Venting “X lost the battle against depression (or insert ailment)!”

[TAW122]

I'm sure a fair amount of you all have heard this statement said especially after someone has CTB'd, regardless of the circumstances to why said person would CTB. It really infuriates me when I hear that people who have CTB'd have lost the battle against a disease. In addition to this, pro-lifers are also disingenuous to attribute CTB as some sort of pathological illness, the result of an irrational mind, or even some disease (nothing new, of course). If anything, I think the demedicalization and destigmatization of CTB such that instead of it being viewed as a health problem, a disease, and/or otherwise irrational act, it being viewed as an ultimate act of bodily autonomy that one can exercise. However, that will be saved for another thread as this thread will focus on the issue of the language that the bereaved use to express their discontent towards the deceased. The fact that they always view CTB as such, or anything but a human right and ultimate exercise of bodily autonomy is just insulting and disrespectful towards the people who really want out and managed to escape sentience and suffering.

If anything, my argument is that people who CTB'd did not lose the battle, but rather they won against their survival instinct. It takes tremendous courage to CTB, and also fortitude and skill to be able to successfully CTB especially with methods that are scary and also prone to failure. Speaking of the survival instinct, people who attribute those who survived or did not later go on towards to CTB as choosing to live, but that couldn't be further from the truth. This is because the survival instinct is a built-in biological mechanism that is not the act of a rational mind, but rather a primitive instinct that is derived from evolution in order to preserve the species (particularly all living things, including humans).

Therefore, whenever I hear such lines in either news articles, posts by pro-lifers, or even just anywhere, it really comes off as insulting towards the people who CTB'd. To be fair, sure there may be some people who actually didn't want to CTB but impulsively did so and succeeded, but to those who really wanted to go, planned meticulously, had all their resources and method ready, and finally made the attempt, they didn't lose the battle against such an ailment, they overcame their most powerful internal obstacle, the stubborn survival instinct! Additionally, those people who have CTB'd are no longer suffering and (from a pro-choicers' perspective) they won against the oppressive, prohibitive anti-choice world, they won against their biological mechanism that is one of (if not) the hardest instincts to overcome, and they won against nature itself or the disease as they went out as much as they can on their terms instead of allowing their ailments defeating them! It's just so inaccurate and insulting to claim otherwise.

 

[Scythe]

Pro lifers always talk about how much courage you need to keep living, yet they never see the courage you need to die. Even less violent methods, SN, hanging and overdose require a lot of courage, or at least to be at a point of despair or acceptance that overrides SI.

Suicide also doesn't have to be just a win against SI. For me it's also me winning my fight against society. I do not wish to conform, I do not wish to live in this disgusting society that expects you to work until you are useless then forget about you let alone be a part of it. So I will choose death. Perhaps it can also mean other things to other people, the pro-lifer depictions of suicide are extremely ignorant to say the least.

 

[Scattered-Soul]

I hate knowing that if I manage to succeed in CTB people will probably say the same about me despite me constantly talking about the actual reason and trying to get those so called professionals to listen and help me. I know that this post isn't entirely about that but the idea of me being misrepresented like that pisses me off to an unbelievable extent, if there was an afterlife where we could keep an eye on the living and if there was a way to come back to life I would've probably gotten so angry that I'd do exactly that and I'd slap the shit out of the people who attribute my suicide to depression and me simply not seeking the needed help or whatever. I know that it shouldn't matter since at that point I'd be dead and gone forever but I don't want to become a part of that statistic, I don't want my death to be used to uplift mental health services and for the conclusion to be "seek help and talk to your family and friends" and whatnot.

It feels so patronizing as well, I just hate that as a statement so much. And I definitely agree with your last paragraph.

 

[bridgegirl]

I hate knowing that if I manage to succeed in CTB people will probably say the same about me despite me constantly talking about the actual reason and trying to get those so called professionals to listen and help me. I know that this post isn't entirely about that but the idea of me being misrepresented like that pisses me off to an unbelievable extent, if there was an afterlife where we could keep an eye on the living and if there was a way to come back to life I would've probably gotten so angry that I'd do exactly that and I'd slap the shit out of the people who attribute my suicide to depression and me simply not seeking the needed help or whatever. I know that it shouldn't matter since at that point I'd be dead and gone forever but I don't want to become a part of that statistic, I don't want my death to be used to uplift mental health services and for the conclusion to be "seek help and talk to your family and friends" and whatnot.

It feels so patronizing as well, I just hate that as a statement so much. And I definitely agree with your last paragraph.

Yeah, and they never what to fucking do when you have tried seeming help and you have talked to your friends and family (who sometimes don't care).

