Women with BPD please answer. I need some insight.

[Maudlin]

A hypothetical question:
Have you ever had a loved one stick with you for a decade?
Someone who never tried to "control" you, never tried to stop you from going out or seeing friends or family, but instead would try to help you deal with your personality issues alongside you, no matter how many times you pushed them away?
Someone who always kept at least one vehicle running, with all the freedom that entails for you?
Someone who stayed true to you, no matter how many times you accused them otherwise?
Someone who helped raise your kids, bought you a house (in your name), to ensure you'd never be homeless?
Have you ever had someone help you recover through chronic illness, to see you cured? Multiple illnesses?
Help you through chronic, disabling recurrent pain?
Walk the road of recovering from addiction with you?

If you can answer "yes" to all of the above... what would posses you to belittle such a person verbally, abuse them physically, slander them, cheat on them and/or lie to them and drive them into the street as soon as they became disabled?

If such a foolish, misguided person existed in your life and actually still loved you after all this, how could they communicate with you in such a way to make you see through your illusions, and quit causing this person pain? Do you even think it would be possible for anyone to achieve such communication with you?

Once such a person is disabled, would you ever even entertain the idea that person is anything but worthless to you?
Why or why not?

I'll read anything you'd care to write. Thank you.

 

[noaccount]

Are you saying that you yourself were belittling and abusing someone who stuck by you and supported you?
I'm glad you're rethinking or looking for ways to change your actions if that's what you're talking about. I'm not totally clear on what angle you're approaching this from but it sounds complicated and tricky for sure. We're listening.

 

[Life_and_Death]

it takes time. i found the biggest thing for me is the other person needs to have an understanding that while its being said to them, its not entirely directed at them. but more so a mixture of life experiences and emotions.

how could they communicate with you in such a way to make you see through your illusions, and quit causing this person pain?

time and reminders. at first he thought i didnt believe he loved me but now he understands that its a self reflection and nothing really to do with him. i have to ask and double check and he reminds me.

 

[MidnightDream]

I don't know if it's just the way I'm reading this post, but this almost seems attacking and stereotyping of women with BPD.

It's pretty well known that one distinct element of the disorder can involve unstable personal relationships and emotional instability, which can make it difficult for some people with the disorder to maintain healthy romantic relationships. But that does not and should not automatically involve the abuse or harm of another person. If it's got to that point, it's important that they're encouraged to seek therapy, and that the behaviour is not enabled.

Belittle a person verbally, abuse them physically, slander them, cheat on them and/or lie to them and drive them into the street as soon as they became disabled?

Literally none of this is acceptable, and the diagnosis of a disorder shouldn't ever be used as an excuse. A reason, yes, but not an excuse. It's not acceptable to cause physical or emotional harm to others, a diagnosis of BPD doesn't change that.

I'm not sure if this is your experience with someone with BPD and that's why it's coming across the way it is, but either way, it feels important to state very clearly that every woman who has it will have different experiences and will struggle with certain elements more than others. As someone with the diagnosis, this isn't something I have ever really experienced, and so I don't particularly appreciate being asked the question you asked. Just because I have a diagnosis, does not make me any less self-aware, or any more abusive than others. I'm married, and my relationship is probably one of the most stable parts of my life. Do I have my moments? Absolutely. But we deal with them together, we communicate, and if it ever got to a point where my behaviour I could be considered abusive, I would expect him to leave me and I would seek therapy.

If this is your experience, I would leave. You don't deserve to be treated less than or abused or anything that you've described above. Her having BPD doesn't make any of that acceptable.

 

[Life_and_Death]

A reason, yes, but not an excuse.

considering they are concerned about it im going to guess they probably want to change it however it cant be changed on the spot just because its wrong. it takes a lot of time, understanding and help.

 

[MidnightDream]

considering they are concerned about it im going to guess they probably want to change it however it cant be changed on the spot just because its wrong. it takes a lot of time, understanding and help.

I don't know, I can't tell what angle they've come from

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

A hypothetical question:
Have you ever had a loved one stick with you for a decade?
Someone who never tried to "control" you, never tried to stop you from going out or seeing friends or family, but instead would try to help you deal with your personality issues alongside you, no matter how many times you pushed them away?
Someone who always kept at least one vehicle running, with all the freedom that entails for you?
Someone who stayed true to you, no matter how many times you accused them otherwise?
Someone who helped raise your kids, bought you a house (in your name), to ensure you'd never be homeless?
Have you ever had someone help you recover through chronic illness, to see you cured? Multiple illnesses?
Help you through chronic, disabling recurrent pain?
Walk the road of recovering from addiction with you?

