Venting Yet another reason why voluntary euthanasia should be legalized and allowed v2

[TAW122]

Disclaimer: I'm not going to make light of this tragedy nor glorify the perpetrator. The actions of said individual is reprehensible, and this thread is to show yet another perfect example of what happens in a society that doesn't have a legal right to die for it's citizens.

When I learned about this recent tragedy in the news yet again (which is something that is recurring in the US), I can't help but to think, this is yet another major reason why voluntary euthanasia and the right to die should be legalized and enshrined. Of course, many prolifers would just peddle the same bullshit platitudes, scrutinize about means access (more gun control, more red flag laws, ban assault weapons, mental health crisis, etc. Note: I'm not trying to get political here as this is an apolitical issue and both major parties have their issues too.), infringing more on civil liberties (increase in paternalism and surveillance), all in the name of safety and security. In the past, I've written similar threads about that in previous tragedies too as well as why voluntary euthanasia could be beneficial for society as well as the individual oneself.

See the news stories here:

Nashville school shooter Audrey Hale’s chilling final messages to pal revealed: ‘I’m planning to die’

Nashville school shooter Audrey Hale sent her friend, Averianna Patton, a chilling “suicide note” on Instagram minutes before shooting at The Covenant School, writing: “I’m planning to die today.”…

nypost.com

Also here:

What we know about Covenant School shooting in Nashville

7 people are dead after one of the deadliest school shootings in Tennessee history. Here's what we know so far.

www.tennessean.com

No surprise, just imagine if voluntary euthanasia was legalized and if that perpetrator had access to that. Instead of those people dying, then it would be a win-win situation for both parties (the innocent and unwilling victims of violence as well as the perpetrator). This is because if say, this person was going to die then they would get their wish while not harming others who wish to live. Ironically though, society has always (and still currently does) hold the view that suicide is wrong, suicide is never allowed (except for maybe terminal illness), and this is unfortunately one of the consequences of a prohibitionist society. A society that loves life and is willing to do anything and (just about) everything to prolong and preserve it regardless of the circumstances.

Cynically speaking, perhaps subconsciously prolifers never really thought that "Maybe if voluntary euthanasia was legalized and regulated, and if we stopped trying to prevent suicide at every step of the way, in every scenario (barring terminal illness), perhaps this tragedy may just never happen!" I always viewed euthanasia and suicide as an option, albeit it should be very carefully considered as there is no returning or going back from it. While I could get into more details and in-depth about the legalization of voluntary euthanasia, not just for special circumstances, but for those who would otherwise do harm to others. However, I'll post that in another thread as this thread will be mainly focused on the recent tragedy.

Anyhow, it is ironic that in the aftermath most people (prolifers of course) will claim that the perpetrator should have started with themselves and not taken innocents with them. I would concur with that, however! Suppose we rewind time and go back to the day before the tragedy, and instead of the perpetrator committing this heinous action, the perpetrator took their own life. Instead of the tragedy talking about many victims, most people would still be upset that oh said person should have sought "help" or that said person should never have taken their own life, and there would be articles about mental health, gun control, and of course, the (obtusely) obligatory three-digit hotline number being plastered everywhere in a virtuous (empty) signal.

I'm sure there are people who can relate to how I think and perceive this situation. @FuneralCry @Forever Sleep @RainAndSadness

Edit: I added an additional link to another thread I recently written.

 

[Shadowlord900]

Those examples you posted is one of many reasons why I've long lost faith in humanity. It's like they cannot see the benefits in voluntary death. This planet will suffer too much from overpopulation long before the majority of humanity finally realizes "Hey, maybe we shouldn't keep so many people around?"

 

[ksp]

excellent post! i'm just wondering how many tragedies like this (and many others) will take for pro-lifers to realize that society has always had, and will continue to have clear limitations

voluntary euthanasia is just on of the possibilities, but this society insists that it should not be available

well, maybe all normal people should ignore all pro-lifer views - from all levels of governments, and adopt a common sense approach, that highlights compassion, respect, and understanding

i too am sorry for all people that lost their lives, but now it's too late to be sorry for something that could have been prevented…

 

[TAW122]

Those examples you posted is one of many reasons why I've long lost faith in humanity. It's like they cannot see the benefits in voluntary death. This planet will suffer too much from overpopulation long before the majority of humanity finally realizes "Hey, maybe we shouldn't keep so many people around?"

