Why is that men are more successful at suicides than women?

[DivineSpark]

The suicide rate among males in 2022 was approximately four times higher than the rate among females. Males make up 50% of the population but nearly 80% of suicides.

 

[Namelesa]

What I have heard is they are more likely to choose more violent effective methods such as firearms and so are more likely to have a successful suicide attempt.

 

[NearlyIrrelevantCake]

Women are more likely to choose overdosing as a method and it's very unreliable and not even worth trying as a method.

 

[Aprilfarewell4]

men in US use firearms more often. it's most effective.

 

[DivineSpark]

men in US use firearms more often. it's most effective.

I wish I would have access to firearms here in my country. Our gunlaws are quite strict. I think I would have blow my heart or brains out long time ago.

 

[slinkey10]

The suicide rate among males in 2022 was approximately four times higher than the rate among females. Males make up 50% of the population but nearly 80% of suicides.

Have you got any quotes for this info? Genuinely interested in your sources to have a read myself.

What I have heard is they are more likely to choose more violent effective methods such as firearms and so are more likely to have a successful suicide attempt.

Agreed!! but would also add changing gender roles, toxic masculinity & those expectations on men, Female expectations as carers so less likely to leave ppl behind etc etc ... loads of other variables when you start really looking at why?

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

this woman shot herself on live tv

The Haunting Story Of Christine Chubbuck, The News Reporter Who Killed Herself Live On Air In 1974

Christine Chubbuck was the first person to die by suicide on live television.

allthatsinteresting.com

Ms USA Chelsie kryst jumped from a building

Lee Macmillan jumped in front of train

Lee Macmillan, a popular van-life influencer, has died

The van-life influencer Lee Macmillan's loved ones said on Instagram this week that she had died by suicide.

www.businessinsider.com

I've seen many men and women in the watchpeople die website committing suicide. I think it's just mindset

 

[DivineSpark]

Suicide statistics

Learn the latest statistics on suicide. Data on suicide are taken from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Data & Statistics Fatal Injury Report for 2018, as of March 1, 2020. Suicide rates listed are Age-Adjusted Rates.

afsp.org

In 2022, men died by suicide 3.85 times more than women.

 

[Languish]

The suicide rate among males in 2022 was approximately four times higher than the rate among females. Males make up 50% of the population but nearly 80% of suicides.

It is not that men are more successful at suicide. It is just that this world puts more pressure on them, so many are just more prone to suicide. Even out of trans suicides, MtF is significantly more common than FtM and MtF are more shunned in general. Society runs at a point where a man is meant to single handedly provide, show no emotion, and has to be the one pursuant of romantic interest. With inflation, it is increasingly more difficult to provide. In withholding emotion, they kill their hearts. Also many men just don't have it in them to pursue romantic interests, and wish they could be the ones letting love come to them.

Men tend to be prone to depression (lack of emotion, rather than a womans overwhelming emotion) in general. This is also why women cut much more often than men, as they cut to let out all they feel. Many men don't feel as though they feel anything, so cutting doesn't help the same way. Men are more prone to loneliness as well.

I have always felt lucky as a woman, that if I ever wanted love, I had plenty of suitors and could let it in with whoever I chose. I know men who have gone their entire lives without a suitor. Being a man seems so competitive and there are so many that just don't seem cut out for what society expects of them. Being a woman has it's share of issues as well, but we generally have more of a support system around us, people we can lean on. Women are often objectified, but at least we are treasured. Men are all too often treated as unimportant and cast aside. I get very sad for them just thinking about all they have to endure., just for being born male.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Suicide statistics

Learn the latest statistics on suicide. Data on suicide are taken from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Data & Statistics Fatal Injury Report for 2018, as of March 1, 2020. Suicide rates listed are Age-Adjusted Rates.

afsp.org

In 2022, men died by suicide 3.85 times more than women.

That seems to be more from the USA . Lots of men know how to use guns in the USA. It's like a lot more vets and doctors commit suicide cause they have Nembutal

 

[slinkey10]

Suicide statistics

Learn the latest statistics on suicide. Data on suicide are taken from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Data & Statistics Fatal Injury Report for 2018, as of March 1, 2020. Suicide rates listed are Age-Adjusted Rates.

afsp.org

In 2022, men died by suicide 3.85 times more than women.

its a pro life site.. from a quick look? Look at that last sentence! lol

Additional facts about suicide in the US

• The age-adjusted suicide rate in 2022 was 14.21 per 100,000 individuals.
• In 2022, men died by suicide 3.85 times more than women.
• White males accounted for 68.46% of suicide deaths in 2022.
• In 2022, firearms accounted for 54.64% of all suicide deaths.
• 94% of adults surveyed in the U.S. think suicide can be prevented.

From Wiki

List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"male and female rates of suicidal behaviors differ compared to the rest of the world: while women are reportedly more prone to suicidal thoughts, rates of suicide are higher among men"

 

[YandereMikuMistress]

Have you got any quotes for this info? Genuinely interested in your sources to have a read myself.



Agreed!! but would also add changing gender roles, toxic masculinity & those expectations on men, Female expectations as carers so less likely to leave ppl behind etc etc ... loads of other variables when you start really looking at why?

Yup then many of them off themselves at an old old ripe age when they've got no one left to care for, aka no one to distract them form keeping themselves from themselves, that's obviously not all and Majorly stereotyping women but that is the case for so many,, not like they've actually enjoyed there life tho when your only thinking about someone else's.