If you can answer "yes" to all of the above... what would posses you to belittle such a person verbally, abuse them physically, slander them, cheat on them and/or lie to them and drive them into the street as soon as they became disabled?

What on earth could possess a disordered person unable of empathizing with others to abuse a person they have no respect for?

If such a foolish, misguided person existed in your life and actually still loved you after all this, how could they communicate with you in such a way to make you see through your illusions, and quit causing this person pain? Do you even think it would be possible for anyone to achieve such communication with you?

I have a better question, a question for the "lover", why would you love a terrible person? Doesn't that make you a terrible person? What is wrong with YOU? Because you are the one with the illusions here i'm afraid.

There is nothing romantic about dedicating yourself to serving the needs of a monster.

Your love is not worth anything if you let yourself be manipulated into giving it. The people unable of loving understand this, and hate you for it. They will take everything you have to give and hate you for giving it.

 

[noaccount]

Maudlin, just to let you know, JSTD is neither a woman nor someone with psychiatric labels so it may be helpful to understand his rather trolling replies in this context.

We understand that - contrary to the ignorant comment above - a psychiatric label does not mean someone is an abuser, and we are here to talk.

 

[Life_and_Death]

I don't know, I can't tell what angle they've come from

as someone thats "abusive" because of my bpd, from an inside perspective its really difficult to deal with. one of the biggest things about bpd is extreme emotions. so, take something that would really really anger you. or make you bawl. and thats what its like all the time. dealing with such a high lvl of everything going on is disorienting and overwhelming. it also doesnt stop. 24/7 something is going on.
my SO left me because i was "abusive" but he came back because after thinking about it he realized i didnt mean it. this is the thing i use to draw a line between my mother and i. is yes, i hurt people sometimes, but unlike her i say sorry. and thats where it turns from an excuse to a reason. (assuming its a legit sorry obviously)
a more positive representation. i really really love my cats, and i couldnt help literally smothering them with love. obviously they didnt like this and would leave so over time i had to teach myself to calm down. that if i only smother them a little bit we can compromise and they wont leave. because of this understanding i can even accomplish "recovery" with my cats. sometimes im a little more rough with them then i should be (they got into something or whatever and ive already told them 50 times). but i always say sorry afterwards and im working on. because of this even though im technically "abusive" my cats still love me and work with me.
after my SO came back i explained to him (and ive also explained to my husband) that my actions have little to do with you even though its "directed" at you. if im asking if you love me, its not because i think you dont, its because i dont understand why you do. when im yelling, i actually mean to be lower then i am. i mean what i say but not really with all the swears and yelling, and depending on what it is, worded differently. but it helps release a lot of stress too, so its difficult to just "tone it down". but they understand and arent taking it as personally, instead giving me hugs and trying to make it better because they know i didnt mean it.
while i understand someone wanting to leave and i wouldnt fault them for it, all id ask is that people blame the illness, not the person. because of my anger ive been hating myself a lot lately, which i think has actually been reflected on the site (ive been saying f'en instead of fucking. see? little steps). we dont need outside people pointing out our flaws, we're typically more then well enough aware (at least if we're questioning things and trying to fix them).

i think i was kind of all over the place and its just my personal dealing with bpd, however considering i relate with what OP posted (aside from the questions because i havent dealt with any of that.) im gonna guess im probably not too far off. and even if i am, youll at least have an understanding that its not always black and white

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

We understand that - contrary to the ignorant comment above - a psychiatric label does not mean someone is an abuser, and we are here to talk.

If you can answer "yes" to all of the above... what would posses you to belittle such a person verbally, abuse them physically, slander them, cheat on them and/or lie to them and drive them into the street as soon as they became disabled?

Are you here to talk or to join the gaslighting party?

 

[Life_and_Death]

a disordered person unable of empathizing with others to abuse a person they have no respect for

Maudlin, just to let you know, JSTD is neither a woman nor someone with psychiatric labels so it may be helpful to understand his rather trolling replies in this context.

We understand that - contrary to the ignorant comment above - a psychiatric label does not mean someone is an abuser, and we are here to talk.

considering this comment is the exact opposite of what bpd is, im gonna agree with you @noaccount

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

considering this comment is the exact opposite of what bpd is, im gonna agree with you @noaccount

It most certainly is not. I suggest you educate yourself on the issue. Cluster B disorders overlap and it's not uncommon for a BPD person to meet the diagnostic criteria for NPD, HPD or ASPD.

