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DeIetedUser4739

Guest
Apr 21, 2024
428
The reason is because there's basically no readily available food source for humans to survive on without having to kill another creature and therefore inflict harm and suffering.

If there was a God testing us we should have been able to eat grass like most other mammals, but instead humans kill and eat those animals.

You might say there's plenty of fruit trees around but if you've ever been in forests and parks there's almost nothing around let alone enough to survive on, fruit is also seasonal and the trees don't contain it all year round.

We can now live a lifetime on a completely plant based diet but that's only because of modern civilization and all the advanced technology like farming and storage techniques to preserve fruits and vegetables along with vehicles, boats and planes that can transport it all over the world.

If there was a God s/he'd be a very unfair and heartless individual to allow all this pointless suffering to happen for no reason.
 
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pthnrdnojvsc

pthnrdnojvsc

Extreme Pain is much worse than people know
Aug 12, 2019
2,098
That's one out of many reasons

Another is there is no evidence for any god, afterlife, reincarnation, soul, spirits , ghosts , nothing supernatural, magic , multiverses , computer simulation , other dimensions
 
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Agon321

Agon321

I use google translate
Aug 21, 2023
1,079
I don't currently believe in any particular God and I understand your perspective.

But where does the idea that God must be "good", just, etc. come from?

A potential God may or may not care if x people die.
It may not matter to him.

Another thing is, what is God to you?
If there is any form of God, I believe that he is neither good nor evil.
It just exists.
He is an absolute.

For him, it doesn't matter whether you kill a million people or save a million people.
The concept of "good" and "evil" is subjective.
For him, killing is not necessarily the greatest act of evil.

He may have only created life in the entire Universe and does not interfere with it at all. He left the entire Universe to itself.
Why? I have no idea.
I'm just theorizing.

The next thing is that the universe is fucking gigantic.
There is a high probability that we are not alone.

If there is a God, does every species have a true God? I don't think so.
Especially since we are animals just like any other.
If aliens exist, they are also animals.

The concept of God is also complicated.
We will assume a purely theoretical scenario.
Let's say that humans evolved to a high level, so that we could travel to other planets.
If we met some other "intelligent" life form that was much less developed than our civilization, we would be like Gods to them.
They might even see us that way and pray to us.
But this is just my offtopic.

To sum up, I don't believe in any God now, but if he exists, I think he looks different than most religions present him.
The existence of a god also does not mean that reincarnation, for example, does not exist.
These things can come together.
 
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karmaisabitch

karmaisabitch

Mage
Mar 25, 2024
570
God most likely exist!! With all respect to other " believes"
 
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keg-ireland

keg-ireland

Member
May 3, 2024
52
I'm an atheist and have never believed in any God or God's. On saying that, belief in a better life after this one can bring a lot of comfort to believers so I wish I was as gullible and believed too.
 
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Worndown

Worndown

Visionary
Mar 21, 2019
2,602
If early mankind had the knowledge about the universe we have today, "God" might not be a concept. We have unravelled most of the mysteries of how and why we are here from life and planet to the universe.
Why is still unknown but devine intervention has much less credibility then it did 2000 years ago.
 
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Superdeterminist

Superdeterminist

Enlightened
Apr 5, 2020
1,877
1717263546814
Undefeated argument.
 
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Coconut blue

Coconut blue

Student
May 13, 2024
154
The abrahamic god is a sadist who enjoys suffering and at the same time uses his power to force humans to call him merciful if you ask me… just look at what happened to job lmao
 
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Dusk till dawn

Dusk till dawn

Student
Sep 7, 2018
148
God as depicted in religions just doesn't exist, his chances of existence is lower than 0.00000000000000000000000000000001 that it's not even worth considering the possibility of hell and such
 
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Neon Grave

Neon Grave

AuDHD, trying my best.
Apr 6, 2023
34
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karmaisabitch

karmaisabitch

Mage
Mar 25, 2024
570
Genuine question, what is your evidence to back up this belief?
I have no intention to discuss religion in suicidal forum. Although I'm suicidal but I have no energy to justify my believe, sorry.
 