 

[L'absent]

The difference in suicide rates between men and women varies depending on cultural, social, and economic factors. In the West, men die by suicide much more than women (usually 3-4 times more) because they tend to choose more lethal methods, such as firearms, hanging, or jumping from heights, which have a high probability of success. Women, on the other hand, more often resort to overdoses or poisoning, which allow for a higher chance of medical intervention.
Additionally, men are less likely to seek psychological help or express their distress due to social pressure that discourages them from showing weakness. Male suicide is often more impulsive, and men tend to have weaker social networks than women, making them more vulnerable to isolation.
When Suicide Rates Are Higher Among Women
In many traditional societies, however, women have higher suicide rates than men. This happens in countries like China, India, and some Pacific islands, where women face severe social pressures, forced marriages, domestic violence, and discrimination, with fewer opportunities to escape oppressive situations. In these contexts, suicide becomes an extreme form of rebellion or a desperate escape from an unbearable reality.
Family dynamics also play a crucial role: in many patriarchal societies, women who deviate from social expectations can be marginalized, increasing their risk of depression and suicide.
The Case of French Polynesia: A More Balanced Suicide Rate
An interesting exception is French Polynesia, where suicide rates are more balanced between men and women, a rarity compared to most of the world. This could be linked to the historical presence of a third gender in Polynesian culture, such as the māhū in Tahiti and the fa'afafine in Samoa, reflecting a more fluid approach to gender roles and a lower pressure for men to conform to hyper-masculine ideals.
In a society where social roles are less strictly binary, the differences in suicide rates between men and women tend to be less pronounced. However, suicide in French Polynesia remains a significant issue, often linked to an identity crisis caused by colonization and the difficulty of reconciling tradition with modernity.

 

[Thomas599]

Yay!!! Men! We're number 1, We're number 1, We're number 1!!! Woo Hoo!!!

 

[failureofahuman]

Men are more likely to own guns, and more likely to know how to tie knots

 

[particularrodent]

Men tend to be prone to depression (lack of emotion, rather than a womans overwhelming emotion) in general. This is also why women cut much more often than men, as they cut to let out all they feel. Many men don't feel as though they feel anything, so cutting doesn't help the same way. Men are more prone to loneliness as well.

this is all cultural and passed down through the "boys don't cry" hypermasc patriarchy in the west. it is by no means scientific that men feel less than women or women feel more than men. in pre westernized east asia, it was in fact the opposite- women were unfeeling and cold (yin) and men were the feeling ones (yang). even up until the victorian era, women were seen as less intelligent and by proxy less feeling

 

[EvisceratedJester]

It is not that men are more successful at suicide. It is just that this world puts more pressure on them, so many are just more prone to suicide. Even out of trans suicides, MtF is significantly more common than FtM and MtF are more shunned in general. Society runs at a point where a man is meant to single handedly provide, show no emotion, and has to be the one pursuant of romantic interest. With inflation, it is increasingly more difficult to provide. In withholding emotion, they kill their hearts. Also many men just don't have it in them to pursue romantic interests, and wish they could be the ones letting love come to them.

First off, women actually attempt more on average, it's just that men tend to succeed more. To add onto this, the gender gap in suicide has actually been closing over the past few years due to women increasingly using more lethal suicidal methods (particularly hanging).

Also, nowadays most households are two-income households. Men generally aren't the soul breadwinners anymore. Thus, the whole "men are expected to single-handedly provide" thing doesn't apply to the vast majority of men (at least those in the West). Funnily enough, there have been increasing issues with women having to both work and take care of the vast majority of household and childrearing duties.

Men tend to be prone to depression (lack of emotion, rather than a womans overwhelming emotion) in general. This is also why women cut much more often than men, as they cut to let out all they feel. Many men don't feel as though they feel anything, so cutting doesn't help the same way. Men are more prone to loneliness as well.

Secondly, self-harm is actually a lot more common among men than people realize, it's just that it tends to be underreported. If I remember correctly, around 35% of men admit to self-harming. This statistic is likely even higher than that. Along with that, while cutting is a more popular method among women, men still self-harm through other means, such as hitting themselves. Depressed men also tend to turn to drugs and alcohol more as an outlet, along with engaging in plenty of other types of self-destructive behaviours.

Along with that, many who cut do it to feel something, not just to "let out their feelings". In reality, people's reasoning behind why they cut tends to vary a lot and cannot be generalized to just letting out their feelings. Many women do it as a result of feeling numb and wanting to feel something. Also, a lot of depressed men let out their feelings in their own way, especially through engaging in other types of self-destructive behaviours.

Men also aren't more prone to loneliness. At least from what I've seen, a lot of statistics I have found were pretty mixed. Some found that women on average were more likely to report feeling lonely, others found the opposite, and some found no difference in reports of loneliness between the genders. It seems as though the "make loneliness epidemic" is more of a general loneliness epidemic, tbh.

I have always felt lucky as a woman, that if I ever wanted love, I had plenty of suitors and could let it in with whoever I chose. I know men who have gone their entire lives without a suitor. Being a man seems so competitive and there are so many that just don't seem cut out for what society expects of them. Being a woman has it's share of issues as well, but we generally have more of a support system around us, people we can lean on. Women are often objectified, but at least we are treasured. Men are all too often treated as unimportant and cast aside. I get very sad for them just thinking about all they have to endure., just for being born male.

