Yale Economist Suggests Mass Suicide for Old People of Japan

[cowie]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/12/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare


This caused quite a stir on Twitter recently, with nearly everyone enraged he would suggest such a thing. The world is aging (but Japan is aging far faster) and the question of how to fund pension systems is going to be a big issue as population pyramids invert. Do you think better access to euthanasia could help with this?

 

[jodes2]

Yeah it would definitely help. Lots of good reasons to provide such services.

 

[miserableforever]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/12/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare


This caused quite a stir on Twitter recently, with nearly everyone enraged he would suggest such a thing. The world is aging (but Japan is aging far faster) and the question of how to fund pension systems is going to be a big issue as population pyramids invert. Do you think better access to euthanasia could help with this?

Our governments brought on this system themselves. Not a senior's problem they messed up with their greed and now can't feed the elderly. Death should be self determined, if so desired, unless of course it's of old age/disease etc.

 

[Noob]

Wow. Savage!

 

[suisuiforum]

I'm a proponent of legalizing euthanasia but only for those who consent. I still think that the most salient argument for voluntary euthanasia is the notion that everyone has the right to decide when and how they die, but enacting mandatory euthanasia would be a massive violation of people's bodily autonomy. I'm not sure about the precise details of this particular debate besides what's written in the link, but it did mention that "the possibility of making [euthanasia] mandatory in the future… will come up in discussion."

However, since this was published by the NYT, the very news outlet that grossly misinterpreted SS, I wouldn't be surprised if upon further evaluation, the same was done in this situation.

 

[Babumax]

Logan's Run. An old movie.

 

[missingpeace]

How many will jump at the opportunity in Japan, I wonder..

 

[itsallpointless]

How does this forum deal with controversial opinions? Just for reference on how to proceed

 

[suisuiforum]

How does this forum deal with controversial opinions? Just for reference on how to proceed

I believe it's generally fine to state controversial opinions as long as you don't include personal attacks on other users. Be prepared for debate though; even if you don't break forum rules, other users can still (constructively) criticize your thoughts.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Sorry- I didn't login to read the article... but MANDATORY euthanasia... Isn't that genocide?!! I'm all for VOLUNTARY assisted suicide but Jesus- thanks for your life's service to this country and all the tax you've paid in but now that you're not useful anymore- f@!k off... Lovely...

Reckon I'd definitely off myself WELL before my expiry date in that case. Screw them! I don't want to be a pawn in their capitalist game anyway. Kill myself before paying shit loads of tax and accumulating wealth that then gets swallowed in inheritance tax. Oh- and don't have children either... You're not enslaving my kids to wage slavery.

 

[wilted-rose]

This world is so contradictory I am very appalled. They worked so hard only for their descendants to tell them to kill themselves. I don't know what to say.

 

[Zykg85]

Wasn't there a society at some point in modern history that was like "the elderly are a drain on society so they should be executed" or something like that?

Voluntary euthanasia is one thing. Mandatory euthanasia is something else entirely...

 

[LastFlowers]

Wasn't there a society at some point in modern history that was like "the elderly are a drain on society so they should be executed" or something like that?

Voluntary euthanasia is one thing. Mandatory euthanasia is something else entirely...

Like Midsommar?

 

[Zykg85]

Like Midsommar?

Nah that was a movie. And the reason was less about a drain on their resources and more about that cult's sacrificial rites lol

 

[outrider567]

Logan's Run. An old movie.

Past 30, you're dead

 

[Disaster]

Could it even be called euthanasia when it's non-consensual? We have other words for that, like for example a murder or an execution. Maybe they need to figure out a new word for that if they really want to, but when it's involuntary and the officials approve it, we usually call I am execution, don't we? For people who have not commuted any crime. Let's be honest about it at least.

 

[RichardFirst]

I believe that he suggest seppuku, which is ritual disembowelment. That seems extreme.

I think that euthanasia should be offered to anyone who wants it, and I'm sure that that idea will have no opponents in these parts. Thankfully, as we're seeing in Canada, it looks like we're moving to a world where MAID (Medical Assistance in Dying) will be something that people can avail of if they feel that it's necessary.

 

[EqualibriumWithin]

Our governments brought on this system themselves. Not a senior's problem they messed up with their greed and now can't feed the elderly. Death should be self determined, if so desired, unless of course it's of old age/disease etc.

agreed 100%

 

[Ernest1964]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/12/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare


This caused quite a stir on Twitter recently, with nearly everyone enraged he would suggest such a thing. The world is aging (but Japan is aging far faster) and the question of how to fund pension systems is going to be a big issue as population pyramids invert. Do you think better access to euthanasia could help with this?

The link doesn't show the story, only the ad for you to pay to get into the site.