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cosmic_traveler

cosmic_traveler

Eternal Spirit Experiencing a Human Moment
Dec 23, 2023
311
The reason is because there's basically no readily available food source for humans to survive on without having to kill another creature and therefore inflict harm and suffering.

If there was a God testing us we should have been able to eat grass like most other mammals, but instead humans kill and eat those animals.

You might say there's plenty of fruit trees around but if you've ever been in forests and parks there's almost nothing around let alone enough to survive on, fruit is also seasonal and the trees don't contain it all year round.

We can now live a lifetime on a completely plant based diet but that's only because of modern civilization and all the advanced technology like farming and storage techniques to preserve fruits and vegetables along with vehicles, boats and planes that can transport it all over the world.

If there was a God s/he'd be a very unfair and heartless individual to allow all this pointless suffering to happen for no reason.
If you could hold a potato in your hands and mold it into a human we would call you "The Creator". However that's exactly what you're doing when you eat that potato. Your body is just a collection of all the food you've eaten throughout your life.

"god" is not some omnipotent being, the universe created everything within it, the universe = "god".
 
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Endlichkeit

Endlichkeit

Tears do not burn except in solitude
Feb 26, 2023
58
Maybe the universe was created by an evil and foolish being, a false god, who tried to copy the divine world, but failed. Look up "gnosticism".
Genuine question, what is your evidence to back up this belief?
By definition, beliefs are held to be true, even if they cannot be empirically proven, so your question is meaningless.
 
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Neon Grave

Neon Grave

AuDHD, trying my best.
Apr 6, 2023
34
Maybe the universe was created by an evil and foolish being, a false god, who tried to copy the divine world, but failed. Look up "gnosticism".

By definition, beliefs are held to be true, even if they cannot be empirically proven, so your question is meaningless.

No need to be rude. It was just a question.
 
prisonerofexistence

prisonerofexistence

Why am i here?
May 26, 2024
29
I think a genuine answer to the qn of origin of life and the universe is "I don't know", for those who are comfortable with "i don't know" remain atheist or agnostic while those who aren't satisfied with i don't know will create all kind of myth to back that up.
 
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Neon Grave

Neon Grave

AuDHD, trying my best.
Apr 6, 2023
34
I have no intention to discuss religion in suicidal forum. Although I'm suicidal but I have no energy to justify my believe, sorry.

Oh, my mistake. I thought that religion would be discussed in a thread talking about religion. Have a good day!
 
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G

G50

Member
Jun 28, 2023
63
If there was a God testing us we should have been able to eat grass like most other mammals, but instead humans kill and eat those animals.

I would not want to use this issue as an argument for or against a divine being.

However, I would point out that nature is full of animals eating other animals, and in some ways, it might be considered a good thing, as it can reduce animal suffering. This is because the predatory animals often target the weak or lame animals in the pack for their prey. If those weaker animals are weak because of ill heath or advancing age, they may be suffering. So then killing these weak animals reduces the level of suffering in the animal world. It means the pack is always filled with health and vitality, because the predators eke out the weak and the ill.

Unfortunately in the human sphere, we invented civilisation, medical science and hospitals to take care of the weak and frail, and there are thus no longer any natural forces of nature that will prune weak humans. This may actually increase human suffering.

In my case, I have a chronic physical disease which debilitates and weakens me, and causes a lot suffering. If I lived in the natural world, I would have be killed by the predatory forces of nature long ago, which would have been the end to my suffering. But I am kept alive by my civilisation, and so go on suffering.

I am always amazed at the youthful vitality of the more primitive and religious countries: where conditions are harsh because they don't have advanced civilisation, you find populations are young and healthy, as people don't live long. But in advanced civilisations, there is a lot more old age, along with the chronic diseases that come with age.


