Discussion "You're going to die anyway" and other myths

[GenesAndEnvironment]

I've posted once about this, but I think this topic is worth at least one thread. Life-extension, mind-uploading, new tech-things we have not yet heard of, etc. We know that if AGI can be brought up to certain levels it could very well make technological progress develop exponentially and basically extend life by horrific quantities (and maybe slow down time perception and other things like this).

So the question is: "Is it still reasonable to assume that someone young today will die at all?"

One answer could be that the universe will eventually run out of stars for the Dyson spheres or whatever is fuelling the billions of life-extension-years. I believe to recall reading that the universe is going to entropy, but I've also heard that it expands. If new stars are created for an infinite amount of time then we could sadly be looking at immortality (yikes). This can of course be bypassed by suicide, at least at this point (we don't really have the right to die anywhere but on paper and in many places not even that) but we can't assume for society to not take this away when brain-implants or wireless brain interference possibly becomes commonplace.

Thoughts? Can we feel safe knowing that even if we don't commit suicide we will still get to die? Sry for the English, I have been less and less able to care about grammar and stuff as of late so it might be hard to read. Ask questions and I'll try to clarify.

 

[motel rooms]

Can we feel safe knowing that even if we don't commit suicide we will still get to die?

Yes, 99,9999999... % of us will get to die because the serfs/peasants in this techno-feudalism won't get access to such technologies

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

Despite what techno narcissists say all evidence points to the fact that all humans will die , mostly for the cosmological reasons you mentioned

the techno utopia crap has been projected for a long time and it never happened. Anyone who is believing that is a real chump for the elite - rosy projections of the future must be made to keep people on the 9-5 2 hour commute plantation

if you're looking for a 5G mind upload port here is one for you. I can ship via fedex

 

[Yoffi]

Thoughts? Can we feel safe knowing that even if we don't commit suicide we will still get to die?

most certainly yes, some people want to die someday, not by suicide but by old age, you can only live so long until there's fuck all left for you to experience, and once you get to that point the only thing keeping you alive is your animalistic survival instinct, can you imagine living without the sense of curiosity and wonder? that must be horrible.

If new stars are created for an infinite amount of time then we could sadly be looking at immortality (yikes).

at some point, new stars will stop forming, it still will be possible to survive by using the power harvested from black holes, but still, even they will radiate away after an unimaginable amount of time, the universe and everything in it is doomed to non-existence, it will just take a lot of time.

 

[Bat 17]

Interesting.

I would be surprised if humanity makes the next 100 years never mind the next 10 billion

Also this idea about uploading minds sounds very far fetched to me. Even if it was possible what would have been created is a synthetic copy, not the original. It would be a new mind, not a continuation of the old, so it would not offer eternal life any more than cloning yourself would.

I can believe that soon it will be possible to slow or even stop the ageing process using genetic and nano technology. Thereby perhaps possible to live 200 years or more, lifestyle depending. But it's likely to be expensive and who knows might have horrible side effects

 

[motel rooms]

the techno utopia crap has been projected for a long time and it never happened. Anyone who is believing that is a real chump for the elite - rosy projections of the future must be made to keep people on the 9-5 2 hour commute plantation

Techno-utopia, my tattooed gay ass! Ever heard of the fucking gig economy & McJobs, kiddies? Ever heard of the precariat & the useless class? That's your glorious future. Look forward to an existence characterized by precarity / a chronic lack of job security & unending exposure to stress, a "life" always just one paycheck away from disappearing into the black hole of the useless class, a hell populated by permanently unemployable, completely disposable vermin...

 

[Bat 17]

Techno-utopia, my tattooed gay ass! Ever heard of the fucking gig economy & McJobs, kiddies? Ever heard of the precariat & the useless class? That's your glorious future. Look forward to an existence characterized by precarity / a chronic lack of job security & unending exposure to stress, a "life" always just one paycheck away from disappearing into the black hole of the useless class, a hell populated by permanently unemployable, completely disposable vermin...

Bloody hell mate you are making me feel suicidal...

