GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
If you want to skip the intro, the quote is below at the end of the post.
I process so much on this forum, as I tend to in all social situations, but especially in situations such as this, where there is so much exposed and so much interaction. I'm extroverted and gain from reading others' experiences and interacting with them, seeing outside of myself what applies to my own experience. I am strengthened by interacting with others, and when I am alone, I can better process what is internal having seen it externally.
When people share vulnerably their experiences, yes, they expose something that may be tender, they take a risk, and in this environment it is a calculated risk because there is abundant evidence that there are many who care. They gain an opportunity, a potential, to have that vulnerability cared for, because as social beings we cannot do everything for ourselves. Sometimes they take hits, and they cannot control that. But as well, to have the vulnerability recognized, and perhaps with it benefitting others without that intention, without putting it on them, can be an unexpected reward that strengthens the benifts of being social and connecting with others in positive, beneficial ways.
I've processed a lot about my family participating in this forum. A new member just repeated a maxim that we spend our adult lives healing from our childhoods. I've certainly experienced that. I've been recovering from my childhood since I was in it, and it has been a lifetime effort that has brought rewards for having done so. I still suffer, but I suffer less. I am oppressed by circumstances outside my control which I don't discuss, but as I keep making the effort, I manage them better. Suicide is a rational response to what I'm experiencing, but my attempts have not yet resulted in the peaceful death I prefer, that is, they did not accede to my immediate wishes and convenience. I am using that adversity -- both of the attempts' failures as well as of external circumstances -- to my benefit for as long as I have no control over the fact that it is, and am not yet willing or pushed to the point of a less peaceful death.
I've lately come to a lot of new understanding about enmenshment, or what it termed co-dependency -- believing that other's actions and intentions are focused the one who observes them. It is a false sense of ownership. But in my studying of Stoic philosophy, I gained a new perspective: wishes and convenience.
From my very earliest years, my mother interpreted my actions and intentions as being directed at her. She perceived that I was trying to control her and the family dynamics, when I was not yet aware of myself as a being, let alone of such complex things. In the following reading I came to realize that what she was rejecting was adversity in the form of an external denial of her immediate wishes and convenience. In response, she negated me and tried to beat me, physically and verbally, in submission to her wishes and convenience, rather than working with the unexpected but valuable adversity (she chose to be a mother for its value to her) presented by an autonomous person in her life who she mistakenly believed she could control and make pliant to her wishes and convenience. She did not serve me as a parent, I existed, in her perception, to serve her needs and wishes. When I did not do so, I became to her an enemy with intent to destroy, an abuser poised on monstrosity. It was a projection of her own intentions and actions toward me. It is, I think, a danger of what empowers extroversion -- getting fuel from the external, but not recognizing the external as being external and separate. It is not processed as a valuable resource that helps to recognize in the self what is seen in others, knowing that each of us has the same potential for negative as well as for good, that what we reject is something within ourselves that likely needs attention, too.
I'm sharing here the quote from the book The Practicing Stoic that impacted me. As is my way, first I notice that I apply it to others as I see the errors in their actions, and then I am able to recognize and apply it to myself so that I can correct any errors in my own perceptions and the actions they've motivated. Writing and sharing it reinfornces the learning experience for me. If someone also gets benefit, that's nice, but not required. My sharing is an expression of that social reciprocity I enjoy. I can't control how it is received, let alone if it is. But if someone enjoys something from it, I am glad. Like a good meal I enjoy so much I want to share the experience with others, I can't preditct how it will taste to them. Their senses and preferences are not mine, but it can be rather nice to enjoy a meal together if everyone agrees they want to, even if not everyone things it tastes as great as I do. We can still enjoy the company and the experience together, without set expectations. If you don't want to join in the meal, that's okay, it wouldn't have been a good experience for you or for me. I wish you well.
Adversity resembles death... : it is both an external that we misjudge and a resource that might be put to use. On a Stoic view, we don't like adversity -- that's mostly what it means for something to be adversity -- for the same reason that we misjudge many other externals: we view them with psychological parochialism, defining size and value and better and worse in terms of our immediate wishes and convenience. Stepping away from the wishes and convenience allows adversity to be seen as it is -- as often less monstrous than it looks whan it first comes, as sometimes producing important benefits, and in any event as inevitable.
...[W]hen a setback comes, Stoics interpret it as constructively as possible -- as a chance to prove oneself [and one's virtues, values, and beliefs], or to learn, or to build anew; and the value of any of these responses may be greater than the cost of the adversity.