I know right? Yeah, overpopulation is an issue too, but more importantly, the lack of the right to die for those who (desperately) want it, leads to some of these horrific events. Even if there was enough resources for all humans on the planet (just for the sake of argument), it still wouldn't be a good idea to keep those who wish to be gone to stay, just so the majority of the other humans don't feel bad about loss.

excellent post! i'm just wondering how many tragedies like this (and many others) will take for pro-lifers to realize that society has always had, and will continue to have clear limitations

voluntary euthanasia is just on of the possibilities, but this society insists that it should not be available

well, maybe all normal people should ignore all pro-lifer views - from all levels of governments, and adopt a common sense approach, that highlights compassion, respect, and understanding

i too am sorry for all people that lost their lives, but now it's too late to be sorry for something that could have been prevented…

I just wished voluntary euthanasia is available and expanded for people who really want it. I believe that even if it prevents at least one (potential/prospective) tragedy, then that is another several people who otherwise would not have died against their will and also another sufferer being laid to rest, again, a win-win scenario in my eyes...

 

[maybemonday]

I think that everyone has the right to death.I'm waiting for MAiD to be available in Canada for mental health conditions.

 

[Forever Sleep]

To be honest- it could well be that I don't know enough about this but I don't quite see the connection myself. As in- I'm not so convinced that legalising assisted suicide would prevent something like this from happening.

Again- I'm not all that knowledgable but I imagine murder-suicide plots are VERY different to suicides. I imagine these people are VERY angry with society. This person may well have wanted to die. I suppose if they had been given their wish- maybe it wouldn't have lead to this- I guess that is your argument? Still- they had lots of guns- why didn't they just turn one on themselves- rather than murder innocent people and wait to be taken out by the police?

I suppose these kinds of acts are a protest. Still- I'm not so sure the protest was for assisted dying in this case. I think perhaps it was more along the lines of how this person felt mis-treated in life. I don't know.

It raises an interesting conundrum though. Let's say assisted suicide does start becoming more widely available. I imagine there will still be SOME criteria to meet still and I imagine people WILL still be encouraged to seek help and 'recovery'. The interesting part to me is people who are suicidal who ALSO confess the desire to hurt others... Will it just be easier and less risky to green light their assisted suicide to get rid of the 'problem'?

I suspect for us- seeing as we see death as our escape- this MAYBE isn't a big deal. As in- lucky them. Still- what does it say about us as a civilisation? We'd rather just destroy our problems/people that don't fit into society. Ok- it's not genocide- they themselves wanted to die. WHY did they want to die though? Why are they so angry at society that they have the desire to go out and kill innocent children and teachers? Not to say it's ever justified to do that but there must have been reasons- shouldn't we be trying to work on those reasons rather than weeding out the people who don't fit in?

 

[sorrowful]

evry time this happens i can see myself in the shooters shoes & almst relate. that is what is scary. i first found i related to eric and dylan whn i was a bit younger.

not planning an attack only wnt to kill myself btu i am scared f somehow snapping

wish society wld stop trying to "save everyone" and accept its impossible. i know i am not wht is considered to be normal by the majority but i cnt escape my brain. th fact im being kept alive feels like torture constantly, i am always at war with myself

 

[TAW122]

To be honest- it could well be that I don't know enough about this but I don't quite see the connection myself. As in- I'm not so convinced that legalising assisted suicide would prevent something like this from happening.

Again- I'm not all that knowledgable but I imagine murder-suicide plots are VERY different to suicides. I imagine these people are VERY angry with society. This person may well have wanted to die. I suppose if they had been given their wish- maybe it wouldn't have lead to this- I guess that is your argument? Still- they had lots of guns- why didn't they just turn one on themselves- rather than murder innocent people and wait to be taken out by the police?

I suppose these kinds of acts are a protest. Still- I'm not so sure the protest was for assisted dying in this case. I think perhaps it was more along the lines of how this person felt mis-treated in life. I don't know.

It raises an interesting conundrum though. Let's say assisted suicide does start becoming more widely available. I imagine there will still be SOME criteria to meet still and I imagine people WILL still be encouraged to seek help and 'recovery'. The interesting part to me is people who are suicidal who ALSO confess the desire to hurt others... Will it just be easier and less risky to green light their assisted suicide to get rid of the 'problem'?

I suspect for us- seeing as we see death as our escape- this MAYBE isn't a big deal. As in- lucky them. Still- what does it say about us as a civilisation? We'd rather just destroy our problems/people that don't fit into society. Ok- it's not genocide- they themselves wanted to die. WHY did they want to die though? Why are they so angry at society that they have the desire to go out and kill innocent children and teachers? Not to say it's ever justified to do that but there must have been reasons- shouldn't we be trying to work on those reasons rather than weeding out the people who don't fit in?

Indeed, murder-suicides do have a different motive than just suicide alone. Yes, my argument is that if we as a society grant them the right to die as a given right from the getgo, then they would be much less likely to commit such horrific acts of violence against others. Especially when there is an incentive to keep their inherent right intact (meaning that they can lose the right to die if they do something that justifies and warrants suspension/forfeiture of said right).