 

[Life_and_Death]

It most certainly is not. I suggest you educate yourself on the issue. Cluster B disorders overlap and it's not uncommon for a BPD person to meet the diagnostic criteria for NPD, HPD or ASPD.

not every time. youre mixing 2 different diagnosis. you cant add something on to another and then say "see the other one is like this" when in fact it is being caused by the other diagnosis NOT bpd.
edit: although thanks for making me feel better by realizing what im not

 

[achromatic]

Its intresting that you claim to be asking for insight with such a leading question.
People get abused by a person not their diagnosis.

 

[Life_and_Death]

People get abused by a person not their diagnosis.

agreed but their diagnosis can play them like a puppet. the difference is whether or not theyre trying to change. if theyre not trying to change then i agree, its abuse and youre using it as an excuse. but if youre honestly trying to change then leaving the person alone on the floor to pick themselves up, isnt going to help fix the situation. if the nonbpd person cant handle then leave, im also not saying you should jeopardize yourself to help someone else, but if theyre honestly trying to change then at least dont blame them, blame whats inside.
you wouldnt tell a person with anxiety to get over it.
edit: addiction might have been a better example

 

[noaccount]

Oh my fucking god you guys it is NOT THAT HARD to understand that the only thing ALL PEOPLE WITH ANY PSYCH LABEL have in common is:

THAT SOMEONE WITH POWER CHOSE TO CALL THEM A NAME..

Jesus fucking christ it's not that complicated come on I know you can do it.

How many times do I have to spoon-feed people and walk them through the god damn baby steps of basic critical thinking here FUCK.

Psychiatric diagnosis 'scientifically meaningless'

A new study has concluded that psychiatric diagnoses are scientifically worthless as tools to identify discrete mental health disorders.

www.sciencedaily.com

Who Decides What a Mental Disorder Is? - NYRA

The definition of a mental disorder is a “dysfunction in the psychological, biological, or developmental processes underlying mental functioning.” Unfortunately, this definition is vague and leaves much room for debate and criticism. Since it is not entirely clear what “dysfunction” means, the...

www.youthrights.org

Predictably, Amber Heard Just Got Diagnosed With BPD and HPD

Official home of VictimFocus and Dr Jessica Taylor. Dedicated to fighting victim blaming of adults and children who have been affected by sexual violence, abuse and trauma. Delivering consultancy, training, psychology of abuse, resources and e-learning for professionals and public all over the...

www.victimfocus.org.uk

Abuse Cannot Be Blamed on Mental Illness

Research shows abusers are no more likely to be mentally ill than others By DomesticShelters.org Abusers love excuses. They only yelled at you because they were drunk. They only hit you because they were hit as children. They’re only abusive because they’re depressed. It’s not their fault. Survivors

hydecounty-hotline.org

 

[Maudlin]

Are you saying that you yourself were belittling and abusing someone who stuck by you and supported you?
I'm glad you're rethinking or looking for ways to change your actions if that's what you're talking about. I'm not totally clear on what angle you're approaching this from but it sounds complicated and tricky for sure. We're listening.

No. Nothing of the sort.

Though I'm often quite blunt, and sensitive types don't like that, I get no joy nor see any percentage in belittling people.

Normally, people who arouse my contempt I will have nothing to do with, at all. Literally.

Think "not worth the time of day". I literally wouldn't tell such a person the time.

Why waste my breath talking shit?

I'm asking for insight on how to effectively communicate with someone diagnosed with BPD, who has spent the last 72+ hours belittling a person who, (in my opinion) is the best thing that ever happened to her, and who wants it to keep happening.

He loves her, despite her often abrasive nature. Now that he's disabled, he can't care for her in the manner she's grown accustomed to, and she berates him constantly for it.

Labels are labels, stereotypes are stereotypes. So many people become fascinated with a "diagnosis" given to them. She was given a diagnosis of BPD, and lately she wears it like a badge. Granted, in certain ways her behavior has always been too extreme for polite company but that was an attractive feature more often than not.
With his disability, she has turned malicious against him.

The stereotypical "features" of BPD are common enough to have been listed in in the DSM for a few editions, now and I know a segment of the folks here have had that diagnosis. I'm looking for commonalities among women (because women don't think like men do, and vice versa) with this diagnosis ("label" or not, this pattern of behavior is a stereotypical pattern, and common among humanity in general), and I need insight into the nuance of the condition for the sake of better communication, in general.

As an example: When someone makes a statement that could be deemed critical, the harmful tendency for the BPD type personality is to assume it is a personal attack rather than a general comment or even a joke. Fear of abandonment common to BPD can lead such a personality type to magnify the critical aspect of such a comment to become an obsession... often resulting in temperament or actions wholly inappropriate to the situation at hand. This, from my observation, is what leads to the majority of relationship issues common among BPD personality types. In short, BPD makes "mountains out of molehills" (to use an old expression) often leading to rage and impulsive behavior. Taking general comments personally, and taking offense to them is common among BPD personality types.

