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noname223

Angelic
Aug 18, 2020
4,979
I know it is a huge difference pretending on the internet to have strength to participate in such a war or if you really do it in real life. I am just surprised how many Ukrainian men have the strength to defend their country against Putin. I probably would have not the courage to do that. But this is a difficult word because fighting in a war often means killing other human beings. This can also cause moral and ethical problems. I understand people who have a guilty conscience to fight in such a war. Noone should be forced to kill other humans. (Maybe to add one thing the Ukrainian men are more or less forced to fight. But they have a high engagement in it at least I have read that.)

On the other hand I admire this strength to defend your freedom and fight for democracy. I should not forget to mention that there are also Ukrainian women who fight. Personally I am probably too ill to fight. I am pretty sure I would get a psychosis. Many soldiers become mentally ill. This is one reason why I avoid to fight. Also even if I was mentally healthy. Many veterans are traumatized. Many get PTSD and they have (I think) a higher suicide rate. I would not be afraid of dying. Maybe it would be a painful death. But if it was a fast death I would also take that. However I would be really scared being tortured by the enemy if they caught me.

We live in postheroic societies. At least many in Western countries. I remember some replies when I asked in this forum whether people would sacrifice themselves if there was a terror attack. (Because suicidal people don't have much to lose.) Playing the hero is not popular anymore. We don't believe in such higher values. Maybe only when we watch Hollywood movies. But being the hero and sacrificing yourself for others is outdated. We believe in consumerism and hyperindividualism in our capitalistic countries. I think in my country we had huge debates about the ethical complexities of such a war while the Russians would invade Berlin. We just dislike doing the dirty work and patriotism is like a swear word in my country.

The most important is yourself. You who has to buy this or that in order to be happy. To feel superior to other people who cannot buy that because they are too poor. It is like a hamster wheel which often lets you become just more empty and tired from. This individualism divides our societies. There is no real community anymore. But replacing this with solely patriotism or religion can be dangerous too. But this is maybe a little bit off-topic.

Do you think you would fight in such a war? To defend your own country. I assume that maybe people in less developed countries rather tend to fight. As I said I think in highly capatilistic/western liberal countries war is hugely unpopular.
 
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Oblivion Access

Oblivion Access

I don't know anything
Jul 5, 2019
333
No, I am a coward. Not that choosing to fight doesn't necessarily make one a coward (rather prudent) but I personally am a coward, so I wouldn't. It's a bit like suicide in that way. Except one I feel exceptionally motivated for.
 
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JustAMatterOfTime

JustAMatterOfTime

Fragile
Mar 21, 2021
905
I would do more harm than good and am becoming more and more misanthropic as time goes on unfortunately, I would not fight to defend any country.
 
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bad luck

bad luck

Memento mori
Mar 2, 2021
772
One thing is momentum or courage, and quite another thing is having military training.

I would not fight in any war, however I would accept a duel to the death with swords.
 
Lost Magic

Lost Magic

Illuminated
May 5, 2020
3,052
I would fight if I had to. Yes. But if I survived, it wouldn't be long till I ctb anyway. I don't think I could life with the horrors of war on top of my own mental illness.
 
I

iforgotmyacc

Member
Jun 27, 2021
17
I love this poem about war:

The war will end. (Mahmoud Darwish)

The leaders will shake hands.
The old woman will keep waiting for her martyred son.
That girl will wait for her beloved husband.
And those children will wait for their hero father.
I don't know who sold our homeland
But I saw who paid the price.
 
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Symbiote

Global Mod
Oct 12, 2020
3,101
I don't believe in fighting in wars that my leaders got involved in. Now if America is being invaded, yeah, it's killing time.
 
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noaccount

Enlightened
Oct 26, 2019
1,099
"A country" is not the thing I care to defend.
HUMAN LIFE is.
 
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edu0z

edu0z

carried away by a moonlight shadow
Aug 25, 2021
552
I will not fight for my country, I will fight for my family.
 
