Discussion Why does society condemn suicide more than homicide?

[nigelhernandez]

This comes from my anecdotal experience talking to people in real life along with browsing internet forums, YouTube etc...

It seems that from talking to people about cases of people going on mass shootings (Elliot Rodger from example), people never seem to condemn the person responsible for the murder. They talk about the situation as tragic but never condemn it deeply and just say "Oh he was just insane" "We need more gun control".

When it comes to suicide however, people go out of their way to condemn the person who died by suicide. "Oh they were so selfish/cowardly". I've never had a discussion about suicide where someone doesn't condemn the person or the act.

Even on YouTube discussions, some people even praise mass shooters like Elliot Rodger. I can guarantee if he had simply killed himself and the headline was "Son of Movie Producer Kills Himself" then people would be shaming him.

Why is this?

 

[Amnesty]

Homicide is more relatable than suicide I guess...who knows?

 

[Walilamdzi]

I don't think it does.

 

[last_tour]

I think we live in a demented world, anything that prolongs suffering is praised, but if you try to escape it you are shunned.

 

[Krash1990]

I imagine it's more relatable to people.
Almost everyone has had a moment where they wished someone else was dead, or at least gone, but our SI prevents people from relating to the concept of ending ones own life to fix the problems.

 

[lostangel]

Perhaps because in a homicide case the victim didn't have a choice while in suicide they technically have a choice to live.

 

[ARW3N]

I think everything we do in life is an attempt to justify why life is worth living when in reality life is completely meaningless. We are engaged in the struggle for survival the moment we are born. We have to eat and work for a living. Suicide shatters the illusion that life is meaningful and good. The funny thing about suicide is a phenomenon called suicide contagion where those who condemn the suicide the most are the ones who are most likely to follow suit by killing themselves.

 

[Samsa]

Why? Because it is a hypocritical, mendacious society we live in.

 

[Luchs]

This comes from my anecdotal experience talking to people in real life along with browsing internet forums, YouTube etc...

It seems that from talking to people about cases of people going on mass shootings (Elliot Rodger from example), people never seem to condemn the person responsible for the murder. They talk about the situation as tragic but never condemn it deeply and just say "Oh he was just insane" "We need more gun control".

When it comes to suicide however, people go out of their way to condemn the person who died by suicide. "Oh they were so selfish/cowardly". I've never had a discussion about suicide where someone doesn't condemn the person or the act.

Even on YouTube discussions, some people even praise mass shooters like Elliot Rodger. I can guarantee if he had simply killed himself and the headline was "Son of Movie Producer Kills Himself" then people would be shaming him.

Why is this?

My personal experience isn't really like that. I have met lots of people that apply "oh he's insane" to suicidal people and condemn mass shooters for being horrible people.

Find me a single person that doesn't believe that Tarrant guy wasn't a subhuman monster.

 

[DeathIsTheWayOut99]

The way I see it, we view suicide and mental health as something that can be "fixed" or "cured". When it comes to physical illness, for example cancer, it is easier to accept in some cases healing is not possible and death will come regardless of what anyone does. I have experienced this with my moms passing of cancer

Mental health has always carried a negative e stigma for "being in your head". It doesn't show anything physical, in the sense of a physical illness. It's all mental and that, in turn, can manifest into psychological and physical symptoms. I feel people don't see it this way however.

This leads to many thinking suicide can just "gotten over" with "tough love" and positivity. And it doesn't

There is also the aspect of suicide itself causing an emotional burden on the living. Now I am not saying this to demean any of us here into not going through with CTB. However, I believe everyone has at least one person who cares about them. It might not be obvious, and it might not be in our family or friend group. But someone out there cares, and death affects them permanently. And so to avoid that turmoil, they might react by calling us "selfish"

Then there is also the case of responsibility. Suicide is an escape from pain. That is it at its very core. And that pain can come from a multitude of reasons. Take abusive parents, for instance. My mom as my abuser and she would shame me for my depression all the time. perhaps she didn't understand it, or didn't want to deal with knowing my death would have been her fault. The guilt would have taken her over

All in all, suicide to many is an unknown and hard concept to grasp. We as people need to open it up more. And so we can understand the consequences of our actions and how it can influence others mental states. How we can pay attention and be there for those who are wanting suicide. How that person can be given services for help, and if nothing else seems to help, euthanasia should be legal

However, and I speak as someone who lives in the US, the main care is about money and power. Tbh, we have come a long way in mental health awareness, but we still have a long long way to go. And that'll take centuries. Hopefully things might change but that might be after we all pass on.