I'm looking for things I've missed... personal experiences from women with BPD and self-observations to help me understand beyond what I already do. It's a tough nut to crack.

Tougher still, "self awareness" isn't a common feature listed in the DSM for BPD, nor is it a common feature in humanity, in general. Could be I'm just spinning my wheels, here. It's worth a shot, though. As long as I'm still breathing, I will continue to learn.

Does that make sense?

it takes time. i found the biggest thing for me is the other person needs to have an understanding that while its being said to them, its not entirely directed at them. but more so a mixture of life experiences and emotions.

time and reminders. at first he thought i didnt believe he loved me but now he understands that its a self reflection and nothing really to do with him. i have to ask and double check and he reminds me.

Thank you!

I've often noticed in the past the internal dialog she's got is the biggest issue. It's when she externalizes it on to me that I realize just how awful that must be... it's like getting a front-row seat into someone elses' own personal hell.

Your comment is a great reminder. Thank you.

 

[Life_and_Death]

Thank you!

I've often noticed in the past the internal dialog she's got is the biggest issue. It's when she externalizes it on to me that I realize just how awful that must be... it's like getting a front-row seat into someone elses' own personal hell.

Your comment is a great reminder. Thank you.

ive found buspar to help with it. id doesnt stop anything. the feelings and everything are still there, but its like theyre in another room vs yelling in my ear making it a little easier to deal with. it might not be the answer for you as i have read about other people that tried buspar and it didnt help (of course what were they taking it for? i originally got mine for anxiety and it doesnt do shit for that lol) but, it may help.
if shes ok with it, give her hugs for me. dealing with this is hell and she needs them
ive been talking to my bf about mine for the last couple hours lol. it might take a while and there may be ups and downs during where it seems like youre losing her again, but just keep reminding her. its like i told my bf, as long as we're ok ill be ok.
edit: i should also add no side effects. growing up when i realized i was depressed the first thing i said is "i dont want drugs. i dont want to fake happy. im either happy or im not" but aside from actually understanding that people can think of nothing, i dont feel anything. its still all me.

 

[Maudlin]

I don't know if it's just the way I'm reading this post, but this almost seems attacking and stereotyping of women with BPD.

Boy, I wish I was more efficient with this platform. Please ignore any freakish mistakes I might make.

To your point, No. This is not an attack at all... though I understand why you might interpret it that way.

It's a call for aid in understanding.

In order to resolve many of the core issues present in this woman that I recognized even before I bothered to read up on BPD (I've always been the type that doesn't give much credit to non-science, or nonsense- and shysters I can't abide. There are many shysters in the psychology field, in my experience) I attempted to the best of my ability to re-assure her in a concrete, unassailable manner (targeting personal security an safety, love, personal autonomy, etc.).

I have found some of the information psychology has produced is valuable for recognizing stereotypes I'm unfamiliar with, personally... and I noticed this right off as soon as I started reading up on it and found examples consistent with my own observations of folks, over the years.

It's pretty well known that one distinct element of the disorder can involve unstable personal relationships and emotional instability, which can make it difficult for some people with the disorder to maintain healthy romantic relationships. But that does not and should not automatically involve the abuse or harm of another person. If it's got to that point, it's important that they're encouraged to seek therapy, and that the behaviour is not enabled.

Yeah, it is pretty well known relationships are often unstable and difficult for such folks.

Though not good, I don't think "abuse or harm" should necessarily be a place to draw such lines. I've been in three serious, committed relationships in my life, and countless flings over the years... and rarely have I ever been with a woman who wasn't willing to hit a man, when she got angry. Was I harmed? Not really. Even now, physically wrecked as I am, I can block, dodge and disarm folks much better than guys half my age. The women that act like they want to go toe-to-toe are usually just comic relief, if anything. A good, strong hug and "there, there" in a mocking tone serves well to hide my laughter.

Of course, there was a Finnish Olympic athlete that got me in a good scissor lock once, but that turned me on, more than anything.

In my experience all women verbally "abuse" men- if such a thing exists. They're just words... they ain't bullets, or even fists. Just words that represent ideas that one might find distasteful, but still... why get too uptight about strange warbles emitted in the course of someones exhaled breath? It's nothing. Does that make sense?