Thirdly, as of now, the general consensus seems to be that women are actually more prone to depression, not men (they are twice as likely to be diagnosed with it). Women are more likely to be diagnosed with the disorder and why depression is more common amongst women is still something that is being looked into, at least from what I remember. Some think that it may have to do with hormonal factors, some years back research found that it could be due to our diagnostic criteria for the disorder potentially overlooking symptoms of depression that are more common in men (though, that study found that when using their new diagnostic criteria that it was equal between the genders, if I remember correctly), it might be due to societal factors that impact women, etc. For now, it seems as though the general consensus is that women are more prone to depression in general, not men.

There are also plenty of women who have never had suitors before either. Hell, there have been women on this site who have talked about having never had luck with men before and feeling depressed over not being able to find love.

Women also aren't treasured. Wider society tends to treat us as things and people are very quick to attack women over small things. Hell, despite what people think, thanks to what happened with the Titanic, women (and children) historically had lower rates of survival compared to men when it comes to maritime disasters. There are plenty of cases of women getting blamed for being raped and abused. There are so many cases of female celebrities being shamed for shit that isn't a big deal and being made fun of in the middle of their mental breakdowns. If I remember correctly, there was a case on TikTok where a man murdered his ex and everyone was siding with him. I've seen men, and even some women, celebrate men hitting women. In the black community, there is a history of black men devaluing black women and making fun of them while also objectifying them simultaneously (not all, but enough that it's become a prominent discussion within the black community). We aren't "treasured", we are treated like shit. This is especially the case for women of colour (especially black and Indigenous women), fat women, poor women, queer women, older women, and basically any woman who doesn't meet our narrow societal expectations of what it means to be a woman.


I do agree that men have their own issues that they have to deal with, such as with them not being taken seriously when it comes to being raped, abused, or sexually harassed (especially when it is at the hands of women), to issues with them being expected to be hypersexual. However, I disagree with a lot of the conclusions you have come to. I feel like some of them are either partly or entirely wrong and I also feel like your last point about women at least being "treasured" doesn't hold up well to scrutiny, especially when we look at the ways in which women from particularly vulnerable and very marginalized demographics are treated.

 

[FearOfMachines]

To be fair, this is mainly a stereotype, but women often choose methods that are less successful. For example, women usually choose to cut arteries or overdose which have lower success rates than shooting yourself, (which is the stereotype for men).

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

The murder statistic in my country reveals that 86 % of the suspects were male. Why should the statistics about killing oneself differ so much. Male have in general a higher level of risk appetite, you only have to look at the driving behavior.
I think the evolutionary reason is womans in built-in incubator and the long gestation and care of the brood. If for example 90% percent of the male population die in a war but the females survive, it will have almost no impact on the population size. If it were the other way round there would be a high risk to die out.
It is an evolutionary advantage if men are willing to sacrivice self for their community.

 

[Szarur-abi]

Male-to-female ratio of suicide rate

Estimated ratio of male to female suicide rates; a ratio greater than one indicates higher suicide rates in men. Suicide deaths are underreported in many countries due to social stigma and cultural or legal concerns. This data includes modeling based on global suicide patterns, and includes...

ourworldindata.org

Here is how it looks in different parts of the world, from my research it mostly comes to method chosen which you can look at it here

QuickStats: Age-Adjusted Suicide Rates, by Sex and Three Most...

The three most common methods of suicide among males and females during 2000–2018 were by firearm, suffocation, and poisoning. Throughout the period 2000–2018, suicide rates by all methods were higher among males than among females, with the greatest difference in the rates for suicide by firearm.

www.cdc.gov

its for USA Tho, we can see that men predominately used firearms and hanging as a method, it clearly explains this phenomena in USA.

It doesnt in like, others parts of the world like in Poland its like 7,4 times more often which is one of the worst stats in the region and one of the worst in the WORLD (literally NOONE talks about it here tho =/ its an unexistent issue in public discussion =c ) and overall eastern europe have higher stats in this regard. Its complicated issue here, but i read an article in some journal about it. And we dont have access to firearms obv, i dont have energy to look for it but from what i remember men in poland CTB mainly by hanging.

https://pressto.amu.edu.pl/index.php/sr/article/download/24505/24903/57241

If i remember they pinpoint many reasons for it including: Gender roles, pressure on men for being breadproviders and failing to do so, transphobia and homophobia and overall premise to be a 'real men'. Its like eastern european macho culture here.

 

[Languish]

this is all cultural and passed down through the "boys don't cry" hypermasc patriarchy in the west. it is by no means scientific that men feel less than women or women feel more than men. in pre westernized east asia, it was in fact the opposite- women were unfeeling and cold (yin) and men were the feeling ones (yang). even up until the victorian era, women were seen as less intelligent and by proxy less feeling

We also used to believe the Earth was flat and the world was the center of the galaxy. Women have much more estrogen as well as periods, and have historically been treated as less than by men, so naturally many women in the past who spent their lives as objects (especially in East Asia, Mariko from Shogun is an excellent example of this) were severely depressed because they had no control over how their life went, hence the misconception that they were unfeeling. Women are prone to more intense emotion due to high estrogen levels and menstruation. Men also are prone to high emotion, but typically it is more aggressive due to testosterone levels boosting "masculine" traits, hence why men more commonly punch walls and beat their wives. However.. yes, the "boys don't cry" societal norm does exacerbate these issues. Not only does it increase the suicide rate in men, it also increases the likelyhood that they will become violent in general, such as snapping and killing their wife. I was raised by a hyper aggressive male who abused me in many ways before killing his girlfriend and himself in a high speed collision when she threatened to leave him. I spent my life growing up experiencing first hand what hypermasculinity can lead to at its worst. Thankfully I did not end up a misandrist, I just wish the world had been kinder to him, and then perhaps he'd have been kinder to me.

