Why do some people fixate on a method despite knowing it's a bad idea?

[k75]

I'm genuinely curious, because I see it so often. People get stuck on something and sometimes even do it anyway, despite all the warnings and knowledge that it just will not work or will end badly. It's often really extreme things, too. (I'm not criticizing anyone, because I'm guilty of it too!)

What causes this? Why are certain methods just so attractive to some? Have you experienced this?

For me, it's insulin overdose. I have a fridge full of insulin at all times, and no matter how much I learn about why it's not a reliable way or how unpleasant I know it would be, it calls to me. I have everything for SN, but I really *want* to make insulin work.

 

[Oyoy]

Sweets. I want to die from cookies. All the evidence says I would get fat but I really don't want to and just want to die from a tummy ache.

 

[Epsilon0]

I think it's due to our psychological make up: we decide on something (quite irrationally oftentimes) and then we stick to it, despite being presented with evidence that shows us our decision will likely lead to a bad outcome.

If that wasn't the case, and if we could change our minds when faced with convincing evidence, the world would be a much (better) different place. Unfortunately, our minds are inflexible and lazy - we simply find it hard to take in new information and put our reason to work.

 

[X.Pseudonym.X]

Desperation.
I once tried to starve myself to death by going homeless. Needless to say, that was a very stupid idea. I spent the night on the streets but came back home the other day because I just couldn't take it anymore.

 

[Heartsick Traveler]

Insulin is familiar to you. It has been your companion for a long time, no? SN, on the other hand, carries with it the stories of potential physical discomfort, a substance utterly alien to your body. It makes crazy sense to me.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

It often seems to me like going to a slot machine, wanting the method to pay out even though it's likely not to. It's as irrational as an addiction to gambling or other self-harming addictions, including co-dependence. This seems to me to tie in with @Epsilon0's comment. We humans often pursue things even as we cognitively know they're a bad idea, and ephemeral desires often influence us more than reality.

 

[AlreadyGone]

Suicide Ideation. Some people dream about suicide without thinking through the actual process. It is the reason why you constantly see death by train threads despite every thread stating it is a bad idea.

 

[k75]

Insulin is familiar to you. It has been your companion for a long time, no? SN, on the other hand, carries with it the stories of potential physical discomfort, a substance utterly alien to your body. It makes crazy sense to me.

That's actually a really good point. I don't like unknown things, and even though I don't like it, taking insulin is comfortable territory for me.

But what about OTC overdoses or fire or starvation or bleach or rat poison? Very common fixations with no pleasant associations but high chance of survival with injury. Is it really just desperation? Is desperation enough to make a person keep repeating a proven failure instead of trying another way? Psychology is so weird.

 

[Heartsick Traveler]

That's actually a really good point. I don't like unknown things, and even though I don't like it, taking insulin is comfortable territory for me.

But what about OTC overdoses or fire or starvation or bleach or rat poison? Very common fixations with no pleasant associations but high chance of survival with injury. Is it really just desperation? Is desperation enough to make a person keep repeating a proven failure instead of trying another way? Psychology is so weird.

It IS weird, isn't it! The extreme examples you cite are tougher for me to grasp, in part because I'm personally so pain-averse. And I don't want anything to go wrong! Therefore, I'm also puzzled by the the incredibly complicated, novel/untested methods entertained by so many here when relatively simple, painless, and reliable methods are already clearly explained and readily available. Some people--and my heart aches for them--believe they truly deserve to suffer physically AND emotionally. Others may want the sheer horror and gruesomeness of their passing to shock and punish those they leave behind.

 

[Oyoy]

Sadly it proves the person is not thinking clearly.

 

[Blutsager]

Desperation?

I mean, considering what the end purpose of any of this methods is... you can imagine the individual is clearly desperate. And as such, they put all their hopes, even their dreams, on an idea, on this method. You are asking a person to be logical and rational when they are literally thinking of ending it all cause they can't handle it anymore...

 

[Heartsick Traveler]

Desperation?

I mean, considering what the end purpose of any of this methods is... you can imagine the individual is clearly desperate. And as such, they put all their hopes, even their dreams, on an idea, on this method. You are asking a person to be logical and rational when they are literally thinking of ending it all cause they can't handle it anymore...

Yes. While I do believe that many can choose death by suicide in an emotional state that is thoughtfully clear-eyed and rational, many others are NOT thinking clearly--feelings often exacerbated by alcohol, psychotropic meds, etc. It's another reason I'm grateful this forum exists.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Desperation?

I mean, considering what the end purpose of any of this methods is... you can imagine the individual is clearly desperate. And as such, they put all their hopes, even their dreams, on an idea, on this method. You are asking a person to be logical and rational when they are literally thinking of ending it all cause they can't handle it anymore...

