Why Hope is Worse than Suffering

[Kittens_&_BabySeals]

I think the crux of everything well meaning people say to me to dissuade me from suicide is essentially to have HOPE.

Everyone talks about "living in the present moment" But when you say you're considering CTB because your past is an unfurling ribbon of pain trailing behind you, and your present waking moments are torture, then they're all like "no wait wait wait, actually try living in the future where maybe you won't be suffering?? Just do that instead, ya know, cuz it gets better!!! This too shall pass!! Oh it's been 28 yrs and it's only gotten worse? Well um, just hold on bc it'll get better... have HOPE!!!"

How is living for a future that literally, by the virtue of being the future, does not exist, supposed to be a compelling argument to dissuade someone from killing themselves?

What I hear is, continue to suffer but do so more patiently, just in case there may be some point in the unknown future in which you maybe will not be suffering, for however briefly. Hope is just patiently suffering, but worse because now it's been saddled with expectations.

 

[jodes2]

Hope is important though, it tells you things might get better, and that's worth hanging around for

 

[ArchmagePrincess]

Definitely feel this. Hope has certainly kept me around a long time but if those hopes are unfounded or unrealistic they're just more painful than the suffering itself. If you expect to suffer it'll just be suffering, but if you expect things to turn out okay and you just continue to suffer or things get even worse it feels so much worse than just accepting the reality suffering was going to happen. It's a frustrating and invalidating thing to be told, sorry you have to hear it from so many people.

 

[MidnightDream]

I get where you're coming from. It's always 'live in the moment!!' until it's all 'it gets better, just hold on!!'
Can't have it both ways yk.

 

[Rainy_days]

I guess it is the difference between false and genuine hope. These people would be more helpful offering you real reasons to feel hope than just telling you to feel it.

 

[Kittens_&_BabySeals]

I guess it is the difference between false and genuine hope. These people would be more helpful offering you real reasons to feel hope than just telling you to feel it.

In general I don't think people need a *real* reason to have hope. If by real we mean logical. Having hope that a loved one beats an aggressive cancer isn't based upon a realistic reason to have hope, since it's extremely unlikely they'll survive. The only reason to have hope is to use it as a tool to kick the grief down the road until they're forced to face it (when the person dies, in this example.)

I think for something more nebulous and less situation dependent, like progressive mental illness, the "real reason" to have hope is only some variation of "this too shall pass."

I feel like they only real/logical reason at this point for me to have hope for a different future, would be if there was some yet unknown treatment I haven't tried yet. And I've tried A LOT, even going into major debt for the more cutting-edge treatments. So it's hard for anyone to say anything concrete/logic-based for why the future warrants hope. Which, I mean, I get it. It seems like the very nature of hope is that it doesn't need a reason. It just. Ppl take that for granted.

Hope is important though, it tells you things might get better, and that's worth hanging around for

That's a sweet sentiment, but you're literally saying the exact thing I just said that everyone says. "Things might get better! Just continue to hang around (feeling bad) to see!!"

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Hope is a bully that hugs you while taping a kick-me sign to your back. Past a certain point hope is indistinguishable from religious faith and it's the individual's prerogative whether to trust in such a thing or not.

 

[rpxrpl]

I think most people trying to give advice haven't been in a suicidal state so they say things like this because it applies to them but not really for actually suicidal people. It's like telling someone who's sad to be happy. The root causes need to be addressed.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Yes, I feel frustrated by this kind of thing too. I think even worse though is the: 'things will work their way out in the end.' Like- good fortune will float into your life magically. Like 'hope' is some passive fairytale wish that comes true.

Random luck is not impossible of course but in my experience- most things in life you have to make happen yourself. Unless you are lucky enough to have a lot of people supporting you- and- even in that case- you need to have the courage to ask them for help- and they need to be in a position to be able to give it.

I find you try and try to change different aspects of your life in the 'hope' things will improve. Sometimes they will of course. Other times- you just get kicked in the teeth. Plus, if your overall experience of life- even the good bits has become jaded- you start to wonder if any of this 'trying to change' lark is really worth it.

You become 'hopeless' in which case- how do you get 'hope' back? Something REALLY good needs to happen I imagine to convince you it is still possible- but what if it doesn't happen? Despite all your effort? What if it does but you're still unhappy? Isn't that enough to confirm that 'hope' is useless?

I think a more realistic definition of 'have hope things will improve' is more along the lines of: 'Get out there and MAKE things improve. Make more effort to enjoy things in your life. If you REALLY can't change the things that are most troubling you- then- you're just going to have to accept them.' I think that's more realistic than some wish of hope.

I do get it to an extent... I think you definitely do need to initiate change yourself. I think it likely does help after that if you can have 'hope' that those things have the possibility of making your life better.