 

[TAW122]

All the answers here are good and some are interesting. From someone with a logical mind and standpoint as well as seeing things in an utilitarian/strategic way of seeing things, I'd tend am going to go more with the fact that humans don't like their delusional illusion of meaning and goodness (comes from religion as well as humans' tendancies to assign value and meaning to objectively meaningless things). The universe itself couldn't care less about the human race or anything really, it is just an inanimate entity of itself as far as we see it. I'd say that humans see death as one of the worst (if not the worst result) from everything as death represents permanent ending and thus nothingness. As mentioned earlier, that humans want to assign value and meaning to everything, even those without an objective meaning, thus leading the belief that life is good and the most valuable thing ever (above money, above romance, above rights, etc.) so when that is disturbed, especially by suicide, it throws most humans into a frantic confused state of not accepting it (kind of like someone trying to divide by zero, but in sheeple world).

Homicide, on the other hand, while it also results in death, humans are a step (or more) removed from it as they tie it into anger, jealousy, greed, and protection so they go to great mental gymnastics to justify it, including imposing death on another human being for some other greater cause or self preseravation (true in cases of self-defense, sacrifice for the greater good, many for the price of one, etc.). Thus, due to their SI (survival instinct), it could also be argued that their SI surpasses homicide and while both suicide (killing of oneself) and homicide (killing of another) both result in death, suicide is an threat to their SI, meaning that SI surpasses everything a human is, including life itself.

 

[TimeToBiteTheDust]

For some ppl CTB is irrational. Some people are not meant to be in this world. I can't function in society anymore. That's why I chose to ctb.

 

[Emily123]

People in the society fighting against each others wishes (it is some sort of sickness ) . if some some body want to die , everybody tries to keep them alive . if some one wants to be alive, people do whatever they can to not let that person enjoy her life . there is a general rule that people are always try to stop you in whatever you are trying to do

 

[CarbonMonoxide]

I don't know where you live but I've NEVER experienced or heard of this idea anywhere. It sounds absolutely delusional. Think about it. A homicidal person will be lynched in many countries if the police don't get there in time. Even if they make it to court, they usually get death or life sentences. A suicidal person will lose face for a while, maybe get locked up in a mental ward. In a few countries they get short jail sentences. Eventually they're released and society moves on to the next piece of drama.

If a murderer gets released early, they have a hell of a time trying to fit in society. Many get killed in revenge attacks or extra judicial killings. Many commit suicide either in prison or after release. A suicidal person will get offers for help, if not, a little shunning that they can overcome with time. Most actually do and move on to live out their lives productively. Tell me again, how does society condemn suicide more than homicide? Just where on earth is this a reality?

 

[Deardaddy]

Most people do not condemn a person. They just can't do anything since existence is already done .

 

[CarbonMonoxide]

My personal experience isn't really like that. I have met lots of people that apply "oh he's insane" to suicidal people and condemn mass shooters for being horrible people.

Find me a single person that doesn't believe that Tarrant guy wasn't a subhuman monster.

I know, right? Find me one person who condemns a teenager's suicide attempt more than they condemn a terrorist or rapist who actually brutalizes and murders a teenage girl. It's completely unrealistic to think like this.

 

[Deardaddy]

How can homicide and suicide the same page. A sucidial person cares for others , kind . The reality is same but the ending is different

 

[Escapist]

The way I see it, we view suicide and mental health as something that can be "fixed" or "cured". When it comes to physical illness, for example cancer, it is easier to accept in some cases healing is not possible and death will come regardless of what anyone does. I have experienced this with my moms passing of cancer

I believe this to be an important reason, there is this ignorant, toxic optimism on the loose that says that every problem in the mind can be cured by "going through the proper treatment". It's a culture of therapy-industry overdoing their self-promotion.

There is also the aspect of suicide itself causing an emotional burden on the living. Now I am not saying this to demean any of us here into not going through with CTB. However, I believe everyone has at least one person who cares about them. It might not be obvious, and it might not be in our family or friend group. But someone out there cares, and death affects them permanently. And so to avoid that turmoil, they might react by calling us "selfish"

People are also really phobic about not getting feelings of guilt in case somebody kills themselves. So basically, everybody wants to rush to condemn suicide so that if somebody does it, they can tell themselves "Well, I told them not to do it, so my hands are clean.". Basically, these people do the condemning just to have a pre-emptive defense against potential feelings of guilt. It is somewhat understandable, imo, but it is also not at all helpful.

Then there is also the case of responsibility. Suicide is an escape from pain. That is it at its very core.

Yes! In my own mind, I am not pro-suicide, I'm simply anti-pain and suicide is one of the options. If the pain goes away by other means, such as recovery or whatever, that's just great. But sometimes there just isn't a realistic way out and committing a suicide is the logical conclusion to end the pain.

My beef with pro-lifers is that in the cases where there is no other cure to the pain, pro-life means pro-pain. I think it's simply inhumane to force someone to be in more pain than they can bear.