking of a painless death. I think that is what stops so many of us from actually ctb. Maybe instead of a painless death, we need to look at an assured death.

 

[LoneMisery]

Religion is just another business. Just like the government that tries to keep you alive.

 

[CommitSudoku]

Stuff like this just feeds my self-hatred.

 

[NotStrongEnough]

There is no philosophy to killing yourself. Yes, the people left behind will hurt, and I don't think most people can truly argue that. However, I AM entitled to do literally anything I want with my life, and NO ONE ELSE is entitled to tell me what I can do with it. I don't care about your religion because your religion means nothing to me. There is no god who tells me what to do - we came from the primordial void and we'll eventually return to it.

"every person has a purpose for living" - no they don't. There is no purpose to living, there is no purpose to suffering. Anyone who tries to tell themselves otherwise is fooling themselves, deluding themselves to make them feel better about trying to push forward. If you have the will and the gumption to move forward, by all means! But that's not the right thing for everyone.

And if mr pastor doesn't like it, that's too bad. His opinion means jack snot.

 

[Somber]

What the Confused Priest doesn't seem to understand is that many people that commit suicide don't advertise their intentions to the world. I've never told anyone about my desire to die, except for the lot on this forum, and I don't intend to do so because I know there is a good chance that my confidant would end up being the Confused Priest type of person which might hinder my chances at successfully carrying out my suicide.
How, pray, tell am I seeking attention if I refuse to even raise the subject?

By preaching this sanctimonious idea that people that call hotlines are merely seeking attention he is essentially discouraging potential suicide candidates from making that call in the first place. I never called any such hotlines because I knew they would never provide me with any actual assistance with suicide, they would only try to talk me out of it, wasting both of our time, but for some people that are on the fence such hotlines might prove life saving opportunities. I can only imagine the number of people that ended up calling a hotline manned by our Confused Priest only to be reduced to a selfish attention seeker, instead of a human being calling out for help, leaving them more likely to carry out their plans, not less so.

As a silver lining, I do need to emphasize that he is right in the sense that some people that don't see any other way out of their problems but suicide, do have options that they haven't sufficiently explored.

As for his religious motivations, they are only relevant to fans of the bible, a book written in a different time for a different audience.
To quote from a more recent work: "The Truth, it is a beautiful and terrible thing and should therefore be treated with great caution" Albus Dumbledore

 

[demuic]

"There is meaning in suffering." There is no meaning to suffering. Many times it is just a rationalization after the fact to make someone feel better about enduring pain. There is no point to suffering needlessly. The worst of suffering will only give you trauma or disable you in some way.

"The person contemplating suicide is only concerned about making things easy for themselves with no consideration of what their death will do to those that love them." The biggest load of shit ever. In so many cases the consideration of what their death will do is what stops people from committing suicide in the first place, but eventually the pain becomes too much. Why is it always someone else's pain that's more important? By the same logic you could say, "The person trying to stop someone from committing suicide is only concerned about making things easy for themselves with no consideration of what a continued existence will do to the one they love."

This is the problem with religion and Christianity in particular. Religion sells the idea that you deserve nothing and you're lucky you aren't worse off because you're sinner deserving of death. Yes, I do believe I am entitled to a good life. I don't think that is selfish to feel that way. I think we should all feel that way. Christianity thrives on the belief that we aren't deserving; it doesn't humble a person, it makes you feel lowly and powerless without this "god." I love myself as should you all, and I believe that I am entitled to a good life, and if I can't get that, then I have the right to a death of my choosing.

You've said it perfectly.

 

[Crazy4u]

Here are my responses to some points. For the record, I'm a woman who believes in God but I'm not religious and not Christian.

His comment: how do you justify being deserving of a painless death
My response: because the suicidal person has suffered a lot and deserves a peaceful death. Animals receive peaceful death and so should humans. The suffering of other people is irrelevant. Those people chose to be alive

His comment: there is no such thing as a painless suicide because the irrational act heaps pain and guilt on the survivors often for decades
My response: not true. There are many painless methods. The act is perfectly rational because life is full of suffering. It is irrational to stay alive despite all the suffering.

His comment: if they really believe people are going to give them ideas to kill themselves on Quora, they AREN'T ONLY depressed, their rational thinking process is impaired.
My response: guess what? there are plenty of people on Quora giving ideas for peaceful death. None of them have irrational thinking process. Many suicidal people died by suicide for very logical reasons.

His comment: Every person has a purpose and reason for living. There is meaning in suffering. Consider the possibility at least that what state they pass into after death is more torturous than they are living and want to escape.
My response: Most people have a purpose and reason for living. The purpose is temporary. Other people don't have a purpose and can't find a reason mainly because of their pain. I believe in hell. If I'm going to hell anyway, I can just expedite the process. Why suffer in life and in hell?!