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think it also highlights a fundamental difference in how differently we view life. I'd say acts are courageous when they have a good end goal. So- you could say- putting yourself in harms way to save others is courageous- jumping in a lions enclosure to save a child that had fallen in is brave. Jumping in to get a selfie with a lion is dumb and reckless and terrible- it will probably get the lion killed. We don't all view life as a positive thing. Plenty of us want to suicide because we don't want to be a part of this system.

And- while we're on courage- how many people live truly courageous lives in the first place? The majority of us just go with the flow. In this case- the capitalist, consummerist flow. I expect all of us will 'consume' a product today that was made by someone earning less than they need to survive. Those of us who eat meat or use animal products will kill off a few lives- maybe not even hummanely- we don't really know. We'll all add a few more steps to our carbon footprint. The truly courageous thing would be to sacrifice our own comfort to stop exploiting others and to fight against it. But- we likely won't. Especially those suffering with depression- which I imagine a lot of suicidal people are. A fair few here barely can make it out of bed in the morning.

Ok- you can certainly call someone brave for fighting against an illness- but- what are they fighting for? Presumably- to do it- they can see a good enough reason. What if we can't though? Does the reasoning then become dogmatic- as in 'You have to keep living because I say so. Life is beautiful and has meaning because I say so.' That's not a good enough reason. In fact it boils down to: 'You have to keep fighting for me.' But- to try and make you feel better about it, occassionally everyone will try and flatter you by saying how brave and strong you are.

I do understand why other people choose to hold on for the sake of others. Especially dependants. I'd say that was brave- especially if they are struggling with illness. That's pretty selfless. What if we have no one though? Sorry to be unkind but- what if the people in our lives have been abusive to us? Don't pro-lifers consider that some of these people we are supposed to be sticking around for are the very same people who contributed to us feeling suicidal in the first place?!! Either directly- through abuse or, passively- through neglect. But- we still 'owe' them- do we?

It's still 'courageous' of us to stick around and be a punchbag for them. It's still 'courageous' of us to stick around and be exploited or ignored. It would be fine if we could fight these injustices but we probably can't. For most people- the damage has already been done. If it's been carried out by narcissists or socio/pyschopaths- how do we even fight them? Basically- you don't! You do what you can to get away from them.

That's what CTB is- getting away from this shit show. To some extent, I don't really care if other people label it as cowardly. If they think this world is worth enduring- they can go ahead. If they want to label me a coward if I ever do CTB- they can go ahead. They clearly have good enough reasons to keep going- I'm happy for them. I would like them to consider though that I've already hung on 33 years with ideation for the sake of not upsetting my loved ones. I want them to bear that in mind before they call me selfish.

 

[FuneralCry]

Those pro-life people are just so deluded and brainwashed, I agree it really is so insulting when those who make the rational decision to cease existing to prevent all future unnecessary suffering are automatically labelled as ill.
To me wanting to die is all makes sense and is desirable, I hate how they also refuse to accept how many people just don't want to exist and that suicide is something relieving for them rather than a terrible, negative thing, as after all one cannot suffer from not existing. I admire those who manage to ctb as it really is so unnecessarily difficult to cease existing on our own terms.

 

[voc_89]

Someone CTB in my country yesterday and many comments on FB said he 'took the easy way out'. Smh. Normies have it easy. They will never understand or appreciate what we go through. And why we want to CTB ultimately.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Dealing with my problems is like taking a nerf gun to a nuclear war. Not a fair fight.

That way of viewing suicide is definitely the current fashion, that Susie didn't want to kill herself, that the "suicide demon" possessed her. Like you said it is intended to portray suicide in a less stigmatizing light and make it easier to accept, which we can appreciate even if it does actually ring as fully accurate in a lot of cases.

As much as there is a sense of defeat there is also a sense for a lot of us of active defiance, especially for those of us who have really been able to exercise very little agency over the course of our lives. That's something to celebrate, at least in my eyes.

 

[Scattered-Soul]

Someone CTB in my country yesterday and many comments on FB said he 'took the easy way out'. Smh. Normies have it easy. They will never understand or appreciate what we go through. And why we want to CTB ultimately.

God, that's so infuriating. I bet they've never tried to CTB even once to know how fucking hard it actually is. Not to mention that so many people out there struggle for years even decades before they end up committing suicide just because it feels inevitable at that point, wow so easy, am I right? But oh well, the people here are already aware of this. And yeah, as much as I don't wanna insult other people and claim that their lives are easier or anything like that, I'm genuinely jealous of their ignorance.