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toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
I'm one of the people who want to chose the gun (shotgun) route to CTB. But after reading this, it leave me a worry due to I sure don't want to end up like them.


Just want to share and to those who chose the gun route.

any takers after reading the links? Perhaps I should take a shotgun class first so I can aim correctly to make sure I will be dead, I sure don't want to live like those 10 people for the rest of my life.

eta: and this is the beautiful 18 year olds girl who use a hunting rifle, she didn't die, but sure lost her whole face.


worth a read.

 
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gingerplum

gingerplum

Enlightened
Nov 5, 2018
1,450
I'm one of the people who want to chose the gun (shotgun) route to CTB. But after reading this, it leave me a worry due to I sure don't want to end up like them.


Just want to share and to those who chose the gun route.

any takers after reading the links? Perhaps I should take a shotgun class first so I can aim correctly to make sure I will be dead, I sure don't want to live like those 10 people for the rest of my life.
Holy crap. The guy who played George's boss on Seinfeld?!? Whoa.

I remember a patient in a neuro ICU that managed to survive a self-inflicted gun shot wound, but permanently blinded himself by shooting clean thru his optic nerve. Doesn't get much worse than that.

IMO, the most important thing is to aim for the brainstem via an open mouth. Much cleaner and more accurate than blasting your face or skull off.

"... a bullet that that damages the spinal column where it meets the base of the skull (base of the head at the back) tends to be quickly fatal, and this is most likely achieved by aiming slightly down through the mouth, or else simply pointing the gun at the rear base of the head. [Stone] speculates that aiming here, with a high energy bullet/shell is the most reliably fatal combination. However, using a shotgun to the temples or through the mouth is likely to be even more effective, using one hand to hold the shotgun in place and the other to pull the trigger."

 
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toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
eta: and this is the beautiful 18 year olds girl who use a hunting rifle shot at her chin, she didn't die, but sure lost her whole face.


worth a read.

Now I'm iffy about use a gun, perhaps I should stick with my original plan, jump off a 1,000 feet (300 meters) tourist bridge. Yeah, let hope no tourist see me and pull me back. That my main worry about ctb jumping.

I know the whole point is about mouth and brain stem, but with someone who never use a gun before, it going to be hard to aim at the correct spot (brain stem).



and shoot at the mouth doesn't guarantee neither, as I found this in Quora:

quote: [[
Healthcare at New York (2011-present)

WARNING GRAPHIC: There was a man in an area I used to work as an EMT, years ago, who shot himself with a shotgun, barrel into his mouth at an angle that SHOULD HAVE blown his entire head off…. Somehow it didn't really touch the brain. Everything from his forehead down to his lower jaw were missing, except for part of his tongue. He was breathing, tongue moving around violently, and I bet if he had a mouth that could help form human sounds for him, he would have been screaming in pain. If I remember correctly, he did somehow still have one eye left. He got sedated and intubated, transported to a trauma center, and survived. He needed complete facial reconstruction and years of surgery. I believe he ultimately succeeded in committing suicide several years later. He was very much aware of what happened following pulling that trigger. ]] end quote
 
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gingerplum

gingerplum

Enlightened
Nov 5, 2018
1,450
eta: and this is the beautiful 18 year olds girl who use a hunting rifle shot at her chin, she didn't die, but sure lost her whole face.


worth a read.

Now I'm iffy about use a gun, perhaps I should stick with my original plan, jump off a 1,000 feet (300 meters) tourist bridge. Yeah, let hope no tourist see me and pull me back. That my main worry about ctb jumping.

I know the whole point is about mouth and brain stem, but with someone who never use a gun before, it going to be hard to aim at the correct spot (brain stem).



and shoot at the mouth doesn't guarantee neither, as I found this in Quora:

quote: [[
Healthcare at New York (2011-present)

WARNING GRAPHIC: There was a man in an area I used to work as an EMT, years ago, who shot himself with a shotgun, barrel into his mouth at an angle that SHOULD HAVE blown his entire head off…. Somehow it didn't really touch the brain. Everything from his forehead down to his lower jaw were missing, except for part of his tongue. He was breathing, tongue moving around violently, and I bet if he had a mouth that could help form human sounds for him, he would have been screaming in pain. If I remember correctly, he did somehow still have one eye left. He got sedated and intubated, transported to a trauma center, and survived. He needed complete facial reconstruction and years of surgery. I believe he ultimately succeeded in committing suicide several years later. He was very much aware of what happened following pulling that trigger. ]] end quote
Aaaand that's enough for me to completely and forever rule out a self-inflicted gun shot wound. That's one of the most horrific things I've ever read.
 
