Method Will DDMP2 work without the morphine???

[mini_weeny]

The method involves

digoxin
Diazepam
Morphine
Propranolol
Can it work without the morphine?

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

The method involves

digoxin
Diazepam
Morphine
Propranolol
Can it work without the morphine?

Morphine's use is for respiratory depression, and pain, and has constipatory effects.
You can go without it, however, it won't be as peaceful. However, you can substitute with a weaker opiate like codeine, hydrocodone, or even loperamide since digoxin is a p-glycoprotein inhibitor. It is however recommended you take scopolamine with it as it'll potentiate the sedative and constipatory, and perhaps even analgesic properties of either drug you choose as a substitute.

 

[Aap]

The only two things in ddmp that are reliably fatal are the morphine and digoxin. Digoxin alone is fatal but not peaceful.

 

[mini_weeny]

Very interesting didn't know loperamide is in the opiate class. Thanks for this info!

 

[Aap]

Ignore the user who mentioned loperamide. While it is an opiod, it does not cross the blood brain barrier and is therefore only useful peripherally for treating things such as diarrhea.

in before a slew of posts asking how much loperamide is lethal.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

Ignore the user who mentioned loperamide. While it is an opiod, it does not cross the blood brain barrier and is therefore only useful peripherally for treating things such as diarrhea.

in before a slew of posts asking how much loperamide is lethal.

Studies disagree; loperamide can work. However, it requires a supra-therapeutic dosage as well as an a co-administration of a p-glycoprotein inhibitor.

While I didn't share a link for this one, it'll also work if you snort it.

Increased drug delivery to the brain by P-glycoprotein inhibition - PubMed

This study therefore demonstrates first the potential for important drug interactions to occur by a new mechanism, namely, inhibition of P-glycoprotein, and second that the lack of respiratory depression produced by loperamide, which allows it to be safely used therapeutically, can be reversed...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Coadministration of P-glycoprotein modulators on loperamide pharmacokinetics and brain distribution - PubMed

The efflux transporter P-glycoprotein, expressed at high levels at the blood-brain barrier, exerts a profound effect on the disposition of various therapeutic compounds in the brain. A rapid and efficient modulation of this efflux transporter could enhance the distribution of its substrates and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Error - Cookies Turned Off

onlinelibrary.wiley.com

Loperamide - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Loperamide - Erowid Exp - 'It's True'

An Experience with Loperamide. 'It's True' by Nikki

erowid.org

Loperamide - Erowid Exp - 'The Sudafed of Opiates'

An Experience with Loperamide. 'The Sudafed of Opiates' by Cryss Curry

erowid.org

Loperamide & Black Pepper - Erowid Exp - 'Wouldn't Say That This Is Anything Amazing'

An Experience with Loperamide & Black Pepper. 'Wouldn't Say That This Is Anything Amazing' by Herr_Doktor421

erowid.org

 

[Aap]

Yes, I'm aware of p-glycoprotein inhibitors. The lunacy of your position is that if loperamide could be successfully abused in any meaningful way, it would be actively being abused. It isn't.

I don't know if you don't have much experience reading medical studies or are intentionally misrepresenting them. Mild respiratory depression does not an overdose make. Likewise, your Erowid references are...yeah. Mild opiate effects? Give me a break.

again, this isn't new information and has been bandied about for 20 years across places like Erowid, blue light, and scattered medical journals. There isn't a viable, readily available method to increase loperamide transport across the blood brain barrier in such a manner that produces significant, central opioid effects that can satisfy opioid tolerant individuals or induce an overdosage death by respiratory depression. Period

You are misrepresenting facts, either don't understand what you are reading, and are ignoring the basic fact that loperamide is not being relentlessly abused and sought by opioid addicted individuals.

 

[Aap]

I probably should let this go, but I'm annoyed that @DetachedDreamer97 either didn't read the links they posted or were intentionally full of it. Let me be clear, their claim that loperamide can be substituted for morphine in a ctb attempt (much less be abused in any meaningful way) is 100% bullshit.

why am I posting this? The reason is this site has desperate users that try all manner of things to end suffering. The ONLY significant thing that will happen from a loperamide overdose is a possible intestinal obstruction.

1. P-glycoprotein inhibitors have been talked on drug sites and medical literature associated with loperamide for AT LEAST 20 years. This is just the length of time I've followed it.
2. There have been no, zero, readily available compounds within any measure of realistic reach for anyone reading this that have shown effects remotely close to what DD97 claims. (In before someone says "but what about nano-particulates")
3. Loperamide has been around for quite a while. If it was abusable, it would be actively being abused and not available.
4. Loperamide is useful for diarrhea and ameliorating some of the symptoms of withdrawl...that's it.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

I probably should let this go, but I'm annoyed that @DetachedDreamer97 either didn't read the links they posted or were intentionally full of it. Let me be clear, their claim that loperamide can be substituted for morphine in a ctb attempt (much less be abused in any meaningful way) is 100% bullshit.

why am I posting this? The reason is this site has desperate users that try all manner of things to end suffering. The ONLY significant thing that will happen from a loperamide overdose is a possible intestinal obstruction.

1. P-glycoprotein inhibitors have been talked on drug sites and medical literature associated with loperamide for AT LEAST 20 years. This is just the length of time I've followed it.
2. There have been no, zero, readily available compounds within any measure of realistic reach for anyone reading this that have shown effects remotely close to what DD97 claims. (In before someone says "but what about nano-particulates")
3. Loperamide has been around for quite a while. If it was abusable, it would be actively being abused and not available.
4. Loperamide is useful for diarrhea and ameliorating some of the symptoms of withdrawl...that's it.