 

[Bitterman1996]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/12/...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare


This caused quite a stir on Twitter recently, with nearly everyone enraged he would suggest such a thing. The world is aging (but Japan is aging far faster) and the question of how to fund pension systems is going to be a big issue as population pyramids invert. Do you think better access to euthanasia could help with this?

That's just late stage capitalist system at works lmao

Access to euthanasia only for old people sounds awful and discriminatory

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

It's truly abysmal that people who have been suicidal for years cannot obtain euthanasia/assisted dying in the vast majority of countries due to some flimsy justification of "santicity of life" and slippery slope fallacies, yet a big-shot academic from one of the world's most prestigious universities is suggesting a mass culling of elderly people who would never consent to it. Am I reading this right?

The world truly seems headed in a grim and authoritarian direction, wherein bodily autonomy is scant and a human being's value is determined by their productivity in a capitalistic context. I don't doubt that in the near future some countries will enact forced birth policies to ensure that growth is achieved, both in terms of economy and population.

Garbage like this economist's new age modest proposal truly speaks to the deep hole we've dug ourself into as a species. People don't want to look after for their elderly family members, neighbours, and friends, and expect government entities and beurocratic care agencies to do the work for them. It's a sad state of affairs when elderly people are left to rot and could be encouraged to die against their will, simply because our society cannot be assed to see disabled and unproductive individuals as anything but an economic drain that siphons resources away from the machina.

 

[Disappointered]

Wasn't there a society at some point in modern history that was like "the elderly are a drain on society so they should be executed" or something like that?

Voluntary euthanasia is one thing. Mandatory euthanasia is something else entirely...

Genocide is only a crime so serious it needs its own name when it's the despised "others".

Culling elderly useless eaters over the age of 60-65 was also brought up as a good idea in Jacques Attali's 1981 book "L'Avenir de la Vie". The unlikeliest of sources...or the likeliest?

 

[mengeles_trash]

Nothing's too extreme as long as it's for inceasing profits for a handful of wealthy people.

Mass exterminate the elderly, mass exterminate the children, mass exterminate teens, adults, etc.

When your system is such a pile of crap, just... mass exterminate them all, as long as those short term profits keep rolling in. Now, to all the awesome media propaganda promoting that over the past 80 years (sorry, anime and videogame fans).

 

[EqualibriumWithin]

The link doesn't show the story, only the ad for you to pay to get into the site.

you can use an archived version if desired to get past paywall

 

[Ultracheese]

A question that may sound really silly: how exactly do we define the elderly? 65 and up? 70 and up? I'm curious what the consensus here is. If this proposal was to be enacted, would it just be the current generation of elderly people, or as soon as people hit a certain age would they have to kill themselves? I'm not sure that was entirely clear in the article.

I think the issue with this proposal besides what many commentators have pointed out about the morality of this is the fact that this seems like the far-fetched musings of an academic who is more interested in theory than practicality. The article mentions Dr.Narita's works in the field of research on algorithms. This feels like a proposal an AI would come up with. It is a machine-like way of viewing the world with no thought to the emotional impact this would have on families.

I'm not familiar with Japan as a culture or how its economic system works. What is the logic behind how mass suicide of the elderly will help pave the way for a better economy and more jobs open for young people? Wouldn't it be wiser to interrogate the work culture of Japan and figure out a better solution from that point?

 

[outrider567]

He backtracked on his comments today

 

[FadingFast2023]

Rebranded genocide brought to us by the elites at Yale and the NY Times!

 

[Outsidelessness]

That's just late stage capitalist system at works lmao

Access to euthanasia only for old people sounds awful and discriminatory

It's certainly better than no access to euthanasia for anyone.

 

[lukas19]

As much as i've heard it's because of depopulation as less and less children are born so there is will not be enough workers to pay for the retired pensioners. China is facing the same problem.

Our governments brought on this system themselves. Not a senior's problem they messed up with their greed and now can't feed the elderly. Death should be self determined, if so desired, unless of course it's of old age/disease etc

 

[lukas19]

You hit dead on. And as someone who somewhat studies the nature of capitalism, it could also possibly be worse than you think it is. Productivity also doesn't have to just mean working for it either, it can also mean being exploited by capital as well: Desiring production becomes apart of production itself. On another note, the fact that most mainstream fictions of the future tend to be different forms of a technocapitalist dystopia can mean it's even more likely to come true as one, which is called hyperstitional fiction (wordplay for superstition). Society is definitely headed to another hell and it's absolutely too late to change the system from within.

Reminds me of a sci-fi film from the 70s called 'Logan's Run' where everyone was killed when they hit their 30th birthday. Personally I thought 30 was too young but what would be the best age if it helped it save the species?