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toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
Yeah, the whole point is die, but if we somehow miracle survive (like that beautiful girl), I bet it even worser than our current situation right now. And that youtube video of her face transplant, omg.

Let hope I find a way to throw myself off a 1,000 feet bridge without any tourist pull me back. I think free fall down a 1,000 feet bridge hit concrete sound more safe than this. All the people who jump off that bridge, rather their body still hasn't found, or found smash and all dead. So yeah, no miracle on that bridge. I need to think of a careful plan to ctb there as there people tourist there.
 
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BridgeJumper

BridgeJumper

The Arsonist
Apr 7, 2019
1,194
Holy shit. Makes me glad I chose hanging :o
 
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RememberWhatUCameFor

RememberWhatUCameFor

dont cry for me im already dead
Nov 20, 2018
590
Aaaand that's enough for me to completely and forever rule out a self-inflicted gun shot wound. That's one of the most horrific things I've ever read.

the only method that dont have the possibility of long term damage in case of failure (=survival) is nembutal
Holy shit. Makes me glad I chose hanging :o


you can end up brain damaged, blinded etc
 
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BridgeJumper

BridgeJumper

The Arsonist
Apr 7, 2019
1,194
Haha.
I gave up on jumping. Im too scared to actually jump off the 40 meter bridge I chose, all I can do is dangle my legs off it.
Whereas I already almost suceeded in hanging but I got shitty rope and it broke on me
Anyway, poor folks. If that was me Id campaign for euthanasia :(
 
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gingerplum

gingerplum

Enlightened
Nov 5, 2018
1,450
Yeah, the whole point is die, but if we somehow miracle survive (like that beautiful girl), I bet it even worser than our current situation right now. And that youtube video of her face transplant, omg.

Let hope I find a way to throw myself off a 1,000 feet bridge without any tourist pull me back. I think free fall down a 1,000 feet bridge hit concrete sound more safe than this. All the people who jump off that bridge, rather their body still hasn't found, or found smash and all dead. So yeah, no miracle on that bridge. I need to think of a careful plan to ctb there as there people tourist there.
Now, had I been a first responder, I would've medicated that guy and suffocated him. I would lie about response time, or do anything within my power to put him out of his misery. If my peers that I was working with disagreed, I would walk and resign if necessary. I'm sure all the pro-lifers would tell me I've no business "playing God," but there's no way I could live with myself doing anything to prolong that man's life. Fuck any god that would allow such a travesty.
 
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toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
So @
BridgeJumper1994

this is my bridge
1,000 feet (300 meters) clearance below. For sure it guarantee dead, as nobody jump and survive that bridge. Any advice on how can I able to jump off this bridge without any tourist pull me back? It a tourist bridge, so there are security and people around.

Isn't it (pic below) a beauty? tbh, I rather burried under that bridge, than survive a gunshot. Those gunshot survival stories make me doubt the gunshot method now.

And if I somehow survive this bridge, I be all over the news for miracle then. I doubt if I can survive this bridge if I manage to succeded jump.

Bridge-2-fe66119c-c48b-aff8-322a2fafe169749b.jpg
 
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Elias

Experienced
Mar 19, 2019
216
What a beautiful place and a perfect bridge, my god.
 
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toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
What a beautiful place and a perfect bridge, my god.

Yes sir, guarantee dead if I succeed jump. Any advice on how can I jump when it a tourist bridge and there tourist people walking around?
Now, had I been a first responder, I would've medicated that guy and suffocated him. I would lie about response time, or do anything within my power to put him out of his misery. If my peers that I was working with disagreed, I would walk and resign if necessary. I'm sure all the pro-lifers would tell me I've no business "playing God," but there's no way I could live with myself doing anything to prolong that man's life. Fuck any god that would allow such a travesty.

Which story in that 10 survivals you talking about gingerplum? # which?

And like you, I think I probably rule out the gun route now. I don't know if it worth it for me to take that risk, dead is what I aim for, but then turn out like those 10 survivers UGHHH.
 
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spanishguy22

Enlightened
Apr 9, 2019
1,003
That's why I chose the heart. Bleeding out guaranteed with a shotgun and only a minute or two at most to pass out.
Head just seems scary.
 
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toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
That's why I chose the heart. Bleeding out guaranteed with a shotgun and only a minute or two at most to pass out.
Head just seems scary.

oh man, heart no guarantee neither, as if you miss the heart (if it go to the ribs), you will survive too. I have heard heart survival stories, where the bullet don't hit the heart.

I think my safest bet is still that 1,000 feet bridge. That if I manage to get down there without no tourist pull me back and then the cops throw me in a mental hospital for suicidal/self harm.
 