 

[Zaphkiel]

Because we are more prone to use very effective solution and throw cautiousness out of the windows than women.
All studies said the same about numbers (like 80% + of suicides attempts are male) , and effectiveness (males wins).
It's also because men ggets more desperate than women. if you look at those stat, for example it happens at key point like a divorce.
Finding a woman for a man is more difficult than the revserse scenario. So we can getmore desperate in a social standpoint, and despite society paying men better salaries for example, it is not what matters the most to us in those case.

 

[brokeandbroken]

Men also aren't more prone to loneliness. At least from what I've seen, a lot of statistics I have found were pretty mixed. Some found that women on average were more likely to report feeling lonely, others found the opposite, and some found no difference in reports of loneliness between the genders. It seems as though the "make loneliness epidemic" is more of a general loneliness epidemic, tbh

Sorry but definitionally they are while loneliness is increasing across the board specifically the last 30 years or so. Men still have far weaker social networks and significantly more have 0 friends. Something like 15% of men vs 10% for women. In terms of who they reach out to support half of men versus 30 years ago reach out to friends first 45% 1990 22% today. In 1990 40% of men reported having 10 or more friends. Today that number is 15%. These numbers get worse as you go younger with 28% of men under 30 reporting 0 close friends. There is a loneliness epidemic but men are statistically to be the victims in this regard.

The answer to the question OP asked is men choose more violent methods and lethal methods.

 

[Languish]

First off, women actually attempt more on average, it's just that men tend to succeed more. To add onto this, the gender gap in suicide has actually been closing over the past few years due to women increasingly using more lethal suicidal methods (particularly hanging).

Also, nowadays most households are two-income households. Men generally aren't the soul breadwinners anymore. Thus, the whole "men are expected to single-handedly provide" thing doesn't apply to the vast majority of men (at least those in the West). Funnily enough, there have been increasing issues with women having to both work and take care of the vast majority of household and childrearing duties.

Secondly, self-harm is actually a lot more common among men than people realize, it's just that it tends to be underreported. If I remember correctly, around 35% of men admit to self-harming. This statistic is likely even higher than that. Along with that, while cutting is a more popular method among women, men still self-harm through other means, such as hitting themselves. Depressed men also tend to turn to drugs and alcohol more as an outlet, along with engaging in plenty of other types of self-destructive behaviours.

Along with that, many who cut do it to feel something, not just to "let out their feelings". In reality, people's reasoning behind why they cut tends to vary a lot and cannot be generalized to just letting out their feelings. Many women do it as a result of feeling numb and wanting to feel something. Also, a lot of depressed men let out their feelings in their own way, especially through engaging in other types of self-destructive behaviours.

Men also aren't more prone to loneliness. At least from what I've seen, a lot of statistics I have found were pretty mixed. Some found that women on average were more likely to report feeling lonely, others found the opposite, and some found no difference in reports of loneliness between the genders. It seems as though the "make loneliness epidemic" is more of a general loneliness epidemic, tbh.

Thirdly, as of now, the general consensus seems to be that women are actually more prone to depression, not men (they are twice as likely to be diagnosed with it). Women are more likely to be diagnosed with the disorder and why depression is more common amongst women is still something that is being looked into, at least from what I remember. Some think that it may have to do with hormonal factors, some years back research found that it could be due to our diagnostic criteria for the disorder potentially overlooking symptoms of depression that are more common in men (though, that study found that when using their new diagnostic criteria that it was equal between the genders, if I remember correctly), it might be due to societal factors that impact women, etc. For now, it seems as though the general consensus is that women are more prone to depression in general, not men.

There are also plenty of women who have never had suitors before either. Hell, there have been women on this site who have talked about having never had luck with men before and feeling depressed over not being able to find love.

Women also aren't treasured. Wider society tends to treat us as things and people are very quick to attack women over small things. Hell, despite what people think, thanks to what happened with the Titanic, women (and children) historically had lower rates of survival compared to men when it comes to maritime disasters. There are plenty of cases of women getting blamed for being raped and abused. There are so many cases of female celebrities being shamed for shit that isn't a big deal and being made fun of in the middle of their mental breakdowns. If I remember correctly, there was a case on TikTok where a man murdered his ex and everyone was siding with him. I've seen men, and even some women, celebrate men hitting women. In the black community, there is a history of black men devaluing black women and making fun of them while also objectifying them simultaneously (not all, but enough that it's become a prominent discussion within the black community). We aren't "treasured", we are treated like shit. This is especially the case for women of colour (especially black and Indigenous women), fat women, poor women, queer women, older women, and basically any woman who doesn't meet our narrow societal expectations of what it means to be a woman.


I do agree that men have their own issues that they have to deal with, such as with them not being taken seriously when it comes to being raped, abused, or sexually harassed (especially when it is at the hands of women), to issues with them being expected to be hypersexual. However, I disagree with a lot of the conclusions you have come to. I feel like some of them are either partly or entirely wrong and I also feel like your last point about women at least being "treasured" doesn't hold up well to scrutiny, especially when we look at the ways in which women from particularly vulnerable and very marginalized demographics are treated.