His comment: A better way is to ask what they need to do to improve their situation. I don't buy into the idea "There is nothing I can do except kill myself."
My response: clueless, entitled, and privileged. I bet he won't be able to find solutions if he was in severe pain himself. People die by suicide for very serious reasons most of the time.

His comment: The person contemplating suicide is only concerned about making things easy for themselves with no consideration of what their death will do to those that love them.
My response: clueless! many suicidal people apologize a lot in their suicide notes and delay their suicide because their care about the feelings of others. The loved ones are only concerned about themselves and they don't care for the suffering of the suicidal person.

 

[Lostkitten1]

Another soul who knows nothing of standing on the edge, staring into the abyss. I keep saying this, until someone's actually truly considered suicide as a rational option, they have no idea what it's like. And some of us who have taken the journey to whatever comes next have done so in the most painful ways because that was their only option. Nobody should have to, but some have no other choice. Sadly this kind of opposition only pushes away the people who might need the support, and unites those who are lucky enough to never need it. That leaves us as the sanctuary for those who are standing on the edge and those who have been there before.

 

[Crazy4u]

What the Confused Priest doesn't seem to understand is that many people that commit suicide don't advertise their intentions to the world. I've never told anyone about my desire to die, except for the lot on this forum, and I don't intend to do so because I know there is a good chance that my confidant would end up being the Confused Priest type of person which might hinder my chances at successfully carrying out my suicide.
How, pray, tell am I seeking attention if I refuse to even raise the subject?

By preaching this sanctimonious idea that people that call hotlines are merely seeking attention he is essentially discouraging potential suicide candidates from making that call in the first place. I never called any such hotlines because I knew they would never provide me with any actual assistance with suicide, they would only try to talk me out of it, wasting both of our time, but for some people that are on the fence such hotlines might prove life saving opportunities. I can only imagine the number of people that ended up calling a hotline manned by our Confused Priest only to be reduced to a selfish attention seeker, instead of a human being calling out for help, leaving them more likely to carry out their plans, not less so.

As a silver lining, I do need to emphasize that he is right in the sense that some people that don't see any other way out of their problems but suicide, do have options that they haven't sufficiently explored.

As for his religious motivations, they are only relevant to fans of the bible, a book written in a different time for a different audience.
To quote from a more recent work: "The Truth, it is a beautiful and terrible thing and should therefore be treated with great caution" Albus Dumbledore

Yup. I'm the same way. Honestly, I would feel so uncomfortable if someone thought I am seeking attention. No one other than SS members know about my ctb plans and thoughts. That is why the suicide lines are useless. There is no empathy.

I agree, some problems can be resolved but many problems have no solutions.

"There is meaning in suffering." There is no meaning to suffering. Many times it is just a rationalization after the fact to make someone feel better about enduring pain. There is no point to suffering needlessly. The worst of suffering will only give you trauma or disable you in some way.

"The person contemplating suicide is only concerned about making things easy for themselves with no consideration of what their death will do to those that love them." The biggest load of shit ever. In so many cases the consideration of what their death will do is what stops people from committing suicide in the first place, but eventually the pain becomes too much. Why is it always someone else's pain that's more important? By the same logic you could say, "The person trying to stop someone from committing suicide is only concerned about making things easy for themselves with no consideration of what a continued existence will do to the one they love."


You've said it perfectly.

Exactly. The idea that people need to stay alive until they naturally die is crazy. I would never wish for anyone to live in pain. CTB is the only solution for many people and many problems

Another soul who knows nothing of standing on the edge, staring into the abyss. I keep saying this, until someone's actually truly considered suicide as a rational option, they have no idea what it's like. And some of us who have taken the journey to whatever comes next have done so in the most painful ways because that was their only option. Nobody should have to, but some have no other choice. Sadly this kind of opposition only pushes away the people who might need the support, and unites those who are lucky enough to never need it. That leaves us as the sanctuary for those who are standing on the edge and those who have been there before.

I agree. The suicide hotlines can help people if they stop stigmatizing suicide and try to understand suicidal people. There are many people who ctb and don't have severe mental or chronic illness. Poverty is one of the main reasons for ctb in poor countries. That is just one example.

 

[waitingforrest]

I usually like to read controversial takes but I couldn't even get past the first paragraph.

To qoute, "why not as painfully as possible?". What, what the heck.

In what world would any rational person say that as a argument? Even a "just kill yourself then if you really want to ctb" or other canned statements would be even better than that in my opinion. At least it doesn't imply that the suicidal person deserves a painful death, wtf.
Actually, anything else would be better than their "words of wisdom".

And just because other people also suffering in pain does not mean the suicidal person should also have to suffer as well in a painful death. As I have said many times, it is no competition to see who's pain is worse.