You may eventually notice in some posts that folks will repeatedly try a method that has failed, and some folks will say that they are only comfortable with that method, in spite of the fact it has proven to be ineffective, such as, for example, a specific non-fatal med and alcohol combination for ODing. Sometimes it seems to be more about a fixation on a method than desperation to end it all, because the method has proven that it will indeed not end it all.

I'm not saying this in a judgemental or condemning way, but rather noticing that sometimes there seems to be a different driving force than the one that you indicate. I think the OP is noticing this as well.

 

[k75]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

When every shred of evidence says something will not work, everyone is telling you it won't work, maybe you've even tried and failed a few times. And yet, you still keep circling back to it.

I can't figure it out, but it's weirdly fascinating. Also, very sad to watch. I try to help, but it's a place beyond reason, I think.

 

[Quarky00]

OTC overdoses or fire or starvation or bleach or rat poison

Weapons of opportunity familiar or accessible to the killer used in the spur of the moment .

If that moment intensifies, becomes repetitive, and about to materialize, killer feels more affinity towards it, despite it not being affective.

I wouldn't call it cognitive bias or tunnel vision because it's very raw and emotional.

That's all there is to it. Humans are not that interesting or complex...

 

[a.h]

Suicide Ideation. Some people dream about suicide without thinking through the actual process. It is the reason why you constantly see death by train threads despite every thread stating it is a bad idea.

 

[It'llNeverEnd]

I don't have any methods available to me which are guaranteed to work, so my thoughts go to when I used to cut since I have knives around.

I have overdosed on a whole vial of insulin and just woke up 6 hours later in a sweat and rather shaky. are some ice cream and pretended nothing happened. insulin resistance is something to take into consideration. I took less insulin before while much skinnier and was in a coma with my first recorded blood sugar after being found being 7.

 

[TAW122]

There are many reasons. A simple and common one is that it may be the only one that they are able to access (whether logistically, geographically, reliably, affordability, etc.). Then other reasons include personal preference, including but not limited to wanting their wishes to be honored (in a certain way and on their terms) after their death, which the manner of their death would impact the aftermath (for example, if someone wanted an open casket, they would not opt for methods that leave a big mess, such as firearms, or decapitation). Another possibility is their capability of executing said method, because some methods may require a lot of preparation and/or a lot of skill and knowledge to be able to execute effectively. If someone is already dealing with the unduly immense pressure of overcoming the SI, hiding their intentions (maintaining a front, facade, face, and/or going through the motions as to not raise red flags), they are already mentally exhausted from all the upkeep and hiding to have enough energy to go for complex methods. There are so many more other reasons, but these are just the ones that are more common.

As for me, I'm sticking with my method as much as I can and possibly due to the ease of it and also reliability. I also don't have ease of access to other means and the other means I have are less reliable.

 

[a.h]

If we don't count the possible mental effect to train driver, then why ctb by train is bad method?

Head on tracks is fast and painless.
In Germany 3 people ctb by train daily (7% of suicides) in Netherland the rate is even higher (10% of suicides).

I think that there are better ways in PPH book. But I don't think train method is painfull.

One woman here kept her mind and left to afterlife with that method. I only saw her Goodbye posts here after it and her friends shared link to news and confirmed it.

 

[Mizzmini45]

Sweets. I want to die from cookies. All the evidence says I would get fat but I really don't want to and just want to die from a tummy ache.

HAHAHAHA. This is the funniest comment I heard yet I'm really laughing

 

[It'llNeverEnd]

If we don't count the possible mental effect to train driver, then why ctb by train is bad method?

Head on tracks is fast and painless.
In Germany 3 people ctb by train daily (7% of suicides) in Netherland the rate is even higher (10% of suicides).

Of course there are more convenient methods too.

you probably have more trains there than we do in the states. I'd be waiting on the tracks possibly days

 

[Suez]

You may eventually notice in some posts that folks will repeatedly try a method that has failed, and some folks will say that they are only comfortable with that method, in spite of the fact it has proven to be ineffective, such as, for example, a specific non-fatal med and alcohol combination for ODing. Sometimes it seems to be more about a fixation on a method than desperation to end it all, because the method has proven that it will indeed not end it all.

I'm not saying this in a judgemental or condemning way, but rather noticing that sometimes there seems to be a different driving force than the one that you indicate. I think the OP is noticing this as well.