Undefeated argument.

I think that argument of Epicurus would be more pertinent to use here if the word "evil" in that text were replaced with the word "suffering".

For humans beings, especially those on this forum, who are probably here because of horrible levels of suffering, it is the fact that in this cosmos, terrible suffering can be inflicted on the minds of conscious beings. Why is this so? Why is there suffering, such as horrendous mental health conditions, or terrible physical pain from chronic disease? This suffering does not necessarily arise from evil; it may just arise by accident or misfortune, such in those who have a chronic physical or mental illness.

It is only because we are conscious that suffering can occur. If we were just smart but unconscious computers, there could be no suffering, as suffering requires self awareness, which unconscious machines do not have.

It is said that our conscious life is a gift; but for some it can become a curse, when a generally content mental disposition is replaced by a state of terrible suffering.

This is the philosophical issue I have grappled with since developing some nasty chronic mental health symptoms, which were triggered by catching a virus which infected my brain. The virus affected my physical brain, and this then led to anguishing mental states of psychiatric ill health.

Conscious minds exist within our universe, but why can there be such intense suffering in this conscious mental landscape?

Consciousness is something we currently have little understanding of. Consciousness is studied in many disciplines, including philosophy, psychology, religion, mysticism, biology, biochemistry, and more recently in physics (with some postulating that consciousness may be a quantum phenomenon in the brain). Some believe consciousness merely arises when the complexity of the computing hardware (our brain in the human case) reaches a certain point; others believe that consciousness may be a fundamental (and even transcendental) force in the universe which our physical brain just taps into.

We know how to eliminate consciousness from the brain (anaesthetics will remove consciousness without affecting how the rest of the brain functions); but we don't have the ability to eliminate suffering from the conscious brain.
 
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Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
19,999
You could stretch this further by saying that God shouldn't have allowed any animals to have to eat other animals at all.

Then again, I'm pretty sure somewhere in the Bible it actually does say that God created certain animals specifically so that humans could eat them. Not sure which verse it is though or if that even matters to you though.
 
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VEROXEM

VEROXEM

Hey, I paid $7.10 for this split!
Jun 1, 2024
36
I like to think if God exists he is merciful.
I was born and raised jewish so our understanding of god is that at least in judisim dosent send you to hell. You go to a place called sheol for about a year to reflect your life choices but in the end all are welcome to heaven. It's not supposed to be painful but draining and let's be honest most of us are already experiencing this daily.
That being said there have been no accounts of miracles in the modern era that could not be explained in scientific ways. I read and saw more proof for reincarnation (which is what I personally belive and hope will happen) and or collective conscience then Hell or heaven.
 
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ZeroHope0

ZeroHope0

New Member
Jun 1, 2024
1
The vessels of wrath are contrasted with the vessels of mercy; one set is slated for destruction, and the other for glory. (romans 9:22
your idea of god is very different. Some people are successful no matter what because god loved them and others are miserable to make the successful successful. If i wasn't suffering how could success exist?
 
M

MarkSmith73

Student
Apr 14, 2024
110
That's one out of many reasons

Another is there is no evidence for any god, afterlife, reincarnation, soul, spirits , ghosts , nothing supernatural, magic , multiverses , computer simulation , other dimensions
Will you accept the possibility that there could be some evidence? We're just completely separated from it.
 
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Raindancer

Raindancer

Specialist
Nov 4, 2023
319
The reason is because there's basically no readily available food source for humans to survive on without having to kill another creature and therefore inflict harm and suffering.

If there was a God testing us we should have been able to eat grass like most other mammals, but instead humans kill and eat those animals.

You might say there's plenty of fruit trees around but if you've ever been in forests and parks there's almost nothing around let alone enough to survive on, fruit is also seasonal and the trees don't contain it all year round.

We can now live a lifetime on a completely plant based diet but that's only because of modern civilization and all the advanced technology like farming and storage techniques to preserve fruits and vegetables along with vehicles, boats and planes that can transport it all over the world.

