Why is it so bad to tell someone I hope their life gets better rather than jump the gun and say “yeah you should CTB bud, go on”

[buoy]

I want to be there for people in a way that others haven't been. A way I wish people were there for me. That's why I'm here, nobody listens the way I wish they would and people here understand different facet's of the desire to CTB or depression.

I want to be here as a resource to possibly influence some comfort/happiness in life. I understand the right to CTB, and those who are dedicated, I'll be there for a warm goodbye.

What the fuck is the big deal about wishing someone happiness before wishing them an easy premature finality of death. I want whats best for people but I can't understand why I'm the villain for trying to be present in peoples lives while they're here.

 

[FuneralCry]

If you are referring to this site in the post, then people on here don't say "just go and ctb", instead they respect the choice that the person has already made for themselves as that is what pro-choice means and this is a pro-choice suicide forum.

Sorry but other people's decisions aren't about what you want, of course if you want to live that's your choice but other people aren't you, they cannot experience existence in the same way, I wish people would accept that not everyone sees existence as something desirable.

And anyway the suicide discussion section is meant to be a place free from pro-lifers, people come there to escape from pro-lifers with their toxic positivity pushing the idea that there is "happiness". If you want to support those who want to continue existing then there is the recovery section for that.

 

[buoy]

Does anything I said here sound anti choice? Or that I'm forcing any ideation on anyone? I'm not talking about the suicide discussion thread either, that's there for warm goodbyes and resources. Part of being pro choice is that there IS A CHOICE, and if someone is there for you in your dark moments, you might actually HAVE a choice.

I just don't know why it's an affront to people when I just say "I hope you find happiness in life and if not I'll be here for you."

 

[BlackMoon]

We want to CtB mostly because our lives can't get better, it's the whole point. It's harmful for me when someone say me this kind of things, "Wish you to get better" (especially after telling them I have suicidal thoughts), it's only reminding me how much I'm abnormal to be at such point of misery that such pro-life wishes are completely unrealistic. I don't need that.
Also it's assuming you know better someone' life than themself, don't you think we already tried to get things better, to improve our situation?
No one from what I saw want to push others to CtB, it's just about not violating the boundaries of people wanting to CtB and respecting their choice, by assuming they already well thought about it under all possible aspects.

 

[the_summoning]

I'm sure your heart is in the right place OP and you sound like a sweet person who just wants to help. However, the issue is that it comes across as an empty platitude because its just one of the many phrases suicidal people hear literally all the time. After a while, its like water off a ducks back. I think it would be best to wait until that person, whether IRL or online, asks for a sympathetic ear and then go ahead and offer support.

 

[gbi2]

I think to someone who is so badly depressed and feeling hopeless, the words mean nothing, in fact they come across as the opposite as they are intended, like the speaker just wants to act like they care, but doesn't really.

If the person you say it to has been through a lot of help which has failed, it becomes the norm for them to feel like anything anyone does or says is faux compassion and they are only doing it to justify their paid role or to absolve themselves of guilt so ultimately it doesn't mean anything.

I suppose if someone says "I'm contacted someone for some adfvice, wish me luck" tehn saying "I hope you get the help you need" is apporpriate, but if someone says "I'm suicidal because I've been bullied and lied about at work" thensaying "I hope you get the help you need" comes across as if you are saying "you are crazy and this is my way of ending this and future conversations about it, with you".

 

[R_N]

It is not bad but you have to understand that some people view life and death differently. They shouldn't attack you for it but challenging your views shouldn't be out of the picture either.

I personally can't interact much in goodbye threads because I feel weird about it. But I respect people making their own choices regardless if they ctb or not. I wish them as less suffering as possible in their final moments if it comes to it.

When it comes to goodbye threads in general I don't think any of us should try to influence others too much. They should go with their own flow and we should only try to offer them comfort. Not stray them from their own path in those particular types of threads. This might seem pro ctb but to me it is actually pro choice.

When people make a decision, it is made. There are other types of threads for giving advice that is oposite of what they decided.

 

[nozomu]

I don't think it's inappropriate to wish people easier circumstances to deal with, honestly. It doesn't make you pro-life to make it so someone isn't forced to commit suicide, as you said pro choice means there inherently has to be a choice.

 

[buoy]

I suppose if someone says "I'm contacted someone for some adfvice, wish me luck" tehn saying "I hope you get the help you need" is apporpriate, but if someone says "I'm suicidal because I've been bullied and lied about at work" thensaying "I hope you get the help you need" comes across as if you are saying "you are crazy and this is my way of ending this and future conversations about it, with you".