In my experience "therapy" is often damaging. Sometimes irredeemably so. The meds people are given for expressing their thoughts and feelings are no joke. Not only this forum, but all of society is littered with the wreckage of the casualties of psychiatry. I would never attempt to corner some woman into such a treacherous field simply because she got pissed and tried to take a swing at me, or crafted a colorful stream of expletives in my general direction. lol

Not "enabling" the behavior is the tricky part... especially with BPD types. Like with children, one shouldn't reward bad behavior... but at the same time attempt to address the underlying emotional/life issue with some type of support. That "support" alone seems to be an issue... the nuance is tricky.
After all, adult BPD types aren't children, even if they act as such. They're adults, with issues... not innocents who are wet behind the ears. I think that's why I started this thread. I need to better gauge the nuance between enabling and addressing underlying issues. It's a tough nut to crack. I feel like a sucker.

As someone with the diagnosis, this isn't something I have ever really experienced, and so I don't particularly appreciate being asked the question you asked. Just because I have a diagnosis, does not make me any less self-aware, or any more abusive than others. I'm married, and my relationship is probably one of the most stable parts of my life. Do I have my moments? Absolutely. But we deal with them together, we communicate, and if it ever got to a point where my behaviour I could be considered abusive, I would expect him to leave me and I would seek therapy.

Thank you.

Again, this is no attack and your appreciation or lack of it for the question was not the point of asking it. Thank you for your insightful answer, Your answer, and those of some others here is exactly the kind of response I was looking for.

Thanks for taking your time and giving me something real despite any "bad taste" my question might have given you.

 

[noaccount]

Ok @Maudlin thanks for the context - so, you see this woman being abusive.
So, if you care about avoiding stereotypes, you could refrain from addressing women with this label, as a group, as if they will have, or relate to, or be able to answer for, this same abusive mindset.

Or, at least,question the implications of asking this about "women with this label", and how they're different from the implications of "PEOPLE WITH THIS LABEL."

Here's a hint:

"Once you're diagnosed, they've really got you. Laugh too much, cry to much, talk too much, don't talk enough -- or, god forbid, get angry -- and the people around you think you're getting 'sick' again."

Another helpful clue about what's going on with this dynamic:

"To determine whether gender is a powerful influence on perceived characteristics, a videotape of an infant labeled as either a boy or a girl was shown to 101 male and 89 female college students in introductory psychology classes. After watching the videotape, subjects completed a rating scale assessing the infant's characteristics. When labeled female, the [same] baby was rated as significantly less sturdy (that is, as being softer, more finely featured, smaller, and more delicate) than when labeled male."

So, we see how adults are socialized to read and judge the exact same behaviors extremely differently when seeing them presented by men versus women!

Yet another clue:
How the same behaviors will be judged very differently based on whether the observer is told the person is a psychiatric patient or not!

Rosenhan experiment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If your disabled man friend is being abused he needs support in safety-planning and boundary-setting or exit-planning if he wants it. Not for people to theorize how a psych diagnosis could 'explain' the person abusing him.

 

[Maudlin]

If this is your experience, I would leave. You don't deserve to be treated less than or abused or anything that you've described above. Her having BPD doesn't make any of that acceptable.

I won't leave, unless I'm forced... or I decide to check out. I made a commitment, and I don't break my word once it's given.

If I check out, or (ctb) as folks here like to say, she'll still have everything I promised her... except me. I'm sure it wouldn't help her abandonment issues... in fact that's one of the few things keeping me on this plane. lurking on this forum has helped bring me to a point where I understand my reasons a bit better, and her abandonment issues are one of them.

The pain is pretty damn bad, though. Such lack has never been in my nature before. Might just be time to do something completely selfish... so much of my time anymore is spent so self-centered, anyway. My pain, my distraction from the pain, my lack of sleep, my weakness, me me me.

I don't like this foreigner I've become, and I don't think it's helping her, either.

What on earth could possess a disordered person unable of empathizing with others to abuse a person they have no respect for?

Lol. Lmao.

You have an incisive wit that I often can appreciate.

I have a better question, a question for the "lover", why would you love a terrible person? Doesn't that make you a terrible person? What is wrong with YOU? Because you are the one with the illusions here i'm afraid.

There is nothing romantic about dedicating yourself to serving the needs of a monster.

Your love is not worth anything if you let yourself be manipulated into giving it. The people unable of loving understand this, and hate you for it. They will take everything you have to give and hate you for giving it.

Here's a question for you, swingin' D... have you ever met a person who wasn't terrible?

We all have our illusions. I'm pretty sure that loving someone isn't what makes me terrible... what makes me terrible is the things I've done to undeserving folks out of hate, contempt, greed, lust... or just for shits and giggles. Never love.