Sure, it wouldn't stop every murder-suicide or just psychopathic people and evil people out there, but it would definitely address those who just wish to go out on their own terms. One way to look at this is suppose we have 100 cases of murder-suicides, and maybe 20-30 of those cases are those who may otherwise have just wanted to go out before they resort to acts of mass violence and mass murder, then we have effectively reduced the amount of incidents where other unwilling participants become casualities by 20-30%. Surely, most people (including pro-lifers) couldn't object to have 20-30 fewer cases where others are harmed? Again, while I don't think it would solve all problems, it would alleviate most of the existing problems and even some minor improvement in overall quality of life is better than the current state of reality that we live in.

With regards to working on reasons, yes we can still work on improving society as well as addressing underlying reasons and root causes while granting the right to die. The right to die is just an additional option as well as an actual out for people who cannot fix those problems or who tried and they are unable to resolve it (after adequate time, be it like half a year, a year, or however long the person is willing to spend to 'try' to fix said problems). In other words, the right to die does not preclude the incentive to fix existing problems, we can have both, and the right to die is just an additional option should efforts and attempts to rectify said problem(s) fail and/or the person has already done what they can (to no success) to fix the problem. In our current reality and world, where the right to die is only afforded to those who are terminally ill or those in very dire situations, we are only left to (try to) fix existing problems and even that, to a lesser degree of success, thus leaving no other alternative or option if we are unable to fix the problems, putting those at the mercy of fate, sentience, and suffering (until natural causes or other causes of death).

evry time this happens i can see myself in the shooters shoes & almst relate. that is what is scary. i first found i related to eric and dylan whn i was a bit younger.

not planning an attack only wnt to kill myself btu i am scared f somehow snapping

wish society wld stop trying to "save everyone" and accept its impossible. i know i am not wht is considered to be normal by the majority but i cnt escape my brain. th fact im being kept alive feels like torture constantly, i am always at war with myself

I can relate to what you said. Most of my life has been constant turmoil internally and externally and I wished I had eternal rest from sentience myself. Yes, I bolded what you said because I share very strong sentiments towards what you said as well. If I had the right to die (not the current laws that are on the books that exist in our reality now, but the ones that I'm referring to in this thread), then I would gladly (personally and speaking for myself) take it, as long as I'm guaranteed (meaning no moving goalposts, false promises, no ifs, ands, or buts) that IMMEDIATELY right even after a waiting period, evaluation, and all the other red tape.

 

[FuneralCry]

I just think that legalising voluntary euthanasia would only be a benefit as it would reduce so much unnecessary suffering. It's true that it may prevent some murder suicides, maybe not all but still I view it as being unacceptable how it's not legalised.

 

[TAW122]

I just think that legalising voluntary euthanasia would only be a benefit as it would reduce so much unnecessary suffering. It's true that it may prevent some murder suicides, maybe not all but still I view it as being unacceptable how it's not legalised.

Yes, even if it doesn't prevent ALL murder-suicides, just on the grounds of reducing unnecessary suffering is already more than sufficient reason to legalize it.

 

[glitterypearls]

murder suicide mostly happen because they want attention, they want to be known as a figure and they want their name in the news. they know school shootings will get them that, those people are disgusting and voluntary euthanasia wouldn't prevent that sadly :/

they have a gun, why didn't they just CTB themselves? why do they need to take couple of people with them? I met few on reddit who had this idea "why should I die alone?" so the voluntary euthanasia is a good idea for people who want to die and be at peace but won't stop those attention seeking people who want their death to be this big thing.

 

[TAW122]

murder suicide mostly happen because they want attention, they want to be known as a figure and they want their name in the news. they know school shootings will get them that, those people are disgusting and voluntary euthanasia wouldn't prevent that sadly :/

they have a gun, why didn't they just CTB themselves? why do they need to take couple of people with them? I met few on reddit who had this idea "why should I die alone?" so the voluntary euthanasia is a good idea for people who want to die and be at peace but won't stop those attention seeking people who want their death to be this big thing.

Right, so for those people, the criminal justice system should be applied to them, since (assuming) they would be considered mentally competent thus held accountable for their actions. Now if we are talking about preemptively stopping them, then yes, I would in support in having society and the state intervene against those who are a danger to society and others. While we cannot arrest and detain those who haven't committed crimes, there are red flag laws that will address those who otherwise would cause harm to others.

Therefore, instead of red flag laws used to prevent those who just wish to exit peacefully and with dignity (only harm is to themselves and NOT others), use red flag laws to intervene against those who are a threat towards others, before they commit a heinous act.

Also, another thing that the media can do is to not provide notoriety towards those who want 'attention' and perhaps this may be another factor to stem those who are hellbent on seeking attention by harming others and gaining infamy.