If there was a God s/he'd be a very unfair and heartless individual to allow all this pointless suffering to happen for no reason.
In the garden, God meant for us and all animals to be vegetarian. Numerous times in Genesis God refers to eating plants and fruit. Death did not enter until Adam and Eve sinned. God also provided everything. Genesis 1:29 29 "Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so"
 
damienlerone

damienlerone

reject humanity, return to monke
May 5, 2024
887
ok so i'm an Atheist, so I don't really believe in god and i'm more of a science guy.. but there are things that are a little sus to me.

this is gunna be a long one so hear me out-

1) the precise values of the universe's fundamental constants (such as the gravitational constant, the cosmological constant, and the strength of nuclear forces) appear to be finely tuned to allow the existence of, stable atoms, molecules, stars, planets, and life itself. it's known as the fine tuning argument and also suggests that even slight variations in the values of these constants could make the universe inhospitable to life, hence a higher being, aka god, created these numbers.

2) then there is irreducible complexity; proposed by biochemist Michael Behe, i think, this concept means that the biological systems that are composed of multiple interdependent parts, where removing any one part causes the system to cease functioning. this guy says that such systems cannot be explained by gradual evolution through natural selection and may point to intelligent design, aka god.

3) then there is specified complexity; introduced by mathematician/philosopher William Dembski, this concept refers to the idea that certain biological structures are both complex and exhibit an independently specified pattern. he says that natural processes alone cannot account for this and that it implies an intelligent designer, aka god.

4) the origin of life from non-living matter aka abiogenesis is a pretty big scientific problem. the complexity of even the simplest life forms and the lack of a fully understood natural mechanism for the emergence of life have led some to propose that life's origin might involve a higher intelligence, aka god.

5) the universe shows a high degree of order and symmetry, from the laws of physics to the structure of galaxies and the nature of fundamental particles. this orderlinesses can be interpreted by some as indicative of an intelligent design, aka god.

6) the complex information encoded in DNA is often compared to a computer code or language. some argue that the presence of such intricate information systems points to an intelligent source, aka god.

7) some interpretations of quantum mechanics, such as the role of the observer in collapsing the wave function, raise questions about the nature of consciousness and its potential connection to the fundamental workings of the universe. these ideas have led to speculative connections between consciousness and a higher intelligence, aka god.

8) the big bang theory, which posits that the universe had a beginning, raises questions about what caused the universe to come into existence. some see the universe's origin as suggesting the need for a transcendent cause or creator, aka god.

i know there are others but i cant think of it off the top of my head unlike these ones

so even if god exists or doesn't i'm gunna be a good boy so i dont go to hell or something in a chance he does exist💀
 
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M

MarkSmith73

Student
Apr 14, 2024
110
Does your friend have a new appreciation for life?
Oh yes. He was given this tremendous sense of hope and the realization that life never really ends. We talk on a regular basis and he encourages me in my struggles and to try to make the most of what I have even when things seem hopeless. We just have to find what works for us to cope while we're here but the future is one of endless hope, learning and new possibilities.
 
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4

420Jack

Member
Jun 22, 2024
21
In the garden, God meant for us and all animals to be vegetarian. Numerous times in Genesis God refers to eating plants and fruit. Death did not enter until Adam and Eve sinned. God also provided everything. Genesis 1:29 29 "Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so"
Genisis also said all seed bearing plants are food. Many are clearly posionous and not food.I take this as evidence for the god of abraham to not exist now or ever. It is utterly immoral to punish an entire species, and say they're all evil sinners based on the mistakes of one or two people (Eve and Adam). No matter how haneous the crime. It is NEVER moral to punish their decendants for it. Since such behavior is immoral. Said all-good god does not exist. Leviticus says a womans period is spiritually unclean. Menstrutating women weren't allowed in the temple nor allowed to have phyical contact with their families cause menstrutating was considered spiritually unclean. Family had to perform ritual clensing ceremonies if they accidently had contact with a menstruating woman or even sat in the same chair as her. That is according to the "creator" god. If said god was creator, wouldn't it also be aware that menstruation has nothing to do with spirituality and is nessecary for reproduction? Wouldn't said creator/designer be aware of it's own design?