Monsters are often the only creatures that can serve the needs of monsters. We, all of us... monsters, psychopaths, megalomaniacs... "normies" (whatever that is) are all thrown into this life together to make of it what we will. Or what we won't, rather... for some who frequent this board. We had no choice, yet we have choices and we make them. Does that make sense?

Every time you decide to interact with anything or any one you are manipulating. Literally:
Manipulate

1. To move, arrange, operate, or control by the hands or another body part or by mechanical means, especially in a skillful manner: synonym: handle.
2. To influence or manage shrewdly or deviously.
3. To tamper with or falsify for personal gain.

Interaction, rather than diversity is truly the spice of life in my opinion. It's the fluffy cake and the frosting on top.

My love is worth exactly the value I place on it, nothing more, nothing less. It has value only because it has value to me. It has saved me from becoming more of a monster than I have already been, and sometimes it has actually been appreciated by others, as well- that's nice, when it happens... but my loves' only value that matters is to me.

Your last two observations seem to refer almost exclusively to psychopaths. I've known quite a few, and you're right for the most part. That said, such people can be quite efficient to work with, in ways few others can... and I appreciate and hold in high regard some of them for it.

Stay comfy, D swinger.

Maudlin, just to let you know, JSTD is neither a woman nor someone with psychiatric labels so it may be helpful to understand his rather trolling replies in this context.

We understand that - contrary to the ignorant comment above - a psychiatric label does not mean someone is an abuser, and we are here to talk.

Trolls are people too... except when they're bots. lol

JSTD has what many may find an acerbic take on things, but I can appreciate it. In my mind, contrary ideas and opinions are welcome- if for no other reason than to arrive at the fundamentals of abstract concepts, unclouded by personal bias.

That, and I can't help but laugh at a good "trolling".

That being said, does it make you wonder why a normie male would feel the need to respond to a thread that specifically includes only BPD females as it's targeted demographic? lol

Psychiatric labels are what they are. "Abuse", even is just a label for behavior of a sort. What one considers abuse might be, to another, just good kink.

I'm glad you're here. This kind of interaction is sorely needed to help me arrange my thoughts... and I thank you all for it.

as someone thats "abusive" because of my bpd, from an inside perspective its really difficult to deal with. one of the biggest things about bpd is extreme emotions. so, take something that would really really anger you. or make you bawl. and thats what its like all the time. dealing with such a high lvl of everything going on is disorienting and overwhelming. it also doesnt stop. 24/7 something is going on.
my SO left me because i was "abusive" but he came back because after thinking about it he realized i didnt mean it. this is the thing i use to draw a line between my mother and i. is yes, i hurt people sometimes, but unlike her i say sorry. and thats where it turns from an excuse to a reason. (assuming its a legit sorry obviously)
a more positive representation. i really really love my cats, and i couldnt help literally smothering them with love. obviously they didnt like this and would leave so over time i had to teach myself to calm down. that if i only smother them a little bit we can compromise and they wont leave. because of this understanding i can even accomplish "recovery" with my cats. sometimes im a little more rough with them then i should be (they got into something or whatever and ive already told them 50 times). but i always say sorry afterwards and im working on. because of this even though im technically "abusive" my cats still love me and work with me.
after my SO came back i explained to him (and ive also explained to my husband) that my actions have little to do with you even though its "directed" at you. if im asking if you love me, its not because i think you dont, its because i dont understand why you do. when im yelling, i actually mean to be lower then i am. i mean what i say but not really with all the swears and yelling, and depending on what it is, worded differently. but it helps release a lot of stress too, so its difficult to just "tone it down". but they understand and arent taking it as personally, instead giving me hugs and trying to make it better because they know i didnt mean it.
while i understand someone wanting to leave and i wouldnt fault them for it, all id ask is that people blame the illness, not the person. because of my anger ive been hating myself a lot lately, which i think has actually been reflected on the site (ive been saying f'en instead of fucking. see? little steps). we dont need outside people pointing out our flaws, we're typically more then well enough aware (at least if we're questioning things and trying to fix them).

i think i was kind of all over the place and its just my personal dealing with bpd, however considering i relate with what OP posted (aside from the questions because i havent dealt with any of that.) im gonna guess im probably not too far off. and even if i am, youll at least have an understanding that its not always black and white

That insightful little comment helped me more than you know.

"all over the place"? perhaps. But I think I got a glimmer of what it's like inside your mind. Thank you for pulling back the curtains, that I might see.

Seriously. Thank you.

 

[Maudlin]

Its intresting that you claim to be asking for insight with such a leading question.
People get abused by a person not their diagnosis.

If it seems leading, it's because I'm both personally invested, and not devoid of emotion.