Still- that's one HUGE ask of a pessimist! We've already convinced ourselves that life is shit. Any time we have tried to change, we've ended up back in the shit. Why will the future be any different? I REALLY get you.

 

[Himalayan]

Yeah. You gonna need a lot of hope to attempt suicide though.

 

[WorthlessTrash]

Hope needs a foundation and logic to base it off of. Otherwise, you are meandering in life for something that very well won't happen. It's just a niche tactic people keep you living with, and doesn't have any merit. Most people who preach hope to you don't actually know whether or not there is any hope for you (they just say it for their savior complex/to make themselves feel good), they just say it because they lose nothing from doing so.

 

[FuneralCry]

The way that I view it, having hope will inevitably just lead us to be tortured more once we are forced to confront the harsh reality of this existence and if something perceived as being positive exists, it's only there just to be taken away and cause us to suffer. But usually those people who say things like 'just have hope' are usually very deluded and privileged.

They don't want to face the fact that wishing for suicide is certainly a rational response to existing in this world and they are in denial of the fact that existing really can be so awful for many people to the point that all that lies ahead for the person in the future is just endless suffering that will just get worse and torture them more. Those who force toxic positivity onto others are seriously disrespectful, what gives them the right to invalidate life experiences when they cannot view life the same way.

 

[sapphoslastpoem]

I'm convinced that people around me just tell me this so they can continue to see me suffer, I think they get off on it or something. Anytime I hear someone telling me "it'll get better, just wait" it feels fake as fuck and I'm pretty sure they just want to be around to watch me scramble in my own self-hatred and existential torture

 

[TakeMeBack07]

Do you think hope is not findable, is it even there?

 

[TAW122]

Having hope for the future is nothing more than taking a gamble on what (potential) harms comes into one's continued sentience (state of existence). When one exits suffering via CTB'ing or dying of another cause, then they no longer suffer.

 

[LifeCanBeCruel]

People say there is always hope. I truly believe they mean it. They'll offer no workable solution, mind you. It's just something they feel. If the solution doesn't exist yet, just wait for awhile... THERE'S ALWAYS HOPE! Maybe in some cases a solution is just around the corner. But that won't be true for all problems. In the end, if you have the luxury to wait and hope, do it, if life feels unbearable and there's no evidence that it will ever improve, I think it's unfair and cruel to wield hope like a weapon at someone who is suffering.

 

[timorousTruant]

I think the crux of everything well meaning people say to me to dissuade me from suicide is essentially to have HOPE.

Everyone talks about "living in the present moment" But when you say you're considering CTB because your past is an unfurling ribbon of pain trailing behind you, and your present waking moments are torture, then they're all like "no wait wait wait, actually try living in the future where maybe you won't be suffering?? Just do that instead, ya know, cuz it gets better!!! This too shall pass!! Oh it's been 28 yrs and it's only gotten worse? Well um, just hold on bc it'll get better... have HOPE!!!"

How is living for a future that literally, by the virtue of being the future, does not exist, supposed to be a compelling argument to dissuade someone from killing themselves?

What I hear is, continue to suffer but do so more patiently, just in case there may be some point in the unknown future in which you maybe will not be suffering, for however briefly. Hope is just patiently suffering, but worse because now it's been saddled with expectations.

Wow, I feel this. Pretty much any reasoning I get as to why I should stick around in response to my suicidal ideation is an empty reassurance that "this will pass," and "things will get better" with absolutely zero evidence to back it up. I could understand the sentiment were it in response to a problem that's very evidently temporary (like a breakup or some other incident). But hearing it in response to my severe anxiety disorder--which has only gotten worse with time despite my every effort to combat it--is incredibly unconvincing. Lmao, like "Wow??? you've been so miserable that you've been considering suicide since you were eleven or so years old, and your condition continues to worsen despite six years of medication and exposure therapy?? BUT in spite of all the evidence reasonably pointing to the conclusion that your living conditions are only going to get worse from here on out, I PROMISE you that it will get better and you'll be SO SO happy you decided to live." Fucking hilarious. When you ask for their reasoning as to why it will "probably" get better, they can't answer you. Verrrrryyy convincing. Yeah, I'll just change my mind and decide to live now on your word alone that life will, at some point for some reason, decide to stop kicking me in the balls.

 

[Maudlin]

Life is under no obligation to give us what we expect.

The past doesn't exist, the future doesn't exist. All we have is now.

Why waste it with hope and expectation?

Tolerate and navigate the now in the best way we can until it becomes impossible.

At that point, we're done... and we will see what, if anything, comes next.

 

[outrider567]

Don't know the meaning of the words 'hope things get better'