As a pastor, shouldn't they be trying to not wish more pain on others and not try to spread it further? By saying such insensitive s**t, the have probably caused even more pain.

I'm just going to try to forget I ever read their "argument". I don't think I should even waste any of my remaining braincells on reading what that pastor has to say.

 

[Crazy4u]

I usually like to read controversial takes but I couldn't even get past the first paragraph.

To qoute, "why not as painfully as possible?". What, what the heck.

In what world would any rational person say that as a argument? Even a "just kill yourself then if you really want to ctb" or other canned statements would be even better than that in my opinion. At least it doesn't imply that the suicidal person deserves a painful death, wtf.
Actually, anything else would be better than their "words of wisdom".

And just because other people also suffering in pain does not mean the suicidal person should also have to suffer as well in a painful death. As I have said many times, it is no competition to see who's pain is worse.

As a pastor, shouldn't they be trying to not wish more pain on others and not try to spread it further? By saying such insensitive s**t, the have probably caused even more pain.

I'm just going to try to forget I ever read their "argument". I don't think I should even waste any of my remaining braincells on reading what that pastor has to say.

The first paragraph is what made me read the entire arguments and share them here. He considers himself rational and the suicidal people as irrational. What is rational about why not as painfully as possible?! people like him are supposed to kind and I think there are kind pastors.

I agree. I hate it so much when people say others have it worse. I hear this irl and here in SS. It is not a competition. I'm sorry if the OP was triggering. I don't know how to add NSFW.

 

[waitingforrest]

The first paragraph is what made me read the entire arguments and share them here. He considers himself rational and the suicidal people as irrational. What is rational about why not as painfully as possible?! people like him are supposed to kind and I think there are kind pastors.

I agree. I hate it so much when people say others have it worse. I hear this irl and here in SS. It is not a competition. I'm sorry if the OP was triggering. I don't know how to add NSFW.

No need to be sorry. It's still good to know that there really are actually people that exist like that out there. That way, we all can try to avoid opening up to people like that.

I think we should really be feeling sorry for the original asker instead, I would feel so upset if I got a response from someone like K.

Again, just for the record, I clicked on this knowing that I was going to be a hell of a ride, and got what I expected. Don't feel bad if I get a bit upset, if anything K should be sorry. You did a good thing on spreading awareness on people like K.

 

[Passersby]

I'll tell you whats entitled and privileged is the attitude of this pastor who clearly doesn't understand suffering. These types of responses are a dime a dozen. You know what would really blow his mind? It is the fact that I have a right to die as much as I have a right to live and if i choose to kill myself for no reason at all only to see what's on the other side it is still my right. He would really get a kick out of that one. .

I talked to a psychologist a few years back who was a former paster and I knew I shouldn't have done it but I did anyway. It was basically a very similar response. Minimizing my suffering and telling me that it all had meaning and was actually good. Gods plan etc. All kinds of people suffering from all kinds of different things and that it was wrong to kill yourself for any reason. They love to point out a situation that is worse and try to compare it to yours. It's like look here mate this person has it real bad, worse than you and they are not going to kill themselves. This person wrote a book and blah blah blah while they were in some kind of worse situation. Thats great for them and if they want to live and suffer its there right just like its mine to die. That is what I said.

He proceeded to tell me I was going to hell if I did that and I would be tortured in an unimaginable place. How do you even respond to that? If that is true them it means that the universe is run by a dictator type of God who doesn't care about suffering since someone has to put you in this place. I guess I would have to go there then. I hope not. What could I do about that right? Basically one day I wake up in a life that I never had any say about and am told to live a certain way and do all these things and if I dont or even i I do I am likely still going to a torture pit.

 

[watchingthewheels]

Thats's sadistic. As Neil Peart wrote in "BU2B (Brought Up To Believe") for the final Rush album,
"All is for the best
Believe in what we're told
Blind men in the market
Buying what we're sold
Believe in what we're told
Until our final breath
While our loving Watchmaker
Loves us all to death"

 

[D&D]

I try not to use angry words, but in this instance, there really is only one word that comes instantly to mind - an idiot!

While self-righteous idiots of this kind could be found in every profession, there are three areas where this is particularly dangerous - teaching (working with young minds), healing (working with sick and impaired) and clergy of all stripes (working with people souls - for the lack of better word). If you don't have compassion, empathy and kindness - you should not; you must not be allowed to enter those professions.

Although I do not belong to any organised religion, even I know plenty of clergies, including Catholics, who do not share those views. But they are far more intelligent, knowledgeable and understanding than this moron.