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spanishguy22

Enlightened
Apr 9, 2019
1,003
oh man, heart no guarantee neither, as if you miss the heart (if it go to the ribs), you will survive too. I have heard heart survival stories, where the bullet don't hit the heart.

I think my safest bet is still that 1,000 feet bridge. That if I manage to get down there without no tourist pull me back and then the cops throw me in a mental hospital for suicidal/self harm.

If I miss the heart Im pretty sure id bleed out either way. A 20 gauge shotgun shot is a huge wound that would cause insane bleeding no matter what so it would take some more minutes maybe but as long as youre alone itd be fine.

I Personally dont have the guts for jumping but most importantly it can be survived if youre very unlucky no matter the height
 
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toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
@spanishguy22
and to everyone else that talk about brainstem and heart.

I found this in Quora, and I think it worth a read. It more complicated than just bleed out from the heart.


quote [[[ Emergency Physician

Originally Answered: What will bring instant death, shooting in a heart or head?

Reposting my answer to a similar question:
Three ways to kill someone (which are certainly interrelated): take out their nervous system, take out their circulation, or take out their breathing.
Quickest way to go from alive and conscious to dead and done is to sever the brainstem, which acts as Grand Central Station for all nerve activity in the body - consciousness, breathing, heart rate, blood pressure, non-reflexive movements. The brainstem lies inside the skull, just above the junction with the neck. Feel that bony protrusion just behind your earlobe? Go from one side to the other, and you'll cross right through the brainstem. As you can imagine, not an easy spot to get to if you want to kill someone. I've read a few novels where someone has put a hunting knife right through the base of the skull to kill somone. I suppose it would work, but you'd have to have the person's neck flexed (chin to the chest) and still be very, very strong and accurate to get to that point. More commonly, this is done with a bullet. Even then, a small cal pistol or rifle has to be aimed pretty darn well in order to make this an instantaneous death. Precision is slightly less important if using special ammunition (e.g. hollow point bullets) or very powerful weapons (e.g. sniper rifles), where enough tissue is damaged as the bullet passes through the skull to injure the brainstem. Any of these methods would destroy the brainstem quickly enough that death would be essentially instantaneous. A gunshot wound elsewhere in the brain may cause death, but it will not be instantaneous.

A properly executed hanging breaks the neck just below the brainstem. This in turn causes rapid swelling of the spinal cord and disrupts blood flow and nerve signals in the brainstem, leading to death. May take a few seconds, but still considered a very swift death. However, hanging has gone out of favor as a form of capital punishment. Too short or too slow a drop and the victim dies by strangulation/suffocation, which can take 20 minutes or longer. Too fast or too long a drop and the victim gets decapitated. Does the job, but messy and unpleasant, even if you support capital punishment.

What's another way to take out the brainstem? Kill the cells by depriving them of oxygen and saturating them with carbon dioxide. This is where circulation and breathing come in.

Breathing is a quicker discussion: lungs help trade oxygen for CO2 in the blood. Since a killer/executioner can't stop that process directly, they instead would have to cut off the airway. Asphyxiation by hanging was just mentioned. Other methods would be similarly slow - choking, pillow over the face, etc. You could punch holes in the rib cage next to the lungs to disrupt the mechanics of breathing (this was done in Dan Brown's Angels and Demons - look up pneumothorax for the exact mechanics), but again it would be a slower death.

Now, for circulation. Blood gets pumped by the heart, so if you deprive the body of the blood or the pump, you won't nourish and cleanse the brainstem tissues and the brainstem will die. A stab wound to the heart won't directly cause it to stop beating. Instead, blood will leak through the puncture wound and fill the pericardium (a thin layer of tissue that surrounds the heart, but is separate from it). As blood fills the pericardium, it puts pressure on the outside of the heart such that blood coming in from the veins cannot enter the heart to be further circulated. The decrease in pump function happens incrementally, but certainly can get to the point where the heart no longer functions, blood no longer circulates, and the victim dies. A gunshot wound to the heart will also stop the pump from functioning, but along the same guidelines in terms of weapon power and caliber as previously discussed. A sniper's bullet or firing squad would cause such massive disruption of the circulation that death would come quickly, but lower impact trauma may not even lead to death.