Reminds me of the Eloi and the Morlocks from the Time Machine

 

[yive]

i hope life will be destroyed by AI machines. it's unacceptable that suffering exists. and, i want to die anyway, i don't want to see any techno-utopia crap. "life is needs that do not need to exist". the right to die instantly and painlessly for everyone!

 

[motel rooms]

Bloody hell you are making me feel suicidal...

And I didn't even mention the rise of demagoguery/demise of democracy & the climate disaster that will lead to wars over water, famines & mass migrations much, much sooner than we think Call me the "SI buster"...

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

Sounds like ppl on here are going with the conclusions I believed and hoped they would go with. Still not enough to cure my paranoia, but I don't think anything can.

the useless class, a hell populated by permanently unemployable, completely disposable vermin...

That's me, can't even get a janitor job or a McJob haha!

at some point, new stars will stop forming, it still will be possible to survive by using the power harvested from black holes, but still, even they will radiate away after an unimaginable amount of time, the universe and everything in it is doomed to non-existence, it will just take a lot of time.

I hope you're right, do you have a source or something? If I'm ever trapped in life-extension knowing that the universe will eventually run out of gas without uncertainty would be of great comfort. And are you sure there are no new technologies that could be developed to harvest energy that is now unknown to us?

 

[Yoffi]

I hope you're right, do you have a source or something?

Future of an expanding universe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

or you can just look up "heat death"
in short, this theory says that the never-ending expansion of our universe will eventually stretch all the matter (gases, photons, dark energy) too thin for stars to properly form.

And are you sure there are no new technologies that could be developed to harvest energy that is now unknown to us?

well, possibly, but we would have to first discover it, then learn how the fuck does it even work, and then figure out how to harvest energy from it.
but even then, it would be impossible to survive truly forever, the heat death that I mentioned will take care of everything at some point.

nothing lasts forever.

 

[Beachedwhale]

Graphical timeline from Big Bang to Heat Death - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Opposing views:

Heat death of the universe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Plenty of time for life to arise again here or elsewhere in the universe. Mars has subterranean ice. When Mars moves closer to the sun such that it's at our current position, who knows?

 

[saltshaker]

Techno-utopia, my tattooed gay ass! Ever heard of the fucking gig economy & McJobs, kiddies? Ever heard of the precariat & the useless class? That's your glorious future. Look forward to an existence characterized by precarity / a chronic lack of job security & unending exposure to stress, a "life" always just one paycheck away from disappearing into the black hole of the useless class, a hell populated by permanently unemployable, completely disposable vermin...

Well put. :)

 

[orlandom]

I've posted once about this, but I think this topic is worth at least one thread. Life-extension, mind-uploading, new tech-things we have not yet heard of, etc. We know that if AGI can be brought up to certain levels it could very well make technological progress develop exponentially and basically extend life by horrific quantities (and maybe slow down time perception and other things like this).

So the question is: "Is it still reasonable to assume that someone young today will die at all?"

One answer could be that the universe will eventually run out of stars for the Dyson spheres or whatever is fuelling the billions of life-extension-years. I believe to recall reading that the universe is going to entropy, but I've also heard that it expands. If new stars are created for an infinite amount of time then we could sadly be looking at immortality (yikes). This can of course be bypassed by suicide, at least at this point (we don't really have the right to die anywhere but on paper and in many places not even that) but we can't assume for society to not take this away when brain-implants or wireless brain interference possibly becomes commonplace.

Thoughts? Can we feel safe knowing that even if we don't commit suicide we will still get to die? Sry for the English, I have been less and less able to care about grammar and stuff as of late so it might be hard to read. Ask questions and I'll try to clarify.

I love you bro. I do not want you to leave. Okay?

You are really that good.

But I will definitely leave. =/

 

[Wayfaerer]

One answer could be that the universe will eventually run out of stars for the Dyson spheres or whatever is fuelling the billions of life-extension-years. I believe to recall reading that the universe is going to entropy, but I've also heard that it expands. If new stars are created for an infinite amount of time then we could sadly be looking at immortality (yikes). This can of course be bypassed by suicide, at least at this point (we don't really have the right to die anywhere but on paper and in many places not even that) but we can't assume for society to not take this away when brain-implants or wireless brain interference possibly becomes commonplace.