I will not disagree with you on many of the points you mentioned, as they are things I am aware of and considerations I made. I could have written a significantly longer post on exactly why all my conclusions were reached, but I didn't imagine it'd be read, so I streamlined things. I will reply to each point individually.

-I have attempted in the past, many women here have. What I can say in my attempt was it was out if feeling too much, it was impulsive, half-hearter, and I knew full well there was a high chance it would fail. Many of my girlfriends have confided similar experiences to me. We fail more often because our attempts tend to be more half-hearted, where as a guy is more prone to risk-taking behavior, more aggressive in general, and will opt for more permanent means. Women may attempt more, but we also know our attempts are more half-hearted, and it is often the case where we know we may survive the attempt and part of us (survival instinct) hopes we do. If I truly wanted a permanent end, I would opt for a method in which I would not fail. If I am trying a method impulsively that I know may fail, it's because there is a large enough part of me that still wants to try, and hopes I get found, taken care of, get special treatment, attention, government assistance, therapy, and have potentially life changing/improving events forced on me that may better my life. This is me speaking personally. I am not saying all women attempt for attention. I would argue that this is a case that happens more often with women though. Many of us are not as deadset on death (not to say there aren't many of us who are) but look at a place like Eastern Europe with extreme hypermasculinity, a near 8x higher suicide rate in men, and no access to guns. Hypermasculinity expectations in society does lead to more men being deadset on death and opting for a very permanent method.

The one man household provider thing is indeed something more relegated to the past, but still is an expectation often applied on todays men. I can say that I certainly would love to not have to work, and would love a partner who took care of me. Work drastically lowers my mental health. If I were not queer, I would actively seek a man who could provide, but also who I could love, so I could live the ideal life. Sadly it is not easy for me to find a woman capable of providing for me in the same way, so we must both work to provide, and my depression worsens.

Yes self harm is evident in men. Moreso blunt. They seek out fights more often. Punch walls. Punch their legs. Hit their head on things. Of course men self harm. I was very specifically referring to cutting. Women /are/ more prone to cutting. And yes sometimes it is to feel, and not to let out overwhelming feeling. There are many reasons one may cut. I just did not wish to write a book and mention each and every one.

Men are actively more prone to loneliness, because they have to seek out attention. If a woman is lonely, it tends to be because she chooses to not have anyone, or because she is unattractive. I have guy friends who I'd consider attractive, who are lonely because they don't want to annoy women by catcalling and asking them out. Meanwhile I and every woman I know, tend to get flirted with regularly. I could at any point have someone and not be lonely. I have so many options I can simply choose from. Men on the other hand do not get pursued in the same way, especially if they isolate. Women are also twice as likely to be diagnosed with depression because they're much more likely to be honest about what they feel medically. Men don't opt for help as often. They don't see therapists as often. They don't checkmark the depression boxes at doctors as often. They do not want to be perceived as weak, and often enough the depression is so normalized in men and masked as stoicism, that many may not even realize they are depressed. This is not to undermine the depression of women. Humans suffer depression, this is not a competition nor does it need to be treated as one. In the end it actually doesn't care who is more prone to loneliness or depression. These are misfortunes endured by many, regardless of gender. I was replying to the thread as to why men specifically kill themselves more often, I will not deny a womans depression, or loneliness, or that they attempt often. I am a depressed, lonely woman despite my options - they're not options that I'd want. Having many men who want me, as a queer woman, does nothing for me. I wish women would pursue me, but we don't pursue as often as I'd like.

And perhaps you misunderstood when I said women were treasured. Think trophy wife. Women may not be treasured as human beings, but we are treasured as objects. We are treasured for beauty, and placed on a pedestal, more rigorously judged. A man could sleep with 20 women by the age of 30 and be seen as underperforming. A woman could sleep with 20 men by the age of 30 and be seen as a whore. We are held to a higher standard because we are treasured. If you play an online game, you are far more likely to be helped, and have people want to do things for you, if you're female. Not only do women tend to be kinder and more affectionate to each other than men are to other men, men are often softer to us as well. It is proper etiquette in men to not hit women. A moral virtue. That virtue does not apply with men hitting men, as that is deemed more acceptable. We are wanted more often. We are pursued more often. That is not to say we do not get manipulated or abused. That is not to say there aren't women that are treated like trash, or that are unwanted/unpursued. But women are undeniably treasured. Sure, men are more respected and seen as more intelligent, but they do not get as coddled. They have to be strong or be left behind. Ask a hundred women if they could function in society without men, and many would say yes. We want to believe we can do it all. We don't feel like we need men as they feel they need us. Ask a hundred men if they can function in society without women, many more will say no. Because we are what they do things for. We are what they want in life. We are who they have fought wars over, and killed each other for. We are why they push themselves so hard. Whether they value us as humans to love, or objects to fuck, we are treasured and desired. And yes, this does mainly apply to desireable women. Fat, older women, or queer/trans women generally will not be valued as highly. Fat men are also less desireable. Older men.. well many women like older men, and men generally prefer younger women. This is biological imperative from our lizard brains seeking to breed. Older men are valued for higher experience and income, younger women are valued for their beauty and fertility. And naturally men value queer women less, because we're not options for men. And men value transwomen less, because many of them cannot separate the idea that they used to be a man, from the fact they chose to become a woman. These cases do not mean that women in general, in an idealized sense of the young and beautiful, are not treasured. Those are merely the exceptions. And while there may be more older, fat, ugly, or queer/trans women then there are young and beautiful women, when a man thinks of "Women" his mind will far more immediately jump to the younger and beautiful ones, thus the concept of women, and the way we are treasured, is based on the ideal. As a woman, even if you are fat, trans, ugly, and queer, if you are in an online game and no one knows how you look, only that you are female - you will be strove for, and treated like the ideal. You will have people pursue you and bend over backwards for you. That will of course fall off when a picture of you is sent - but without that picture, men will always have the "ideal" woman in mind when talking to one online.

