You have to think DEEPER (about life)

[derpyderpins]

In law school I had this professor with the most stereotypical, over the top midwestern accent you could imagine. He would always tell us "you have to think DEEPER," with emphasis like that. Good professor. I'll explain what he meant.

So in law you get that there will be some case at a local level: john sues susie for something. One of them wins, it gets appealed up to a higher court, say the supreme court. The Supreme Court then will tell everybody what the rule is. If you are called on and asked to discuss the case for the class, there are levels of depth:

• The Supreme Court says John wins. "Okay, but think DEEPER. Why did John win?"
• Well, because Susie did X at Y time. "Okay, but think DEEPER. Why does that mean John wins?"
• Uh, well you can't do X at Y time. "Okay, now even DEEPER. Why can't you?"
• Um, well the Court had said in this other case a couple years ago that you can't. "Okay, but why?"
• Well, there is Z principle of law that has to be followed and the court made the rule to fit with that and blah blah. "Good!"

Something along those lines would be an exchange. (Simplified.)

So, I tell you, you have to think DEEPER about life. Don't stop at a conclusion that is sad and ugly.

We get into how normal people don't understand us a lot. They don't understand why someone would be suicidal. They don't think about the ugly parts of life (or aren't faced with them.)

This leads to the "normie," "NPC" rhetoric that you hear sometimes:

• They're brainwashed
• Oversocialized!
• Don't think for themselves!
• Can't think!
• Cope!
• Sheep!
• Low IQ!

So, now, when that person starts to think the world/life is nothing but trash, they've invalidated any opposition to their view. If you think life is worth living, you must be an NPC, so I don't have to engage and consider what you say. If you believe in love, don't think having a job is the end of the world, or think that there's beauty in this life, you must be one of those people who just accepts what they're told and never thinks for themselves. I've been in that spot. Thinking about it a lot lately @LaVieEnRose @Alexei_Kirillov @DefinitelyReady . I used to say things about how awful life was and the system was just sucking you dry and you'd work your life away and you could never enjoy anything, and anyone who disagreed with me was just a sheep:

• Nobody cares about anyone else, they're all just out for themselves.
• Death is a 0 which is better because there's no pain. (Yes, it has been brought to my attention that I used to buy into this argument that I now find silly.)
• Death is beautiful, life is ugly. It's all suffering.

I really did say stuff like that. I've had a look at the receipts.

And there's some truth to a lot of those ideas! People can be frustratingly selfish. A lot of people just follow trends. Working conditions (and a lot of other things) aren't fair. There is a lot of ugliness in the world. So, once you're someone who has thought about life more deeply than the average person, you start to see all of this badness and ugliness. Then, when someone tells you that "nah, life is good," the instinct is to reject it. 'They just haven't gotten as DEEP as I have, that's why they say that.' And that thought isn't necessarily wrong.

The problem is, that our mind needs to get a workout to improve. We need our ideas to be challenged. But once you've decided everyone who disagrees with you is invalid from the start, you stop improving. You don't think any DEEPER. So, you get to this point where you are DEEPER than the average person, but now you've stagnated, and the place you've stagnated is not fun at all.

If your suicidality is brought about by an existential type of dread, I recommend you consider that you haven't thought deep enough. That is my experience.

This is not meant to be taken literally, but I thought of this meme and had to make it for this post:



Not saying anyone is low IQ, it's just a joke. And very much the path I went through in life. Young and naive: life is beautiful. Start to think deeper and see some shit: life is ugly. Now, I see that through all the ugliness there is still beauty. That doesn't mean everyone's life is worth living. That doesn't mean I'm changing my stance on assisted suicide. It just means I now know that it is possible for life to be worth it.

A progression like this.

Stage 1:

• People are nice!
• Living is fun!
• I'm so excited for the future!

Stage 2:

• Never mind. People are awful. They're oversocialized sheep who will stab you in the back and only look out for themselves.
• Life is a chore. You work so much of your life away the rest of it isn't worth it.
• There's nothing to be excited about, we all die.

Stage 3:

• People are flawed. Many are frustrating and won't behave as you want. Still, genuine connections are worth the effort.
• Life is really tough, and way too much of it is work. But experiencing this world, and the sensations and opportunities it offers . . . well, it may not even things out, but I want to pursue it while we have time.
• My life is not what I'd like it to be, but I'm glad I've met and talked to the people I have, and looking back I can see how all the pain was part of a larger story.

This post might not be for everyone, and I get that. But, for my friends who are stuck in their heads, thinking DEEPER just might help get you through.

 

[daley]

I appreciate the effort you put into your posts @derpyderpins !

I am in my 50s, and I can identify in my past a sense of superiority over "normies".
I am not sure I ever got over it. In some of points you raised I have managed to go
beyond stage 2, but I cannot say that I have reached stage 3 yet. I manage to be
more compassionate and understanding of others but I have given up on myself
more or less.

How did I get beyond stage 2. I am not sure. I don't think I would have been able
to do that in a young age. Perhaps I needed to feel better about myself, and used my
pessimism as an identity.

 

[derpyderpins]

I appreciate the effort you put into your posts @derpyderpins !

I am in my 50s, and I can identify in my past a sense of superiority over "normies".
I am not sure I ever got over it. In some of points you raised I have managed to go
beyond stage 2, but I cannot say that I have reached stage 3 yet. I manage to be
more compassionate and understanding of others but I have given up on myself
more or less.

How did I get beyond stage 2. I am not sure. I don't think I would have been able
to do that in a young age. Perhaps I needed to feel better about myself, and used my
pessimism as an identity.

Thank you.

I'm certainly not all the way there yet, and right now I'm riding a wave of good feelings as a newlywed. I'm sure I'll fall a little closer to stage 2 sometime again, but I feel like if I write this stuff out so I can identify it during the struggle, it can keep me on track.

"Pessimism as an identity" hits hard. When your identity is tied to your negativity, you can't really afford to get rid of it, right?

 

[-Link-]

Man, I love these posts of yours.

Literally I could have used this about 12 hours earlier today as I found myself in a situation with a couple family members who -- let's say, weren't thinking deeply enough on a subject... and the "Supreme Court" guide here would have been a more constructive way for me to handle it instead of just getting irritated with them as I did.

So I'm with @daley here in feeling stuck between Stage 2 and Stage 3.

I manage to be more compassionate and understanding of others but I have given up on myself more or less.

Oof... I find this a pretty harsh reality to admit to myself, but this is probably where I am at this time as well, although I try to look at it more as "surviving" than "giving up..." Maybe these two terms are synonymous in my case, I don't know...

In looking at Stage 3, I wonder if it's possible to get there while still under the cloud of a deep depression. I'm reading the points and I do see that as a realistic place people can reach in life. I recognize it as being a worthwhile goal and surely as a worthwhile place to be... But as I look over those points, I'm also hearing a "nope, nope, nope" coming from inside me. Why is this? Unresolved bitterness from the time I spent in Stage 2? An addiction to the so-called comfort of negativity? The fog of a severe depression? The cumulative effect of past personal traumas? Many inner demons... No shortcuts here... Just time, pure dedication, concerted effort, and... probably having to find some faith in myself at some point along the way.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

This reminds me of an interaction I had with someone a while back where they basically just kept following up everything I said with "Why?" After a few rounds of this I got to a point where I realized I had no answer, which prompted me to do some further reflecting on why exactly I was doing what I was doing.

Insightful post, as always, thanks for sharing.