People get abused by people, true. Consider this:

Society consists of people.
People build bureaucracies to control aspects of their collective society (governing).
Bureaucracies create rules that serve their bureaucratic governing function.
A "diagnosis" is a function of the bureaucratic rule-making process.
The rules made by the bureaucracy can be as abusive if not more abusive than the people directly engaging in abuse.

I can't help but think of the Russian term "apparatchik"... a person, just a "functionary", really- who may be a generally decent person on the whole... and yet as a course of the function of their job they do immeasurable damage.

Picture a person, not an abusive person, yet as a function of their "job" responsible for abuse. Does that make sense?

In psychiatry the diagnosis is the preliminary to the prescription. The prescription claims to aid "imbalances" that have not been proven to exist... that's why psych patients tend to switch meds so often, unaware of the damage being done to them by each chemical. It's imprecise as all hell, and the damage is often irreparable.

Even therapies sans medication can be abusive, and include incarceration and coercion, even electroshock if you simply say the wrong things. It's a nightmare. An abusive one.

Oh my fucking god you guys it is NOT THAT HARD to understand that the only thing ALL PEOPLE WITH ANY PSYCH LABEL have in common is:

THAT SOMEONE WITH POWER CHOSE TO CALL THEM A NAME..

Jesus fucking christ it's not that complicated come on I know you can do it.

How many times do I have to spoon-feed people and walk them through the god damn baby steps of basic critical thinking here FUCK.

Psychiatric diagnosis 'scientifically meaningless'

A new study has concluded that psychiatric diagnoses are scientifically worthless as tools to identify discrete mental health disorders.

www.sciencedaily.com

Who Decides What a Mental Disorder Is? - NYRA

The definition of a mental disorder is a “dysfunction in the psychological, biological, or developmental processes underlying mental functioning.” Unfortunately, this definition is vague and leaves much room for debate and criticism. Since it is not entirely clear what “dysfunction” means, the...

www.youthrights.org

Predictably, Amber Heard Just Got Diagnosed With BPD and HPD

Official home of VictimFocus and Dr Jessica Taylor. Dedicated to fighting victim blaming of adults and children who have been affected by sexual violence, abuse and trauma. Delivering consultancy, training, psychology of abuse, resources and e-learning for professionals and public all over the...

www.victimfocus.org.uk

Abuse Cannot Be Blamed on Mental Illness

Research shows abusers are no more likely to be mentally ill than others By DomesticShelters.org Abusers love excuses. They only yelled at you because they were drunk. They only hit you because they were hit as children. They’re only abusive because they’re depressed. It’s not their fault. Survivors

hydecounty-hotline.org

This got me laughing way too hard.

I wish "it only hurts when I laugh" as the saying goes... but laughter seems the best way to short circuit the pain. Thanks for that.

You're absolutely right, noaccount.

ive found buspar to help with it. id doesnt stop anything. the feelings and everything are still there, but its like theyre in another room vs yelling in my ear making it a little easier to deal with. it might not be the answer for you as i have read about other people that tried buspar and it didnt help (of course what were they taking it for? i originally got mine for anxiety and it doesnt do shit for that lol) but, it may help.
if shes ok with it, give her hugs for me. dealing with this is hell and she needs them
ive been talking to my bf about mine for the last couple hours lol. it might take a while and there may be ups and downs during where it seems like youre losing her again, but just keep reminding her. its like i told my bf, as long as we're ok ill be ok.
edit: i should also add no side effects. growing up when i realized i was depressed the first thing i said is "i dont want drugs. i dont want to fake happy. im either happy or im not" but aside from actually understanding that people can think of nothing, i dont feel anything. its still all me.

Thank you. I'll look into buspar carefully.

I havn't hugged her lately... been kind of difficult for the past few days. This episode is tougher than the last few dozen. lol

Likely because it's impossible for me to be my old self, anymore. I'm gonna give her a hug for you first thing when she wakes up. She's got chronic incurable pain, too... but that woman can sleep like a log for hours! I envy her that.

 

[Maudlin]

Ok @Maudlin thanks for the context - so, you see this woman being abusive.
So, if you care about avoiding stereotypes, you could refrain from addressing women with this label, as a group, as if they will have, or relate to, or be able to answer for, this same abusive mindset.

Or, at least,question the implications of asking this about "women with this label", and how they're different from the implications of "PEOPLE WITH THIS LABEL."

Here's a hint:

"Once you're diagnosed, they've really got you. Laugh too much, cry to much, talk too much, don't talk enough -- or, god forbid, get angry -- and the people around you think you're getting 'sick' again."