 

[Gsvko]

Guys, he is trained, you can all sht up. Astute too.
I especially agree with the part where he says you should love others first. You've been so unloved or hurt in life that there is none of it left even for you, let alone to hand out? Nah. Like you're literally starving for love? Fck you, fcking pretend. Look, there's a bird. How can I give something I don't have bish.
I'm gonna go upvote this and then find a spoon.
If there was hell, that's exactly where I'd want to go. Don't put me with these people.

 

[darkwater]

If you are still a Christian in the 21st century you are just an idiot. That may sound harsh to Americans, but I am European.

 

[GentleJerk]

While the OP can always expect this sort of reply when asking these questions in a place like Quora, there is so much wrong with this on so many levels, I won't even begin to go through how absurd some of this man's arguments are.

Seems like nothing more than poorly disguised self-righteous hatred to me. Such obvious bigotry, narrow-mindedness, fanaticism, intolerance, prejudice... I feel sorry for the suicidal people that have tried calling a hotline for help, only to be met with this blowhard.

The fact that this type of person often easily finds a safe haven within religion, always irks me.

 

[Ta555]

Hi stranger, I've never really suffered terribly but I know God has a plan for you. God never said it would be easy and everyone goes through tough times. Look at all these other people in terrible circumstances who keep going because they trust in God. I personally wouldn't know anything about that but I have no problem telling other people how to live their life because I believe in a make believe book and also the big man in the sky talks to me personally so I feel like it is my god given right to tell people how to live their lives. Also I used to wear a pretty nifty collar. But I digress...anyway, back to your problems. God would never give you more than you can carry. Peace.

 

[DeadMemes]

"If god is just"
Open your eyes mate. If God is just, then God will let me end my suffering. Climb out from under your rock and actually face the depravity of the world, rather than hiding from it behind platitudes and prayer.

You're full of shit Keith.

 

[Ta555]

"If god is just"
Open your eyes mate. If God is just, then God will let me end my suffering. Climb out from under your rock and actually face the depravity of the world, rather than hiding from it behind platitudes and prayer.

You're full of shit Keith.

It's always fucking Keith. Fuck Keith.

 

[eryu]

This isn't about judging your or anyone else.

He sounds very angry and disdainful and he's talking about it within the context of his religion, where it is one of the very worst sins and God will definitely judge you for it.
Such a ridiculous and disingenuous thing to say.
His takes on why people are suicidal are very generalized, glib, condescending (and extremely judgmental).

 

[DeadMemes]

He sounds very angry and disdainful and he's talking about it within the context of his religion, where it is one of the very worst sins and God will definitely judge you for it.
Such a ridiculous and disingenuous thing to say.
His takes on why people are suicidal are very generalized, glib, condescending (and extremely judgmental).

He also makes a few assumptions that are blatantly wrong, such as that we're attention seeking and that we're only thinking about ourselves, not those we're leaving behind. Oh, and the big one which is that God exists in the first place. Disingenuous indeed.

 

[NotStrongEnough]

He also makes a few assumptions that are blatantly wrong, such as that we're attention seeking and that we're only thinking about ourselves, not those we're leaving behind. Oh, and the big one which is that God exists in the first place. Disingenuous indeed.

I love this attention getting excuse. No one outside the internet knows I want to CTB. I specifically avoid it so I don't get called attention seeking.

 

[Crazy4u]

I'll tell you whats entitled and privileged is the attitude of this pastor who clearly doesn't understand suffering. These types of responses are a dime a dozen. You know what would really blow his mind? It is the fact that I have a right to die as much as I have a right to live and if i choose to kill myself for no reason at all only to see what's on the other side it is still my right. He would really get a kick out of that one. .

I talked to a psychologist a few years back who was a former paster and I knew I shouldn't have done it but I did anyway. It was basically a very similar response. Minimizing my suffering and telling me that it all had meaning and was actually good. Gods plan etc. All kinds of people suffering from all kinds of different things and that it was wrong to kill yourself for any reason. They love to point out a situation that is worse and try to compare it to yours. It's like look here mate this person has it real bad, worse than you and they are not going to kill themselves. This person wrote a book and blah blah blah while they were in some kind of worse situation. Thats great for them and if they want to live and suffer its there right just like its mine to die. That is what I said.

He proceeded to tell me I was going to hell if I did that and I would be tortured in an unimaginable place. How do you even respond to that? If that is true them it means that the universe is run by a dictator type of God who doesn't care about suffering since someone has to put you in this place. I guess I would have to go there then. I hope not. What could I do about that right? Basically one day I wake up in a life that I never had any say about and am told to live a certain way and do all these things and if I dont or even i I do I am likely still going to a torture pit.

you are brave. I would never talk to a pastor or a psychologist lol. I can't stand weird arguments.

The funny thing is they don't try to show the positive side. You think we should live? show us why life is so valuable. Show us we will go to heaven if we don't ctb.

Guilt tripping and fear mongering is a stupid strategy