In conclusion, when I make a specific point, it is not to say it is 100% certain or that there aren't others who don't apply to that, or aren't variables in general. There is always much more to be said about any consideration, than what is mentioned. That does not mean they were not considerations, or that I am ignorant to such things. It just meant I did not feel like writing a novel and being entirely, specifically detailed about every plausible variable and possibility. Instead I streamlined the post, to the specific point I was making, about why men kill themselves more often. So of course the post will seem to favor men, and seem to take away from a woman's struggles, but that is not the intent. I could write a whole novel about the struggles women endure, and why life can be so difficult for us as well. Why many of us are suicidal, and how society crushes us as well. But this post did not ask about women. It asked about men, and I gave an answer from my perspective as a queer woman. I am just one person. I am sure if you ask 10 different people, you will get 10 different perspectives. This is mine, and whether you respect that, or even agree with it, it doesn't change that this is my perspective. You don't have to believe I'm right, but judging by reactions to my initial post, many agree with what I said, and do believe my perspective has merit.

 

[tiredoflife2]

It is not that men are more successful at suicide. It is just that this world puts more pressure on them, so many are just more prone to suicide. Even out of trans suicides, MtF is significantly more common than FtM and MtF are more shunned in general. Society runs at a point where a man is meant to single handedly provide, show no emotion, and has to be the one pursuant of romantic interest. With inflation, it is increasingly more difficult to provide. In withholding emotion, they kill their hearts. Also many men just don't have it in them to pursue romantic interests, and wish they could be the ones letting love come to them.

Men tend to be prone to depression (lack of emotion, rather than a womans overwhelming emotion) in general. This is also why women cut much more often than men, as they cut to let out all they feel. Many men don't feel as though they feel anything, so cutting doesn't help the same way. Men are more prone to loneliness as well.

I have always felt lucky as a woman, that if I ever wanted love, I had plenty of suitors and could let it in with whoever I chose. I know men who have gone their entire lives without a suitor. Being a man seems so competitive and there are so many that just don't seem cut out for what society expects of them. Being a woman has it's share of issues as well, but we generally have more of a support system around us, people we can lean on. Women are often objectified, but at least we are treasured. Men are all too often treated as unimportant and cast aside. I get very sad for them just thinking about all they have to endure., just for being born male.

In the UK they treat men quite badly, loads are homeless. Somebody's son, yet people don't care. It's sad

 

[Redacted24]

...I want to be successful too...

 

[JesiBel]

Well, maybe because men are often more impulsive and determined. Men are still brought up under the motto that they "must be strong and brave" or those kinds of things that are considered "more manly." Maybe that's why they also choose more brutal methods.

 

[particularrodent]

Women have much more estrogen as well as periods, and have historically been treated as less than by men, so naturally many women in the past who spent their lives as objects (especially in East Asia, Mariko from Shogun is an excellent example of this) were severely depressed because they had no control over how their life went, hence the misconception that they were unfeeling. Women are prone to more intense emotion due to high estrogen levels and menstruation. Men also are prone to high emotion, but typically it is more aggressive due to testosterone levels boosting "masculine" traits, hence why men more commonly punch walls and beat their wives.

saying women are more emotional due to "hormones and periods" is common dudebro rhetoric for why women should not have leadership positions and are less intelligent than men, which is what i am trying to point out with your faulty and again, unscientific claim based entirely on anecdotes and stereotypes. the very reason men 1) seem to have less emotion and 2) more commonly punch walls and beat their wives is intrinsically tied to how men are taught from birth to not express their emotions healthily. it is by no means biological or "programmed" for men to treat others like this or act in these ways

also please note that mariko from shogun is a fictional character and that the feelings of the historical figure that inspired her are impossible to know. women being treated as objects isn't exclusive to east asian culture. the reason i brought it up was to challenge your stereotyping: these stereotypes have only existed for a tiny fraction of time in the form you said them in