What? There is so much wrong with this. The universe is undergoing entropy AND it is expanding. New stars forming doesn't have anything to do with immortality but if you want something to piss your pants over then consider Conformal Cyclic Cosmology or new big bangs being continually generated at the plank length. You'll have immortality but in a very bad way (esp. most here.)

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

consider Conformal Cyclic Cosmology or new big bangs being continually generated at the plank length.

Wouldn't everyone die before the reset tho? According to the picture it looks like the universe gets shoved into a small point (everything would be dead) and then another big bang happens? The plank length thing, do you mean that other universes that we would be able to access would form?

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

I love you bro. I do not want you to leave. Okay?

You are really that good.

Not good enough to work at fucking McDonald's so idk about that. Thanks for the support.

 

[WornOutLife]

Dying might become harder but still, we'll do, I bet.
The universe, in spite of being expanding, will eventually die because it'll become so cold that there will be nothing around.

Well, maybe in some thousands or millions of years, humanity will be able to travel to another universes and be able to keep on living there.

Fortunately, we won't be here anymore lol.

 

[Mentalmick]

We're going to die anyway?

Time for another murder spree.

 

[motel rooms]

Time for another murder spree.

I can't stop attempting to say that in a Scottish accent & imagining I'm an inebriated Glaswegian visiting some pretty English village

 

[IHaveNoName]

I feel like eventually this will be impossible to avoid and if we manage to escape people will just keep bringing us back and it will be impossible to escape it would be the worst torture imaginable but would it really still be you if it was virtual or just a duplication of yourself?

Also what the fuck dose any of it matter when your dead your gone, you no longer exist so nothing matters at all.

 

[Life sucks]

Extending life is possible.
Immortality is impossible.

 

[eternalmelancholy]

Can we feel safe knowing that even if we don't commit suicide we will still get to die?

The only saving grace of life is knowing one day you will die. The problem is many things can and will go wrong before then.

I want to save myself further pain, humiliation and misery. Killing myself at this point is just self care. I want to die while I still have a shred of dignity left. Something that mindless pro lifers will never understand.

 

[IsThisTheEnd?]

humanity will die from the final suicide, the end of humanity by man.

 

[TotallyIsolated]

This stuff is still very much science fiction. We're WAY more than a century away from any of it.

Whole brain emulation in particular is something massively over hyped, and I really don't believe that 'uploading' a mind will ever be possible, at least not the way its depicted in movies and TV. A living person is more than a neural network, plus there doesn't exist any process for transferring consciousness out of a person and into a machine. They're not going to shoot you once they've scanned your brain. You'll just carry on as you did before. And that snapshot of your brain wont be a fully conscious person - it'll just be a pile of numbers sitting on a computer.

Its not quite the same thing, but what do you think about Herietta Lacks immortal cancer cells (the HeLa cell line)? Does she count as being still alive? You could argue she was kept alive, but I'm pretty sure that the person she was has experienced death.

 

[Mentalmick]

Extending life is possible.
Immortality is impossible.

 

[motel rooms]

View attachment 68028

China rising after 2 centuries of humiliations & destroying inferior Western technology

 

[Wayfaerer]

Wouldn't everyone die before the reset tho? According to the picture it looks like the universe gets shoved into a small point (everything would be dead) and then another big bang happens? The plank length thing, do you mean that other universes that we would be able to access would form?

eventually, at some point in the very very VERY far future, another universe just like ours will be created and because of determinism, it would play out the exact same way.

 

[profoundexperience]

@Yoffi & @Beachedwhale brought-up the "heat death" of the universe... Here's a very good video about how the universe might eventually end (best as we can say from our current theories)

Quoted from Reddit: The simple answer: heat death is a looooooooooong way off. Heat death would occur when the universe is around 10^100 years old. That's a 1 followed by 100 zeros. That is an impossibly long time. ... It's impossible for any human to even begin to truly comprehend what a frankly ridiculously long time that is.

As seen as time "passes" in the video... astonishing and stupefying.

nothing lasts forever.

I agree with this.