Another helpful clue about what's going on with this dynamic:

"To determine whether gender is a powerful influence on perceived characteristics, a videotape of an infant labeled as either a boy or a girl was shown to 101 male and 89 female college students in introductory psychology classes. After watching the videotape, subjects completed a rating scale assessing the infant's characteristics. When labeled female, the [same] baby was rated as significantly less sturdy (that is, as being softer, more finely featured, smaller, and more delicate) than when labeled male."

So, we see how adults are socialized to read and judge the exact same behaviors extremely differently when seeing them presented by men versus women!

Yet another clue:
How the same behaviors will be judged very differently based on whether the observer is told the person is a psychiatric patient or not!

Rosenhan experiment - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If your disabled man friend is being abused he needs support in safety-planning and boundary-setting or exit-planning if he wants it. Not for people to theorize how a psych diagnosis could 'explain' the person abusing him.

Ok, I think I get it. Gender is your thing. That's fine... but gender isn't what I'm talking about, and this is a grown woman, not an infant.

I'm going to go back and talk with a woman, with whatever insights I gain here. Not just some person, not a man, but a woman. She's all woman- and she's quite an individual.
Thus, I ask for the thoughts of women with this label. Frankly, I doubt my specific interest addressed in the question would be in any way served by the thoughts of men, whether or not they think they're men, whether they have this label or not.

Women who think they're men would likely offer up better insight into this issue for me than any man could.
I don't mind dealing with women, in fact in matters of the heart I greatly prefer it.

Stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason... obviously. They ain't perfect, they ain't universal, but still they persist as a social construct because they're common and seemingly eternally repeated among people the world over.
I'm not trying to avoid stereotypes, at all. "stereotype" is not a dirty word.

The only problem with "stereotypes" is when folks think a stereotype is a concrete universal, and act accordingly. That's more of a problem with the misguided individual though, isn't it?

Men and women (I'm talking sex here, not "gender") think differently, in my experience. My measly little half-century of dealing with people of both sexes. I trust my gut.
Vive la différence!

You seem to have sharp, clear understanding of the headshrinker industry, noaccount. I respect that.
Thank you for your responses.

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

Here's a question for you, swingin' D... have you ever met a person who wasn't terrible?

I would say that when discussing cluster B disorders, that's like asking "have you ever met a dog that doesn't bite" after your pitbull just ripped my femoral artery wide open.

That being said, does it make you wonder why a normie male would feel the need to respond to a thread that specifically includes only BPD females as it's targeted demographic? lol

I'm looking to get distracted atm for one and quite frankly, threads on bpd tend to make me agitated partly because of personal bias and partly because of all the pussyfooting and whitewashing around the topic. Mostly when it comes to women suffering from the disorder. I have nothing against women in general, i love women, but i just dont see the same general pattern of whitewashing around different variations of narcissism in males. So much lies and bullshit. Mention some useful idiot getting totally assf*cked in a relationship with one of these people like you did and you got me seeing red.

Take care

In the lucky case metal music happens to be your thing, here's a delightful little tune for you to meditate to:

 

[Maudlin]

I would say that when discussing cluster B disorders, that's like asking "have you ever met a dog that doesn't bite" after your pitbull just ripped my femoral artery wide open.

I'm looking to get distracted atm for one and quite frankly, threads on bpd tend to make me agitated partly because of personal bias and partly because of all the pussyfooting and whitewashing around the topic. Mostly when it comes to women suffering from the disorder. I have nothing against women in general, i love women, but i just dont see the same general pattern of whitewashing around different variations of narcissism in males. So much lies and bullshit. Mention some useful idiot getting totally assf*cked in a relationship with one of these people like you did and you got me seeing red.

Take care

In the lucky case metal music happens to be your thing, here's a delightful little tune for you to meditate to:

Thank you, D.
Stay comfy.

 

[noaccount]

No, there are not male and female brains.

...Oh. Wait. Ok,

Women who think they're men

I see what the fuck is going on here.

 

[Maudlin]

No, there are not male and female brains.

...Oh. Wait. Ok,

I see what the fuck is going on here.

What is it you think you see?

 

[noaccount]

Ok, sure, let's go ahead and add calling trans men women to the list of whatever-the-hell is going on in this thread. Just to check off another square. Anyone have BINGO yet?

 

[Maudlin]

Ok, sure, let's go ahead and add calling trans men women to the list of whatever-the-hell is going on in this thread. Just to check off another square. Anyone have BINGO yet?

You can have whatever illusions you want to, but you can't make me adhere to your illusions.

You're entitled to whatever opinion you'd like. I ask only the same from you.

What you think doesn't offend me, I don't take your thoughts or opinions as a personal attack, my world is not crashing down for our lack of agreement... can you say the same?