Now, what about bleeding to death? The larger the vessel, the quicker you bleed out, so anything that damages the aorta or the very large branches of the aorta will most quickly lead to death. However, the aorta is well protected. It comes off the heart behind the breastbone and then passes behind the heart and runs next to the front part of the spine. It is more vulnerable to injury when it passes below the diaphragm into the abdomen, but by then it has already branched off multiple times, so it is carrying a smaller (though still significant) amount of blood. If a killer wanted to kill someone by blood loss, they would need to go for the carotid arteries in the neck, the axillary arteries in the armpits, the abdominal aorta, or the femoral arteries. The carotids would be most effective, so long as the killer cut both of them — the brain would be most rapidly deprived of its blood supply (and ability to get rid of CO2), causing the victim to pass out, and without immediate care, the brainstem will die.

]]] end quote.
 
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After The End

After The End

The lily whispers, “I wait.”
Jul 31, 2019
135
About 20,000 Americans successfully CTB with firearms every year. To dismiss the millions of people who have successfully CTB'd with firearms on the basis of a statistically insignificant handful of marginal cases involving miraculous survivals as a means of writing it off as a method seems rather silly. Of course there are risks. There are risks involved in any method. On the balance firearms are a perfectly practical method where they are cheap and readily available. In fact one of the most practical and effective methods period.

However, the aorta is well protected.

In the context of gunshot injuries no it isn't.
 
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gingerplum

gingerplum

Enlightened
Nov 5, 2018
1,450
About 20,000 Americans successfully CTB with firearms every year. To dismiss the millions of people who have successfully CTB'd with firearms on the basis of a statistically insignificant handful of marginal cases involving miraculous survivals as a means of writing it off as a method seems rather silly. Of course there are risks. There are risks involved in any method. On the balance firearms are a perfectly practical method where they are cheap and readily available. In fact one of the most practical and effective methods period.



In the context of gunshot injuries no it isn't.
Ok, that's fair. Rationally, I know you're right, and the percent of survivors is so small they're probably an anomaly; it's just the stories are SO horrific it makes me unreasonable with fear.
 
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After The End

After The End

The lily whispers, “I wait.”
Jul 31, 2019
135
Ok, that's fair. Rationally, I know you're right, and the percent of survivors is so small they're probably an anomaly; it's just the stories are SO horrific it makes me unreasonable with fear.

That's fair enough. I'm not suggesting anyone should use this method, or any other. Hell, I'd prefer nobody kill themselves (or at least not be put in a position where they feel it's the only option) but people are going to, and there are always going to be considerable risks involved. If only due to the fact that you might end up sanctioned or in legal trouble for being in possession of dangerous substances. I believe if a person is committed to a particular method, and determined to make it work, based on a sober assessment of the risks and how to ameliorate them, they're likely to succeed, and more so than if they feel railroaded into something else.

There is a lot of nonsense out there that more or less gives the impression that suicide is next to impossible. Most of it is based on cherry-picking statistically irrelevant cases, conflating self-harm attempts and cries for help with suicide attempts, or conflating impulsive attempts made under the influence of psychotic or manic episodes with those undertaken in a more sober mindset with careful planning, and or broad over-generalisations regarding methods. For example I was on a website the other day which purported to give statistical chances of success for various methods which were divided into absurd categories like, 'shotgun to the head,' which, if you know anything about shotguns, is genuinely asinine. The difference between a .410 bore and 12 gauge for example is hard to overstate, but both are shotguns. Both also have an extremely wide variety of ammunition types available which vary considerably in effect.

The website claimed you have about a 1% chance of surviving a shotgun blast to the head. However if anyone can show me an example of anyone surviving a 12 or even 20 gauge shotgun round loaded with 00 buckshot to the head at close range I'd love to see it.
 
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toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
But how can you hold a long shotgun to the head? Your arm is just not long enough. Therefore shotgun you have to put it in the mouth and aim, and there no guarantee it can be aim at the brainstem. Anyways, I agreed with Sir After The End.

@gingerplum, look at this news/this guy face, omg

But I agreed, if somehow I can aim a long shotgun to my head then chances I be dead. It just how? It because shotgun are too long, therefore people have to aim it at their mouth. And I don't know if the mouth can guarantee.


And this video of that 18 year old beautiful girl touch my heart.

 
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gingerplum

gingerplum

Enlightened
Nov 5, 2018
1,450
Great, thoughtful response, thank you. Part of my discomfort and bias undoubtedly comes from my dislike and fear of guns; I've never so much as touched one.

You sound like maybe you're knowledgeable enough to be the resident firearms expert... we had one some time ago, @TiredHorse, a lovely, brilliant guy who always had sound advice.
 