Someone saying I'm madly depressed and going to CTB because I'm bullied and alone, where I respond not with "i hope you get help" but with the sentiment that they might not have had: "I value you. Idk if you value you but I do, AND I will listen, only if you want. I HOPE you find happiness and if not, I'll be here."

I understand the sentiment that these ideas/comments can roll off of people's backs and also somehow numb emotions further. I really get it, this I experience sometimes. I'm just trying to make people feel less alone and let them know that someone is here rooting for them…

I just guess I'm realizing that I have no one to listen/understand/relate to me IRL and nobody else here will either and that I'm really not valid or belong anywhere…

Not to turn this around and make it about me. So sorry for lumping the last sentiment in there.

 

[Sprite_Geist]

There is nothing wrong with wishing for someone to get better, as long as the other person's choice on what to do next is respected. I can understand why certain users would not want somebody else to wish for their lives to get better, because they might not even want to live anymore, and the offer of help might be perceived as trying to override their decision to die even if this is not the intention. However: there are definitely situations in which a suicidal person might actually be open to other suggestions, and this is totally okay too; though how are we supposed to know if a given individual would like to discuss other options if we cannot check first? Again: it all comes down to respecting the choice(s) of other people.

A person has the choice to offer help as long as they are not imposing it on the other (suicidal) party, and likewise a suicidal person has the choice to reject said help - especially if they are certain about their plans. If you believe that suicide is not immoral (like me) it does not make you "pro-death", and offering (but not forcing) help does not make you "pro-life" either.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's kind to offer. It's kind that you care but I would say- not everyone will want your help. Some people have had people in real life tell them how much they care and then- they abandon them. So- some people here may have a distrust of people and friendship. Others may have people in real life that care deeply about them but that still isn't enough to change the way they feel. Others may not see this setting (as in- a stranger on the internet) being the best place to create something genuine.

Personally, I hope I wouldn't be rude to someone who was basically kind to me but ultimately- I'm not looking for someone to try and solve my problems or tell me things are going to be ok. Both of those things are down to me.

People here also generally hate platitudes. We've probably heard them so much in life that we come here to get away from them. I guess they just don't align with reality for a lot of us. So- that may be triggering people if you are receiving flack.

As others have mentioned though- the 'Recovery Section' may be the best place to go if you are looking to help people. Also- just judging the tone of the post. If someone seems to want advice and support- then- great but- if their mind seems made up, they may not respond well to someone contradicting them- even in a kind way.

 

[Celerity]

This will be a point of contention here until this site gets taken down. There is no one right answer, and I would not engage with people who are extremely dogmatic about this. Take comfort in the fact that many people on here feel as you do.

 

[Suicidebydeath]

It depends on how you say it, what you say, and to whom, and the circumstances.

I'm going to be devil's advocate(kinda) but also I'm not sure if you're referring to something that happened and I also think that every story has 2 sides and people telling their side aren't necessarily giving the whole story. Where exactly were you accused of being the villain, is this something that actually happened or is it just something to do with how you feel?

Also I don't think that just one outlier calling you a villain would really justify the way things are presented, so it could be disingenuous to suggest that you're the villain for saying these things when in fact that isn't the case. It's hard to say since there are no examples of what actually happened. Also I'm going to double down on the title at least being disingenuous because what you said would be tantamount to encouraging ctb and that is extremely frowned upon here, that is actually a bad thing, something that both mods and community enforce. So saying that it's worse than that seems untruthful at best.

Anyway, so saying something like "I hope you find happiness in life" - and I don't know whether you said that or not but you gave it as an example, but it could be taken as a rejection of someone's decision to ctb. The decision of someone to ctb is part of someone's personal autonomy and denying that is offensive to them. It would be similar if someone was talking about wanting to die and they did not want to be talked out of it, then saying something similar could be considered inconsiderate. As someone else posted, not everybody wants help or specific kinds of help either. Ignoring somebody's wishes is what I would consider to be rude.

People here also really hate platitudes, some people mean well but they are not good at expressing themselves, so if someone is expressing themselves with good intentions but in a way that is upsetting people then it is really for the best of everybody that they stop, take a step back, and reconsider best how they can express themselves in a way that doesn't upset people instead. Instead of blaming the other person/people for getting upset.

As an example, saying something like that in someone's ctb thread could potentially rub someone up the wrong way because you're essentially implying that they shouldn't ctb. A lot of people expressly write into their ctb OP that they do not want to be deterred from the decision. So writing "I hope you find happiness in life" after somebody had already expressed that, in a goodbye thread, could be considered inconsiderate of the OP's feelings and decision up that point. No ctb threads are easy, it's a hard decision enough for many people.

So how you say it, what you actually said, to whom and the circumstances do matter imo.