Ive never actually thought of it before as a fixation, but maybe your right. I work in the ED and see many people coming in with OD's. Your right tho, why choose a method that you know is highly likely to not work, if the intention is to commit suicide. Sometimes you can end up pretty sick afterwards too. I suggested here a few weeks back that some people do the OD thing for attention. Its like a cry for help. I got blasted by one person, but its true thought that many people who choose to OD do it for attention. Having talked to all these people that come in following OD, the majority told me essentially it was a cry for help, they didnt want to die really, they just didnt know how to ask for help. Each of them knew that their choice of method was highly unlikely to kill them and thats why they chose it. Maybe for some people it is a fixation of sorts. Especially for those who do it repeatedly. That in itself proves that the method is not one you would choose if you really wanted to kill yourself. I think these days, everyone would know its not a method that typically kills people. There are people that have posted here tho have they have had terrible after affects following an OD. Thats the awfull thing about taking ODs is the damage it can cause physically and theyr symptoms that often stay with you.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

This post makes me think about my own situation. It's just as irrational that I am still alive. All of the evidence points to my situation being out of my control, being intolerable, not getting better, will in fact get worse, and in fact worsens daily.* The rational option is to ctb. I have two methods, I have the materials. And yet irrationality has kept me going. I am capable of so much, but all opportunity for using and achieving my potential is gone. I like myself. I have power I cannot use. I don't want to destroy myself but rather end ongoing harm and save myself from further harm, yet I still do not. It's not SI that's at play, and it's not non-acceptance of the obvious. I accept the situation and that I cannot change it, I am rational about that. As with the subject of this thread, I too have not yet been able to use my acceptance and rationality to act in my own best interest, which is to ctb.

*I don't talk about the situation, it's personal and not relevant to any discussion I would have on this forum. I know folks get curious, and I don't dangle the unknown situation as a form of attention seeking, it's just that to discuss it invites personal derailing when I'm already clear and don't need or desire any input about the situation, only about the self-determining choice to end it via ctb.

 

[a.h]

you probably have more trains there than we do in the states. I'd be waiting on the tracks possibly days

Yes, we do. Very much. Videocameras only near some stations (cities have some videocameras anyways) and just fences near some stations.

In many European cities there are lots of woods everywhere and traintracks are mostly located there so the noice don't bother much. Train tracks are everywhere and lots of trains go at night too carrying wood etc.

I think there are better ways to go but I can see why it's so popular. I think that the certainty of it is what appeals to it and hard time finding other ways to go.
If I lived in USA I would buy Nembutal or heroin as a way to ctb. Those are hard to get in my country because of the very strict customs and there are no sellers of them in marketplaces inside the country (just weed, meds etc.)

 

[one4all]

Seems my thoughts have already been covered in this thread.
I'll keep moving on to the Lounge now

 

[a.h]

I think that previous experiences can affect a lot. Also what people have read and heard.
I would prefer ctb by asphyxiation or bleeding because I have almost died from both. I got revived after asphyxiation. I felt no pain, just euphoria, love and peace (so much that I wanted to die because I thought it must continue then) and had a wonderful nde.
Euphoria came very fast. I also got high euphoria fast after accidentally breathing air with gas few minutes.
I have read hundreds of nde stories and all who died from asphyxiation have said they felt the same. All news say deaths like that are painless too.

Once doctor cut my big artery and said I lost 4.5l blood before she got it stopped. I had no anesthesia or pain relive and I felt bad pain. The fast blood loss took all the pain fast away and I felt at peace and like floating. I refused blood transfer I was offered because I felt fine and because I had just read an article of people who got HIV from blood transfer in my country. I had to wait over 1 hour after that blood loss for surgeon and anesthesia doctor to come and fix me. I was told there were only 1 surgeon and 1 anesthesia doctor in hospital at night who were busy.
Free (almost free) health care don't mean good health care. It's often very bad because of lack of funds and qualified staff. ;(

From experience I know that dieing from asphyxia is painless and that fast blood loss would be totally painless too.
Besides them I am personally sure that death by Nembutal and opiates are peacefull. Also I rationalise that anything real fast like bullet to brain, must be painless. Hit by train and jumping from high most likely too.

I am scared of ways with meds because of very bad experiences. Mild serotonin syndrome felt for me as bad as surgery without anesthesia. Even thought of them make me slightly panic.

I think that most want to die at home in own bed (the safest place on earth) which can lead to bad decisions and unreliable methods unless they have sn, heroin/fent or Nembutal.

 

[Throwmyselfaway]

I think maybe it's their only option and have no other way? For the longest time I wanted to od. Still I'm the back my mind I'm like oh I have all these pills, this combo would certainly do it. Realty is I know that won't work. I have 1 method and 2 back ups just in case I want to go quicker.

 

[s1mplem3]

My method is SN, do you think it's a bad idea? I can experience it only once.

 

[a.h]

My method is SN, do you think it's a bad idea? I can experience it only once.

I don't know. One guy who got found said it was painless and people I have heard have died from it didn't call ambulance.
Exit members etc. have seen people ctb at least with some recommended methods. For example one member said he had seen about 20 passing without any pain with He method. I assume that's the same with sn but can't be sure. Someone who is member of Euthanasia sites could ask that from them in chats etc.

That is my plan B so I would be glad to get some info about it too. If you are scared you can get some fast back up plan that can be done in that dizzy state.

 

[k75]

My method is SN, do you think it's a bad idea? I can experience it only once.

SN is my plan.