Oh and don't forget Genisis says the only reason all women experience pain in child birth is because Eve sinned. Since when is it moral for any being to punish an entire species for the mistake of one?

Religion is nothing but human brains trying to come up with answers for things we don't know. Like how life got started. Our brains make up answers for so many other things in life that we typically aren't aware of.
Will you accept the possibility that there could be some evidence? We're just completely separated from it.

Do you mean like evidence yet to be discovered? Or do you mean this individuals memory/story is evidence?
 
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P

Praestat_Mori

Mori praestat, quam haec pati!
May 21, 2023
9,780
The reason is because there's basically no readily available food source for humans to survive on without having to kill another creature and therefore inflict harm and suffering.

If there was a God testing us we should have been able to eat grass like most other mammals, but instead humans kill and eat those animals.

You might say there's plenty of fruit trees around but if you've ever been in forests and parks there's almost nothing around let alone enough to survive on, fruit is also seasonal and the trees don't contain it all year round.
You're missing sth here. We humans settled in regions where we originally weren't able to survive. We managed to do that bc we developed tools and other things that enabled us to survive in those regions.

Imo humans can naturally survive only in tropical regions where fruits and the like grow all year long.

However, I do understand your POV here! If there was a god he would've created a peaceful world unless it's a sadistic god.
 
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Darkover

Darkover

Angelic
Jul 29, 2021
4,056
if there was a god life wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as it is there clearly is no god just the delusion of god in human minds
 
Raindancer

Raindancer

Specialist
Nov 4, 2023
319
Genisis also said all seed bearing plants are food. Many are clearly posionous and not food.I take this as evidence for the god of abraham to not exist now or ever. It is utterly immoral to punish an entire species, and say they're all evil sinners based on the mistakes of one or two people (Eve and Adam). No matter how haneous the crime. It is NEVER moral to punish their decendants for it. Since such behavior is immoral. Said all-good god does not exist. Leviticus says a womans period is spiritually unclean. Menstrutating women weren't allowed in the temple nor allowed to have phyical contact with their families cause menstrutating was considered spiritually unclean. Family had to perform ritual clensing ceremonies if they accidently had contact with a menstruating woman or even sat in the same chair as her. That is according to the "creator" god. If said god was creator, wouldn't it also be aware that menstruation has nothing to do with spirituality and is nessecary for reproduction? Wouldn't said creator/designer be aware of it's own design?

Oh and don't forget Genisis says the only reason all women experience pain in child birth is because Eve sinned. Since when is it moral for any being to punish an entire species for the mistake of one?

Religion is nothing but human brains trying to come up with answers for things we don't know. Like how life got started. Our brains make up answers for so many other things in life that we typically aren't aware of.

Do you mean like evidence yet to be discovered? Or do you mean this individuals memory/story is evidence?
I get your questions. The problem is from what I see(and I could be wrong) you are coming at this from a human perspective. If you are a Bible believing Christian, we believe God created the Universe in order for us to worship Him, that's it. He is both love and just and in order for that to work, there are certain "rules" for a better word He put in place. This was for our benefit and to live perfectly and righteously. You don't believe in them, God gave you free will. Why would he create just robots. He created everything we needed in perfect union together. We all would have sinned if we would have been put in Adam's and Eve's place so we all suffer the consequences.

Now for certain rituals or rules, there are some "rules" that are meant for all people at all times, the 10 Commandments for example. Then there are 'rules' meant for a specific people(the Jews) and or for a specific time. For example the wearing of cotton and eating shellfish. This purpose was for the Jewish people to distinguish themselves differently from other as God's people.
 

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