And perhaps you misunderstood when I said women were treasured. Think trophy wife. Women may not be treasured as human beings, but we are treasured as objects. We are treasured for beauty, and placed on a pedestal, more rigorously judged. A man could sleep with 20 women by the age of 30 and be seen as underperforming. A woman could sleep with 20 men by the age of 30 and be seen as a whore. We are held to a higher standard because we are treasured. If you play an online game, you are far more likely to be helped, and have people want to do things for you, if you're female. Not only do women tend to be kinder and more affectionate to each other than men are to other men, men are often softer to us as well. It is proper etiquette in men to not hit women. A moral virtue. That virtue does not apply with men hitting men, as that is deemed more acceptable. We are wanted more often. We are pursued more often. That is not to say we do not get manipulated or abused. That is not to say there aren't women that are treated like trash, or that are unwanted/unpursued. But women are undeniably treasured. Sure, men are more respected and seen as more intelligent, but they do not get as coddled. They have to be strong or be left behind. Ask a hundred women if they could function in society without men, and many would say yes. We want to believe we can do it all. We don't feel like we need men as they feel they need us. Ask a hundred men if they can function in society without women, many more will say no. Because we are what they do things for. We are what they want in life. We are who they have fought wars over, and killed each other for. We are why they push themselves so hard. Whether they value us as humans to love, or objects to fuck, we are treasured and desired. And yes, this does mainly apply to desireable women. Fat, older women, or queer/trans women generally will not be valued as highly. Fat men are also less desireable. Older men.. well many women like older men, and men generally prefer younger women. This is biological imperative from our lizard brains seeking to breed. Older men are valued for higher experience and income, younger women are valued for their beauty and fertility. And naturally men value queer women less, because we're not options for men. And men value transwomen less, because many of them cannot separate the idea that they used to be a man, from the fact they chose to become a woman. These cases do not mean that women in general, in an idealized sense of the young and beautiful, are not treasured. Those are merely the exceptions. And while there may be more older, fat, ugly, or queer/trans women then there are young and beautiful women, when a man thinks of "Women" his mind will far more immediately jump to the younger and beautiful ones, thus the concept of women, and the way we are treasured, is based on the ideal. As a woman, even if you are fat, trans, ugly, and queer, if you are in an online game and no one knows how you look, only that you are female - you will be strove for, and treated like the ideal. You will have people pursue you and bend over backwards for you. That will of course fall off when a picture of you is sent - but without that picture, men will always have the "ideal" woman in mind when talking to one online.

the way you talk about this is all over the place... "women may not be treasured as human beings, but we are treasured as objects" --> "men fight wars for us" ?????

you bring up online games a strange amount of times in this message. don't you know women are regularly berated and seen as lesser when playing games? as fakers trying to get male attention, less skilled, and only desired for their sexual value? i can't begin to point out every stereotypical heteronormative thing you just said (as a queer woman, i am surprised) but men only "can't function without women" because they use us to do chores that they feel they're above doing after they manage to find a female partner. besides a bit of usefulness in that sector we're otherwise street litter to them

there are a few correct things youve said here and in your og post, like men needing to be strong or left behind. that's a very large factor in male suicide... but the phrase "transwomen choose to become women" is very... not the best way to phrase that

 

[slinkey10]

I will not disagree with you on many of the points you mentioned, as they are things I am aware of and considerations I made. I could have written a significantly longer post on exactly why all my conclusions were reached, but I didn't imagine it'd be read, so I streamlined things. I will reply to each point individually.

-I have attempted in the past, many women here have. What I can say in my attempt was it was out if feeling too much, it was impulsive, half-hearter, and I knew full well there was a high chance it would fail. Many of my girlfriends have confided similar experiences to me. We fail more often because our attempts tend to be more half-hearted, where as a guy is more prone to risk-taking behavior, more aggressive in general, and will opt for more permanent means. Women may attempt more, but we also know our attempts are more half-hearted, and it is often the case where we know we may survive the attempt and part of us (survival instinct) hopes we do. If I truly wanted a permanent end, I would opt for a method in which I would not fail. If I am trying a method impulsively that I know may fail, it's because there is a large enough part of me that still wants to try, and hopes I get found, taken care of, get special treatment, attention, government assistance, therapy, and have potentially life changing/improving events forced on me that may better my life. This is me speaking personally. I am not saying all women attempt for attention. I would argue that this is a case that happens more often with women though. Many of us are not as deadset on death (not to say there aren't many of us who are) but look at a place like Eastern Europe with extreme hypermasculinity, a near 8x higher suicide rate in men, and no access to guns. Hypermasculinity expectations in society does lead to more men being deadset on death and opting for a very permanent method.

The one man household provider thing is indeed something more relegated to the past, but still is an expectation often applied on todays men. I can say that I certainly would love to not have to work, and would love a partner who took care of me. Work drastically lowers my mental health. If I were not queer, I would actively seek a man who could provide, but also who I could love, so I could live the ideal life. Sadly it is not easy for me to find a woman capable of providing for me in the same way, so we must both work to provide, and my depression worsens.

Yes self harm is evident in men. Moreso blunt. They seek out fights more often. Punch walls. Punch their legs. Hit their head on things. Of course men self harm. I was very specifically referring to cutting. Women /are/ more prone to cutting. And yes sometimes it is to feel, and not to let out overwhelming feeling. There are many reasons one may cut. I just did not wish to write a book and mention each and every one.

Men are actively more prone to loneliness, because they have to seek out attention. If a woman is lonely, it tends to be because she chooses to not have anyone, or because she is unattractive. I have guy friends who I'd consider attractive, who are lonely because they don't want to annoy women by catcalling and asking them out. Meanwhile I and every woman I know, tend to get flirted with regularly. I could at any point have someone and not be lonely. I have so many options I can simply choose from. Men on the other hand do not get pursued in the same way, especially if they isolate. Women are also twice as likely to be diagnosed with depression because they're much more likely to be honest about what they feel medically. Men don't opt for help as often. They don't see therapists as often. They don't checkmark the depression boxes at doctors as often. They do not want to be perceived as weak, and often enough the depression is so normalized in men and masked as stoicism, that many may not even realize they are depressed. This is not to undermine the depression of women. Humans suffer depression, this is not a competition nor does it need to be treated as one. In the end it actually doesn't care who is more prone to loneliness or depression. These are misfortunes endured by many, regardless of gender. I was replying to the thread as to why men specifically kill themselves more often, I will not deny a womans depression, or loneliness, or that they attempt often. I am a depressed, lonely woman despite my options - they're not options that I'd want. Having many men who want me, as a queer woman, does nothing for me. I wish women would pursue me, but we don't pursue as often as I'd like.

