Would Benzocaine work as an alternative to SN?

[noalarms]

Benzocaine, a local anaesthetic used for toothaches and sore throats, appears to have similar effects to SN when taken to excess.

The FDA warns that the use of Benzocaine can occasionally result in methemoglobinemia, a fatal blood disorder that is also results when SN is ingested.

The listed symptoms are fatigue, confusion, headache, fast heart rate, and nausea. All very similar to SN

Have there been any cases of people using Benzocaine to ctb? Are there any harmful effects that would not appear during a regular SN overdose?

Even if this does not prove viable as a method, I think it is worth looking into drugs that cause methemoglobinemia other than SN.

Here is a video going over a case of unintentional Benzocaine OD for those who are interested.

Note that I am not recommending anyone try this; there is only anecdotal evidence that it is effective, and it may have painful side effects that I am not aware of.

 

[missingpeace]

I think getting SN would be much more easier, a doctor would never prescribe an anaesthetic.

 

[leeloosnow]

nice to see another chubbyemu fan either way

 

[FireWalkWithMe]

You always have to consider that the sole reason SN has availability is it is a curing salt. A food additive. Otherwise it wouldn't even be under so much discussion, it would be like any other poison. Potentially useful but not especially relevant except to a handful of people that have access.

 

[LiesAndLigatures]

Oral anesthetic sprays and creams containing benzocaine are available OTC. However, it takes longer for methemoglobin levels to reach fatal levels with benzocaine than SN. It can definitely kill you, but you may experience uncomfortable symptoms for much longer before loss of consciousness, as compared to the recommended dose of SN. Here is a link to a great video about a case report involving benzocaine throat spray: Link

 

[hapiniuier]

Here is a link to a great video about a case report involving benzocaine throat spray: Link

You and OP literally linked the same video.

 

[Euthanza]

I plan to use Orajel or Chloraseptic as mouth/tongue numbing agent before taking SN, it shall reduce the chance of vomiting. Both have benzocaine and methomoglobin product warning.

Further concern is about dosing, SN has more established evidences and knowledge that it works.

 

[downndone2]

I can't imagine obtaining and swallowing all the benzocaine that would be necessary to use if this works.

 

[nozomu]

It's just better to go with something that we know works, this seems risky. The stuff put in PPeH is typically there bc it's been vetted extensively

 

[lionetta12]

Benzocaine, a local anaesthetic used for toothaches and sore throats, appears to have similar effects to SN when taken to excess.

The FDA warns that the use of Benzocaine can occasionally result in methemoglobinemia, a fatal blood disorder that is also results when SN is ingested.

The listed symptoms are fatigue, confusion, headache, fast heart rate, and nausea. All very similar to SN

Have there been any cases of people using Benzocaine to ctb? Are there any harmful effects that would not appear during a regular SN overdose?

Even if this does not prove viable as a method, I think it is worth looking into drugs that cause methemoglobinemia other than SN.

Here is a video going over a case of unintentional Benzocaine OD for those who are interested.

Note that I am not recommending anyone try this; there is only anecdotal evidence that it is effective, and it may have painful side effects that I am not aware of.

I got benzocaine prescriptions and I can't imagine how long it would take for me to hoarder enough of it for it to make me CTB, I don't think I'd want to CTB on it anyway, doesn't taste very good, at least the one I get.

 

[noalarms]

It's just better to go with something that we know works, this seems risky. The stuff put in PPeH is typically there bc it's been vetted extensively

I agree, but the only ways to find out if something works is to either (a) try it or (b) find enough examples of people unintentionally ODing on it.

Oral anesthetic sprays and creams containing benzocaine are available OTC. However, it takes longer for methemoglobin levels to reach fatal levels with benzocaine than SN. It can definitely kill you, but you may experience uncomfortable symptoms for much longer before loss of consciousness, as compared to the recommended dose of SN. Here is a link to a great video about a case report involving benzocaine throat spray: Link

If the case that Chubbyemu talks about happened exactly the way he describes it, then it can work fairly quickly. The issue is that his videos are just inspired by real life cases. CB, or whoever, doesn't actually exist.

I think getting SN would be much more easier, a doctor would never prescribe an anaesthetic.

It's OTC (in the U.S. at least). There are prescription drugs that induce methemoglobinemia though.

