Discussion Women attempt CTB more, but men succeed more

[ipmanwc0]

Gender differences in suicide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Women attempt ctb more than men, but men are WAY more likely to succeed such that in most countries male suicides are a majority by quite a bit. Why do you think this is the case? Men tend to use deadlier methods (for example women often try to overdose which is really ineffective), but are much more likely to succeed even using the same methods according to this article. Are women in general less determined, less informed, or less able to use methods that trigger SI more? I'd like to hear your thoughts. (note:men tending to have access to guns which are popular and lethal could be one part of it)

 

[sserafim]

Gender differences in suicide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Women attempt ctb more than men, but men are WAY more likely to succeed such that in most countries male suicides are a majority by quite a bit. Why do you think this is the case? Men tend to use deadlier methods (for example women often try to overdose which is really ineffective), but are much more likely to succeed even using the same methods according to this article. Are women in general less determined, less informed, or less able to use methods that trigger SI more? I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Not sure but I heard that women in general live longer than men so maybe that's a factor? Like women have a longer lifespan than men naturally

Maybe there's like an issue of hormones or something? Men have more testosterone and women have more estrogen. Honestly idk tbh

 

[Brown-Jacket Revy]

Males are more violent and reckless by nature, so thus more likely to follow through with brutal methods, I'd wager.

 

[bluebus]

I'm a girl (19) and I'd say that a big part of it is impulsivity. Overdoses are usually not a well thought through method. Most people that try to od intentionally are doing it on impulse, out of desperation, or to get a response (a cry for help), or a combination. This would make sense since most intentional overdoses are by women. And women, in general, tend to be more impulsive than men. Also like @vicarious said, men tend to be more "violent" and "fearless", so they are more likely to go for methods such as gunshot, jumping, hanging, etc. That's all I got really. This is only my opinion so take it lightly.

 

[sserafim]

Males are more violent and reckless by nature, so thus more likely to follow through with brutal methods, I'd wager.

Yeah it's that testosterone…

 

[SexyIncél]

Yeah it's that testosterone…

Hmm, my understanding of the lit is that it's currently unclear

Women physically abuse their kids more than men, in many cultures. (Study one, two.) Also, some claim interpersonal "violence appears to be about as common among lesbian couples as among heterosexual couples"

So it's possible that both may attack defenseless targets at around the same rate, when we account for various factors. Because of their common humanity, which includes violent behavior

(Anyone knowledgeable about the research should please feel free to correct me; I don't have time to delve into it & could only do quick googling for sources. There's many confounding factors & different cultures, so it seems less clear than I'd hope. We're not studying electrons here)

There's multiple factors across various levels of reality: biological, social, psychological

 

[sserafim]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/

Hmm, my understanding of the lit is that it's currently unclear

Women seem to beat up their kids way more than men. (Study one, two.) Also, some claim interpersonal "violence appears to be about as common among lesbian couples as among heterosexual couples"

So it's possible that both may attack defenseless targets at the same rate, when you account for various factors. Because of their common humanity, which includes violent behavior

(Anyone knowledgeable about the research should please feel free to correct me; I don't have time to delve into it & could only do quick googling for sources. There's many confounding factors, so it seems less clear than I'd hope)

There's multiple factors across various levels of reality: biological, social, psychological, spiritual

Testosterone is the aggression hormone tho and men are stereotyped to be more violent than women. Men are also physically stronger as well

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/

 

[SexyIncél]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/

Testosterone is the aggression hormone tho and men are stereotyped to be more violent than women. Men are also physically stronger as well

These statements are individually true afaik. But:

• testosterone: the line from any hormone to social acts of aggression is very complicated, and may be a minor factor among many others
• stereotypes: may be misleading. Men are stereotyped to be more rational than women; people might conclude that men are simply better at getting technical things done — including suicide mechanics. But I have no reason to believe that stereotype. (After all, women are supposed to be better at language. Yet Shakespeare still manages to be considered a great author)
• men's physical strength: There's no "Punch Yourself Dead Megathread". Our ctb methods use tools, not strength. In fact, I heard reports that women (say in Rojava) may be better fighters than their male counterparts, because guns cancel strength & maybe socialized to work more precisely with less ego

One anthropologist studied suicides in a couple different cultures. He said:

• monologue: Men tended to do this. "Marked by an attempt to escape from unbearable situations, and to limit the effects of the death beyond the event"
• dialogue: Women tended to do this. "Expressive acts that are directed outward as a means of communication and form part of an ongoing discourse between persons. There is an explicit attempt to affect other people and situations."