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GrumpyFrog

GrumpyFrog

Exhausted
Aug 23, 2020
1,913
We live in postheroic societies
That's...not a bad thing for the most part.
patriotism is like a swear word in my country
Good.
in highly capatilistic/western liberal countries war is hugely unpopular
GOOD.

If Russians were simply more selfish and they all would firmly decide that they prefer McDonalds, CocaCola and Netflix to dying in mud, there probably wouldn't be a war. Furthermore, with the whole "8 years" thing, if Ukrainian men were all selfish and we would just let the goddamn "republics" be and instead maybe just did what Europe does now and focused on accepting refugees, maybe there wouldn't be a war. Not so sure about the latter though. If you don't feel like you would ever go to war, THANK YOU, the world needs more people like you.
The only reason why so many people in Ukraine are fighting against overwhelming odds, is because a) they are really angry and b) they don't really believe that surrendering or being a civilian will really improve their chances of survival, and taking into account the repeated collapse of humanitarian corridors with all those people being killed while trying to flee after being promised they will be able to flee...I guess opinion that everyone is equally doomed is not wrong. TV might be painting a prettier picture, but that's the magic of TV...

war often means killing other human beings
*always. War ALWAYS means killing other human beings. The point isn't sacrificing yourself, it's sending as many other people to hell as possible. That's why nobleness of the whole thing is debatable, but when you have no other choice it's tragically acceptable.

I don't know who sold our homeland
But I saw who paid the price.
Thank you for sharing this profound poem.
If I somehow make it out of this in one piece and ever face normalcy again, I'll tatoo these words on me and ask to write them on my grave.
 
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noaccount

Enlightened
Oct 26, 2019
1,099
@Nessie hey ordinary Russians are not really responsible for the atrocities of their government. They are being lied to on a mass scale about what's happening in Ukraine, and when they do find out the truth, if they protest even mildly / civilly, they're arrested beaten tortured and they and their families are blacklisted from employment.
And nevertheless, THEY ARE DOING SO ANY WAY! By the thousands in cities all across Russia! The brave Russian dissidents stand with the civilians in Ukraine regardless of the high price. Some are even going into exile in Turkey or Finland and denouncing their citizenship.
Sadly we can remember, even in the U.S.A., even the HUGE street mobilizations against the Iraq invasion did nothing to stop it. People can stand up and the war machine just grinds on. :(

Defend, in turn, the war-resistors from state repression - learn about and support the work of the Ovd-Info human rights group: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2019/08/28/a-little-human-rights-buggy
 
GrumpyFrog

GrumpyFrog

Exhausted
Aug 23, 2020
1,913
@noaccount yeah, I guess you're making a good point, there weren't any good options for Russians at any point either.
If we look at it this way, then there the central question of this thread doesn't really have a point. You don't really get to choose whether to fight in war...
 
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NearlyIrrelevantCake

NearlyIrrelevantCake

The Cake Is A Lie
Aug 12, 2021
1,243
As a cripple who can barely walk two blocks and can't even carry 10lbs, I would do more harm than good so that's a hard no for me.
 
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Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
20,711
No matter where I'm from I'm sure I couldn't even fight if I wanted to. Any side with me fighting for them would probably just lose because of how terrible I am at everything. That may be a bit of an exaggeration but I'm also diabetic and almost obese so it's not like I could become completely fit to fight overnight.

Even from a tactical standpoint I'd also fail because I have no brains whatsoever. When it comes to making decisions I also have really bad luck so any form of chance or probability will likely be against my favor and cause me to screw up horribly.
 