...[A]cceptance of it, and adaption to it, can help with its management.
I process so much on this forum, as I tend to in all social situations, but especially in situations such as this, where there is so much exposed and so much interaction. I'm extroverted and gain from reading others' experiences and interacting with them, seeing outside of myself what applies to my own experience. I am strengthened by interacting with others, and when I am alone, I can better process what is internal having seen it externally.
When people share vulnerably their experiences, yes, they expose something that may be tender, they take a risk, and in this environment it is a calculated risk because there is abundant evidence that there are many who care. They gain an opportunity, a potential, to have that vulnerability cared for, because as social beings we cannot do everything for ourselves. Sometimes they take hits, and they cannot control that. But as well, to have the vulnerability recognized, and perhaps with it benefitting others without that intention, without putting it on them, can be an unexpected reward that strengthens the benifts of being social and connecting with others in positive, beneficial ways.
I've processed a lot about my family participating in this forum. A new member just repeated a maxim that we spend our adult lives healing from our childhoods. I've certainly experienced that. I've been recovering from my childhood since I was in it, and it has been a lifetime effort that has brought rewards for having done so. I still suffer, but I suffer less. I am oppressed by circumstances outside my control which I don't discuss, but as I keep making the effort, I manage them better. Suicide is a rational response to what I'm experiencing, but my attempts have not yet resulted in the peaceful death I prefer, that is, they did not accede to my immediate wishes and convenience. I am using that adversity -- both of the attempts' failures as well as of external circumstances -- to my benefit for as long as I have no control over the fact that it is, and am not yet willing or pushed to the point of a less peaceful death.
I've lately come to a lot of new understanding about enmenshment, or what it termed co-dependency -- believing that other's actions and intentions are focused the one who observes them. It is a false sense of ownership. But in my studying of Stoic philosophy, I gained a new perspective: wishes and convenience.
From my very earliest years, my mother interpreted my actions and intentions as being directed at her. She perceived that I was trying to control her and the family dynamics, when I was not yet aware of myself as a being, let alone of such complex things. In the following reading I came to realize that what she was rejecting was adversity in the form of an external denial of her immediate wishes and convenience. In response, she negated me and tried to beat me, physically and verbally, in submission to her wishes and convenience, rather than working with the unexpected but valuable adversity (she chose to be a mother for its value to her) presented by an autonomous person in her life who she mistakenly believed she could control and make pliant to her wishes and convenience. She did not serve me as a parent, I existed, in her perception, to serve her needs and wishes. When I did not do so, I became to her an enemy with intent to destroy, an abuser poised on monstrosity. It was a projection of her own intentions and actions toward me. It is, I think, a danger of what empowers extroversion -- getting fuel from the external, but not recognizing the external as being external and separate. It is not processed as a valuable resource that helps to recognize in the self what is seen in others, knowing that each of us has the same potential for negative as well as for good, that what we reject is something within ourselves that likely needs attention, too.
I'm sharing here the quote from the book The Practicing Stoic that impacted me. As is my way, first I notice that I apply it to others as I see the errors in their actions, and then I am able to recognize and apply it to myself so that I can correct any errors in my own perceptions and the actions they've motivated. Writing and sharing it reinfornces the learning experience for me. If someone also gets benefit, that's nice, but not required. My sharing is an expression of that social reciprocity I enjoy. I can't control how it is received, let alone if it is. But if someone enjoys something from it, I am glad. Like a good meal I enjoy so much I want to share the experience with others, I can't preditct how it will taste to them. Their senses and preferences are not mine, but it can be rather nice to enjoy a meal together if everyone agrees they want to, even if not everyone things it tastes as great as I do. We can still enjoy the company and the experience together, without set expectations. If you don't want to join in the meal, that's okay, it wouldn't have been a good experience for you or for me. I wish you well.
Adversity resembles death... : it is both an external that we misjudge and a resource that might be put to use. On a Stoic view, we don't like adversity -- that's mostly what it means for something to be adversity -- for the same reason that we misjudge many other externals: we view them with psychological parochialism, defining size and value and better and worse in terms of our immediate wishes and convenience. Stepping away from the wishes and convenience allows adversity to be seen as it is -- as often less monstrous than it looks whan it first comes, as sometimes producing important benefits, and in any event as inevitable.
...[W]hen a setback comes, Stoics interpret it as constructively as possible -- as a chance to prove oneself [and one's virtues, values, and beliefs], or to learn, or to build anew; and the value of any of these responses may be greater than the cost of the adversity.
...[A]cceptance of it, and adaption to it, can help with its management.
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