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Emily123

Arcanist
May 28, 2019
460
As long as I am very lucky , the same thing can happen for me
 
sanction

sanction

sanctioned
Mar 15, 2019
431
Damn, that girl is actually good looking. Could of become a model, actress, or even apply for beauty pageant. What a pity eh. Thanks for sharing this. All people considering the gun method need to be extremely cautious, or consider other methods if possible
 
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gingerplum

gingerplum

Enlightened
Nov 5, 2018
1,450
But how can you hold a long shotgun to the head? Your arm is just not long enough. Therefore shotgun you have to put it in the mouth and aim, and there no guarantee it can be aim at the brainstem. Anyways, I agreed with Sir After The End.

@gingerplum, look at this news/this guy face, omg

But I agreed, if somehow I can aim a long shotgun to my head then chances I be dead. It just how? It because shotgun are too long, therefore people have to aim it at their mouth. And I don't know if the mouth can guarantee.

You know, I hafta say, that is hands-down the BEST facial transplant I have ever seen. I mean, compare him to the young girl who has the bloated, deformed appearance of a 70 yr-old wearing skin that doesn't fit. Plus, have you heard her speak? Very 'thick,' slurry speech, and she doesn't appear to be altogether mentally intact.

He looks essentially normal... if I didn't know better, I'd assume he had some kind of corrective surgery, but not a face transplant. Now, that also means that he will have to be on anti-rejection medications for the rest of his life, and he will still remain at risk for rejection. Still, if he's happy and grateful to be alive, good on him.
 
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spanishguy22

Enlightened
Apr 9, 2019
1,003
About 20,000 Americans successfully CTB with firearms every year. To dismiss the millions of people who have successfully CTB'd with firearms on the basis of a statistically insignificant handful of marginal cases involving miraculous survivals as a means of writing it off as a method seems rather silly. Of course there are risks. There are risks involved in any method. On the balance firearms are a perfectly practical method where they are cheap and readily available. In fact one of the most practical and effective methods period.



In the context of gunshot injuries no it isn't.

You seem knowledgable. Would you be able to say whether someone would bleed out from a 20 gauge shotgun wound that misses the heart by a bit? I would think you would bleed out every time as long as you have some minutes but now Im worried
 
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toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
yeah @gingerplum, fully agreed.

You should watch this youtube video of that girl. It actually quite touching.
btw, what your prefer ctb method?

oh, and I don't know about that beautiful girl where she said she thinks life is beautiful now and she wants to become a counselor where she talks to people who want to suicide. TBH, if I was her, I rather die. I sure don't want to live like that, no way on Earth I think life is still beautiful after what happen to my face and my speech.

 
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gingerplum

gingerplum

Enlightened
Nov 5, 2018
1,450
yeah @gingerplum, fully agreed.

You should watch this youtube video of that girl. It actually quite touching.
btw, what your prefer ctb method?

oh, and I don't know about that beautiful girl where she said she thinks life is beautiful now and she wants to become a counselor where she talks to people who want to suicide. TBH, if I was her, I rather die. I sure don't want to live like that, no way on Earth I think life is still beautiful after what happen to my face and my speech.


I'm sorry to say that I'm waaaay too vain and superficial to live like that. Seriously, the quality of my life is so marginal right now that a bad haircut could put me over the edge. Skin care and anti-aging protocols are somewhere between hobby and obsession for me.

I can't imagine that she's not on a slew of psychotropic meds, and/or sustained some frontal lobe damage. I mean, she's suicidal over a failed high school romance, but she's a-ok with being blind and severely deformed? It just doesn't jibe for me; that's a 180° personality change. But again, she seems genuinely happy, so I'm glad she feels her life has value.

My first choice method would be a heroin and/or fentanyl overdose; there's nothing more peaceful, except maybe N, and right now N seems way, way to dicey to order. Second choice-- and I still waiver on this-- is short drop hanging. Once you get the hang of it, it's almost frighteningly pleasant... now I get how kids have died playing the "choking game."
 
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Sunset Limited

Sunset Limited

I believe in Sunset Limited
Jul 29, 2019
1,279
I have easy access to a rifle. So I watched the executions videos for research. The videos are really terrible. In the executions of terrorist organizations in the Middle East, they shoot at the back of the head. The bullet is coming out of the frontal lobe or from face. They use weapons like AK-47 (7.65) with high damage power. I also watched executions with hunting rifles. Really incredibly powerful. A shot from behind the head at close range explodes the head like a watermelon. The brain is scattered. If the rifle is mounted firmly and fired at a right angle, I don't think there's a chance of survival. It should be done behind the head.
 
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toomuchgrief

a grieving mother
Sep 15, 2019
401
yeah, but how can someone shot themself able to shot a shotgun in to the back of their head? You can't even point a shotgun to your temple due to shotgun are too long, let alone point to the back of your head.
 
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