And perhaps you misunderstood when I said women were treasured. Think trophy wife. Women may not be treasured as human beings, but we are treasured as objects. We are treasured for beauty, and placed on a pedestal, more rigorously judged. A man could sleep with 20 women by the age of 30 and be seen as underperforming. A woman could sleep with 20 men by the age of 30 and be seen as a whore. We are held to a higher standard because we are treasured. If you play an online game, you are far more likely to be helped, and have people want to do things for you, if you're female. Not only do women tend to be kinder and more affectionate to each other than men are to other men, men are often softer to us as well. It is proper etiquette in men to not hit women. A moral virtue. That virtue does not apply with men hitting men, as that is deemed more acceptable. We are wanted more often. We are pursued more often. That is not to say we do not get manipulated or abused. That is not to say there aren't women that are treated like trash, or that are unwanted/unpursued. But women are undeniably treasured. Sure, men are more respected and seen as more intelligent, but they do not get as coddled. They have to be strong or be left behind. Ask a hundred women if they could function in society without men, and many would say yes. We want to believe we can do it all. We don't feel like we need men as they feel they need us. Ask a hundred men if they can function in society without women, many more will say no. Because we are what they do things for. We are what they want in life. We are who they have fought wars over, and killed each other for. We are why they push themselves so hard. Whether they value us as humans to love, or objects to fuck, we are treasured and desired. And yes, this does mainly apply to desireable women. Fat, older women, or queer/trans women generally will not be valued as highly. Fat men are also less desireable. Older men.. well many women like older men, and men generally prefer younger women. This is biological imperative from our lizard brains seeking to breed. Older men are valued for higher experience and income, younger women are valued for their beauty and fertility. And naturally men value queer women less, because we're not options for men. And men value transwomen less, because many of them cannot separate the idea that they used to be a man, from the fact they chose to become a woman. These cases do not mean that women in general, in an idealized sense of the young and beautiful, are not treasured. Those are merely the exceptions. And while there may be more older, fat, ugly, or queer/trans women then there are young and beautiful women, when a man thinks of "Women" his mind will far more immediately jump to the younger and beautiful ones, thus the concept of women, and the way we are treasured, is based on the ideal. As a woman, even if you are fat, trans, ugly, and queer, if you are in an online game and no one knows how you look, only that you are female - you will be strove for, and treated like the ideal. You will have people pursue you and bend over backwards for you. That will of course fall off when a picture of you is sent - but without that picture, men will always have the "ideal" woman in mind when talking to one online.

In conclusion, when I make a specific point, it is not to say it is 100% certain or that there aren't others who don't apply to that, or aren't variables in general. There is always much more to be said about any consideration, than what is mentioned. That does not mean they were not considerations, or that I am ignorant to such things. It just meant I did not feel like writing a novel and being entirely, specifically detailed about every plausible variable and possibility. Instead I streamlined the post, to the specific point I was making, about why men kill themselves more often. So of course the post will seem to favor men, and seem to take away from a woman's struggles, but that is not the intent. I could write a whole novel about the struggles women endure, and why life can be so difficult for us as well. Why many of us are suicidal, and how society crushes us as well. But this post did not ask about women. It asked about men, and I gave an answer from my perspective as a queer woman. I am just one person. I am sure if you ask 10 different people, you will get 10 different perspectives. This is mine, and whether you respect that, or even agree with it, it doesn't change that this is my perspective. You don't have to believe I'm right, but judging by reactions to my initial post, many agree with what I said, and do believe my perspective has merit.

"In conclusion, when I make a specific point, it is not to say it is 100% certain or that there aren't others who don't apply to that, or aren't variables in general. There is always much more to be said about any consideration, than what is mentioned. That does not mean they were not considerations, or that I am ignorant to such things. It just meant I did not feel like writing a novel and being entirely, specifically detailed about every plausible variable and possibility. Instead I streamlined the post, to the specific point I was making, about why men kill themselves more often"

soo true... its impossible to answer/conceive every angle and explain every minute detail on a forum.... especialy on this forum when so many expect black & white examples. It becomes so frustrating having to unpick and answer every point you're called out on - or think like that which totally kills the fluidty ...
I admire you answered I wouldnt have bothered.... :)

 

[ShatteredSerenity]

I suspect social support has a huge role to play. The women I know have numerous friends to talk to, whereas I have nobody I could actually chat with for meaningful emotional support. I have one friend who's suicidal and she sleeping with multiple guys a week to deal with the pain, that's not an option I have access to. Women also seem to have more medications on hand to make OD tempting. I know women who slip into a marriage situation that keeps them afloat despite mental health issues that would bankrupt a single person. Finally, having children is a big instinct to keep living to care for the child. As a father I experience this, too, but it's certainly stronger for most women.

All the factors add up to make men statistically more likely to make a more serious lethal attempt. I don't have a strong support network, so a failed attempt would just be lonely and made me suffer even more. I have technical knowledge from years of maintaining houses and a few blue collar jobs, so I'm comfortable putting together a method with high success rate. I wish it didn't come to this, but our society has certain flaws that leave me no better options.