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WrongPlaceWrongTime

WrongPlaceWrongTime

Better never to have been
Jul 4, 2021
695
I would like to say yes, but realistically it depends whether there would be military training available to me to 'toughen' myself. Without that I would just be talking big game
 
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PreussenBlueJay

PreussenBlueJay

Too short for Frederick William I’s Guards
Jan 18, 2022
211
I watched a video of a firefight today. I wasn't there and I was terrified. I couldn't tell where the gunfire was coming from and I'm sure I would cower on the ground. I want a world without that where everyone has no reason to fight. So yeah I probably won't fight unless I'm mad and then I will guard a hallway and only blind fire wildly down the corridor or toss grenades endlessly from cover.
 
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K

KimKevorkian

Experienced
Feb 23, 2022
210
There are very few opportunities when one can be on the side of mostly right vs. mostly wrong. I would love to throw everything I had at the savages, assuming I wasn't going to make it out alive anyhow. Might as well take as many of the enemy as possible. They're just going to continue to kill the unarmed and defenseless. All it would take is for one brave Putin bodyguard to think, "This fucker's got to go!" Jesus. Where's the courage these days?
 
PreussenBlueJay

PreussenBlueJay

Too short for Frederick William I’s Guards
Jan 18, 2022
211
There are very few opportunities when one can be on the side of mostly right vs. mostly wrong. I would love to throw everything I had at the savages, assuming I wasn't going to make it out alive anyhow. Might as well take as many of the enemy as possible. They're just going to continue to kill the unarmed and defenseless. All it would take is for one brave Putin bodyguard to think, "This fucker's got to go!" Jesus. Where's the courage these days?
Need a Stauffenberg or Canaris in there. 😉
 
K

KimKevorkian

Experienced
Feb 23, 2022
210
Weren't those the guys who were in on the plot to kill Shitler?
 
Weebster

Weebster

Everyone is alone. Everyone is empty.
Mar 11, 2022
1,683
No. Modern society is atomized. I don't care about others beyond my family.
 
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summers

Visionary
Nov 4, 2020
2,495
Almost 400 million guns in private citizens hands in the USA, and the strongest military in the world. Fuck yeah I'm fighting for my country, and so would many other civilians. There's a reason it's been hundreds of years since a country attacked our mainland. You saw what happened to Japan when they were stupid enough to fuck with Pearl Harbor.

 
Sherri

Sherri

Archangel
Sep 28, 2020
13,794
No, im anti violence , sorry.
 
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S

summers

Visionary
Nov 4, 2020
2,495
No, if I were Ukrainian I would not have a preference between the US/EU/Zelensky and Russia/Putin.
As an American, I'd feel the same way if Russia were attacking America's shores right now. I would not fight for the Biden Administration, I would not die for what this country has become.
My priority would be keeping myself and loved ones safe and staying as uninvolved as possible in this conflict between two reprehensible factions.
I suggest the same for any Ukrainians or Russians who may be reading this. Do not die for any of these people. Even if you're actively suicidal, you're still worth more than that.
Heroic deaths are only worth something if they're for heroic causes. This is not one of them.
But the thing is, people who don't fight will be the first ones to come back after all the fighters have sacrificed and died for their country... I'm fine with people not fighting, but if you don't, stay gone - this isn't your home anymore.

Fighting isn't about who's in office, its about that ground beneath your feet being yours and your countrymen's, and not letting anyone take that from you. If that's not worth dying for, there really isn't anything that is.
 
GrumpyFrog

GrumpyFrog

Exhausted
Aug 23, 2020
1,913
I'm fine with people not fighting, but if you don't, stay gone - this isn't your home anymore.
That...is not really an option. No one will really let you just stay elsewhere after the war is over.
Fighting isn't about who's in office, its about that ground beneath your feet being yours and your countrymen's, and not letting anyone take that from you. If that's not worth dying for, there really isn't anything that is.
I'd say it isn't even really about that. And certainly not about Zelensky or EU - the situation is waaay past that stage. For most people who go there to fight it's as simple as "if they came here to kill me, my friends and my famiily then I prefer to meet them with an assault rifle in my hands and maybe save myself and my loved ones". It's that immediate and down to earth.
 
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