Hahahaha... Child, please... 100 percent is a bit of a stretch, don't 'cha think?
Yes, you might be right about me not reading into it 100 percent fully... but a quick look at this still suggests it's possible. The fact that it can cross the blood brain barrier to a degree with p-glycoprotein inhibitors is enough to say it's possible. Even if that's not enough to cause full on respiratory depression, there's a reason why I suggested adding scopolamine, as with other weaker opiates.
There are other alternatives, but I decided to mention something practical.

On 3, that's where you're wrong. There are people that abuse it, it may not be banned, the FDA approved new package types and limits on how much loperamide can be sold over the counter. Limiting it down to no more than 48 mg in blister packs. There's a reason why it's called "Poor Man's Methadone".

The only thing you are right is the possible intestinal obstruction, at the same time, all opiates are constipatory. At the same time however, that might be a good thing. Not the obstruction part, but the constipation part. Digoxin increases gut motility, and in an event of an overdose, it's even more pronounced.

 

[Aap]

It is not remotely possible. Resorting to name calling indicates the quality of your argument. Loperamide cannot substitute for morphine or a different opioid in the DDPM cocktail...period. To suggest otherwise is nonsensical and backing in to a ridiculous corner.

You completely misunderstand the fda guidance, which is due to prolonged QT intervals not abuse potential. (In before loperamide has caused deaths from cardiac arrest so I was right). Again, loperamide cannot substitute for morphine in a ddmp cocktail, which is what you claimed and is bullshit.

also, the fact you view slowing gastric motility as a good thing in the context of an OD indicates you don't understand what is going on. Why is meto, a prokinetic agent, often used in conjunction with an intentional OD? You are saying this is a bad thing?

 

[mini_weeny]

It is not remotely possible. Resorting to name calling indicates the quality of your argument. Loperamide cannot substitute for morphine or a different opioid in the DDPM cocktail...period. To suggest otherwise is nonsensical and backing in to a ridiculous corner.

You completely misunderstand the fda guidance, which is due to prolonged QT intervals not abuse potential. (In before loperamide has caused deaths from cardiac arrest so I was right). Again, loperamide cannot substitute for morphine in a ddmp cocktail, which is what you claimed and is bullshit.

also, the fact you view slowing gastric motility as a good thing in the context of an OD indicates you don't understand what is going on. Why is meto, a prokinetic agent, often used in conjunction with an intentional OD? You are saying this is a bad thing?

I'm really enjoying the intellectual level of this discussion.
On a side note, I got really fucked up after 6 months of using prokinetics at therapeutic doses, they mess with dopamine and can cause parkingson like disease which I got. It totally fucked my brain and my intellect got awfully affected permanently and it's the main cause I ended up in this site, I did some pretty stupid shit under the influence of these prokinetics. If I had been under the influence of illegal drugs my brain would definitely not be the useless mush it is now.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

It is not remotely possible. Resorting to name calling indicates the quality of your argument.

Boy, don't you pull that "Oh! Why you name-calling" talk-no-jutsu with me!

Loperamide cannot substitute for morphine or a different opioid in the DDPM cocktail...period. To suggest otherwise is nonsensical and backing in to a ridiculous corner.

I'm going to keep suggesting otherwise since it isn't poppycock.

You completely misunderstand the fda guidance, which is due to prolonged QT intervals not abuse potential. (In before loperamide has caused deaths from cardiac arrest so I was right). Again, loperamide cannot substitute for morphine in a ddmp cocktail, which is what you claimed and is bullshit.

OBJECTION!!! Not all deaths are due to cardiac arrests. Respiratory depression deaths are a possibility, especially when combined with a p-glycoprotein ingibitor or administered in a way that will cross the bbb.

also, the fact you view slowing gastric motility as a good thing in the context of an OD indicates you don't understand what is going on. Why is meto, a prokinetic agent, often used in conjunction with an intentional OD? You are saying this is a bad thing?

I dare say metocloperamide and digoxin isn't much of a good thing, Since increased GI motility also means faster elimination for digoxin. It would work if there were an opiate like 15 GRAMS of morphine, which counters the GI motolity effect of meto and digoxin, this wouldn't be much of a problem.
But in OP's case, morphine is inaccessible. Hence, opiates like others previously I've mentioned, INCLUDING lope-dope, will substitute that.

I'm really enjoying the intellectual level of this discussion.
On a side note, I got really fucked up after 6 months of using prokinetics at therapeutic doses, they mess with dopamine and can cause parkingson like disease which I got. It totally fucked my brain and my intellect got awfully affected permanently and it's the main cause I ended up in this site, I did some pretty stupid shit under the influence of these prokinetics. If I had been under the influence of illegal drugs my brain would definitely not be the useless mush it is now.

Good news is that scopolamine is actually used for parkinsons. When there's too low dopamine but high acetylcholine, it causes you to tremble.

 

[mario5757]

Morphine's use is for respiratory depression, and pain, and has constipatory effects.
You can go without it, however, it won't be as peaceful. However, you can substitute with a weaker opiate like codeine, hydrocodone, or even loperamide since digoxin is a p-glycoprotein inhibitor. It is however recommended you take scopolamine with it as it'll potentiate the sedative and constipatory, and perhaps even analgesic properties of either drug you choose as a substitute.

I you substitute morphine with codeine/hydrocodone, what dosage is it advisable? Still 10gr?