Another anthropological overview on suicide, which mentions gender effects

 

[sserafim]

These statements are individually true afaik. But:

• testosterone: the line from any hormone to social acts of aggression is very complicated, and may be a minor factor among many others
• stereotypes: may be misleading. Men are stereotyped to be more rational than women; people might conclude that men are simply better at getting technical things done — including suicide mechanics. But I have no reason to believe that stereotype. (After all, women are supposed to be better at language. Yet Shakespeare still manages to be considered a great author)
• men's physical strength: There's no "Punch Yourself Dead Megathread". Our ctb methods use tools, not strength. In fact, I heard reports that women (say in Rojava) may be better fighters than their male counterparts, because guns cancel strength & maybe socialized to work more precisely with less ego

One anthropologist studied suicides in a couple different cultures. He said:

• monologue: Men tended to do this. "Marked by an attempt to escape from unbearable situations, and to limit the effects of the death beyond the event"
• dialogue: Women tended to do this. "Expressive acts that are directed outward as a means of communication and form part of an ongoing discourse between persons. There is an explicit attempt to affect other people and situations."

Another anthropological overview on suicide, which mentions gender effects

Hmm interesting, are those (monologue and dialogue) the main reasons why men and women respectively ctb?

I'm a woman and the reason for mine will fall under monologue rather than dialogue. I want to ctb to escape my unbearable life as well as my future (esp the lack of it cuz I have no future). I don't really care if other people or situations are affected. It's mainly something I'm doing for myself and my own benefit.

Perhaps the difference in success rates is because women tend to want to affect others with their suicide, so they choose more expressive methods? Like OD for example

 

[Dying Knight]

• stereotypes: may be misleading. Men are stereotyped to be more rational than women; people might conclude that men are simply better at getting technical things done — including suicide mechanics. But I have no reason to believe that stereotype.

An average man indeed seems to understand tech stuff much better than an average woman. In particular, women often perform really crazy things when driving their cars which men would nearly never do.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I wonder if the statistics will level out more now with people using things like SN. Plus, with the means to research methods on places like this.

I think I've read the argument that women seem less willing to disfigure their bodies via methods like gun shots and jumping. Plus- as others have said- I think we (I'm female) tend to want to avoid very violent and brutal methods a lot of the time.

Maybe we are more impulsive. I don't know. I wouldn't say I was. I've had ideation for 33 years but I've never been tempted to do something I thought may well fail. I've known someone attempt twice though on over the counter medication- which just seemed reckless to me but she said- the state she was in- she was just desperate.

 

[darkenmydoorstep]

Gender differences in suicide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Women attempt ctb more than men, but men are WAY more likely to succeed such that in most countries male suicides are a majority by quite a bit. Why do you think this is the case? Men tend to use deadlier methods (for example women often try to overdose which is really ineffective), but are much more likely to succeed even using the same methods according to this article. Are women in general less determined, less informed, or less able to use methods that trigger SI more? I'd like to hear your thoughts. (note:men tending to have access to guns which are popular and lethal could be one part of it)

As I understand it it's because men are more inclined to use more harder, more violent methods which are more sure proof. Also women are more likely to attempt it using a 'soft' method (pill OD etc) whilst feeling emotional, again maybe skewing logical considerations.

I've never felt bright enough to do anything that requires technical knowledge, I know I'll screw up. I was the only one in my group who failed first aid. I'm just not very practical.

Men I have told about my feelings are often dismissive because I've never tried. I don't have *that badge* so therefore am clearly 'not serious' *eye roll*, but it's purely because of fear of not succeeding and ending up in a worse state than I am. It is terrifying. Either sustaining catastrophic injury or ending up locked in a psych ward under surveillance or forced to take meds.

How many others walk this soulless corridor as I do?