 

[The Howling Void]

I was able to buy 100 grams of pure benzocaine powder. It does not dissolve easily in water. I don't want to use hydrogen sulfide because of the dangers to others. But that may be my way if benzocaine won't work. I would love to know if anyone in chemistry could tell me how much to take and how to dissolve it into a drinkable solution.

 

[orca87]

The FDA warns that the use of Benzocaine can occasionally result in methemoglobinemia, a fatal blood disorder that is also results when SN is ingested.

When researching medicines for ctb, primarily based on case reports of unintentional fatality, remember that drug approval processes focus mainly on safety.

A "common" (or "frequent") side-effect of a therapeutic means that it is experienced in 1% to 10% of cases; a rare side-effect between 0.01% and 0.1%.

Any attempt to amplify these side-effects by means of overdosing is very risky – that's why most ctb attempts with prescription drugs fail.

Pharmacology, like aviation, works with incredibly small safety margins.

 

[Rumi]

When researching medicines for ctb, primarily based on case reports of unintentional fatality, remember that drug approval processes focus mainly on safety.

A "common" (or "frequent") side-effect of a therapeutic means that it is experienced in 1% to 10% of cases; a rare side-effect between 0.01% and 0.1%.

Any attempt to amplify these side-effects by means of overdosing is very risky – that's why most ctb attempts with prescription drugs fail.

Pharmacology, like aviation, works with incredibly small safety margins.

True - but what we have to remember is that methemoglobinemia is only a rare side-effect of benzocaine use when it is taken as recommended; taking a strong overdose could increase the risk of methemoglobinemia considerably.

I can't find the source anymore - but I remember reading a report by a group of American toxicologists arguing that a dose of benzocaine exceeding 40mg per kilo of body weight should be considered an emergency by poison control centers. Given that the average adult is 70 kilos, it would take at least 2800mg of benzocaine to experience effects comparable to SN. OTC sprays contain a maximum 20% benzocaine - given that each spray contains roughly 50mg of 20% benzocaine solution, it would take close to three hundred sprays for the average person to experience methemoglobinemia - that's only 3 bottles. I would consider this as a method if pharmacies in my country stocked benzocaine products.

 

[orca87]

True - but what we have to remember is that methemoglobinemia is only a rare side-effect of benzocaine use when it is taken as recommended; taking a strong overdose could increase the risk of methemoglobinemia considerably.

Sure – all I'm saying is that something is an increased risk, doesn't make it a reliable method.

I can't find the source anymore - but I remember reading a report by a group of American toxicologists arguing that a dose of benzocaine exceeding 40mg per kilo of body weight should be considered an emergency by poison control centers. Given that the average adult is 70 kilos, it would take at least 2800mg of benzocaine to experience effects comparable to SN. OTC sprays contain a maximum 20% benzocaine - given that each spray contains roughly 50mg of 20% benzocaine solution, it would take close to three hundred sprays for the average person to experience methemoglobinemia - that's only 3 bottles. I would consider this as a method if pharmacies in my country stocked benzocaine products.

If 10% or even less would die from such a poisoning, then every toxicologist would claim this should be considered an emergency. This is the scale of safety/risk assessment the medical professionals deal with. Far from reliable for our purposes.

 

[Rumi]

Sure – all I'm saying is that something is an increased risk, doesn't make it a reliable method.



If 10% or even less would die from such a poisoning, then every toxicologist would claim this should be considered an emergency. This is the scale of safety/risk assessment the medical professionals deal with. Far from reliable for our purposes.

40mg was the upper limit - the report recommended that poison centers consider a dose of methemoglobinemia over 22mg/kg to be serious enough to go to the emergency room, implying that a dose exceeding 40mg would be far more serious.

It's not like SN where the recommended dose is guaranteed to kill you if you follow the correct procedure, but I would say that the chance that taking a 40mg/kg dose would kill you is potentially much higher than 10%; you could easily take much more than 40mg/kilo, as you wouldn't be drinking the solution, but spraying onto your gums and tongue, and thus you wouldn't necessarily need to take AEs. It wouldn't be that much more expensive than the SN regimen either - just far less reliable.

 

[Tsunami]

The ld50 of benzocaine is approximately 3000mg/kg, for a 70kg person this represents 210g. Benzocaine is very poorly soluble, I imagined the idea of putting the powder in yogurts and ingesting it. I found benzocaine powder in 500g format on a site, could someone with knowledge tell me if this method is viable? ..