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username12345

Member
Aug 18, 2024
90
It seems that the bully thinks the way he has treated me has been completely isolated from it's affects and refuses to acknowledge the ripple effect that it's caused in my life. It's so funny cause I'm always somehow responsible for his insane and unreasonable anger for no reason, but he isn't responsible for the obvious harm he's caused?

I don't get being so cruel, because there's no way he didn't know that I was already dealing with a lot when he started bullying me. He hasn't changed at all, and it just seems like he just shrugs when I try to pick up the pieces of the harm he has caused or contributed to and dealing with really unsafe and traumatic situations. Meanwhile, he has to be babied over the slightest thing.
 
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wiggy

Student
Jan 6, 2025
199
I don't know the specifics of your situation, but this is quite a can of worms.
Every action we take has a causal chain of consequence, and ultimately there will be something upstream which was out of our control. If you believe yourself not to be responsible for your actions because of something that was done to you in the past, why shouldn't that same like of thinking apply to the one who wronged you? From a strictly philosophical perspective you're brushing up against the limitations of free will as a concept. In practice, our intuitions around who's responsible for what is just going to come down to our emotional response around the specific circumstances.
 
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grapevoid

grapevoid

Mage
Jan 30, 2025
529
they genuinely don't think they're "that bad"

Trauma effects everyone differently so maybe they've experienced similar or worse in their opinion and don't feel it affected them… so why would it effect you?

maybe he's a narcissist?

Possible coping mechanism of the abuser to minimize their actions so they don't feel bad about themselves.

They're responsible even if they won't hold themselves accountable and anything you do in retaliation to their abuse is also their fault. "Reactive abuse" isn't real, there is only one victim and it's you if the other person is the abuser. They don't get to be the abuser and the victim. Most abusers manipulate situations to make themselves innocent and you the crazy, weak, or abusive one.

Realistically, in my own experience, if you want to heal, you might have to learn to accept the fact that they live in a different reality than you do and heal without their validation or acknowledgment of what they've done to you.
 
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username12345

Member
Aug 18, 2024
90
they genuinely don't think they're "that bad"

Trauma effects everyone differently so maybe they've experienced similar or worse in their opinion and don't feel it affected them… so why would it effect you?

maybe he's a narcissist?

Possible coping mechanism of the abuser to minimize their actions so they don't feel bad about themselves.

They're responsible even if they won't hold themselves accountable and anything you do in retaliation to their abuse is also their fault. "Reactive abuse" isn't real, there is only one victim and it's you if the other person is the abuser. They don't get to be the abuser and the victim. Most abusers manipulate situations to make themselves innocent and you the crazy, weak, or abusive one.

Realistically, in my own experience, if you want to heal, you might have to learn to accept the fact that they live in a different reality than you do and heal without their validation or acknowledgment of what they've done to you.
Thanks for the reply. I seriously doubt he's been through worse because he has an obviously better quality of life than I do. And I've tried to just accept he's not sorry but what he's put me through has been devastating to my life, and has caused me to have to go back to an abusive family, to be homeless, and to deal with possibly being murdered by someone(not him someone else). What he needs to be babied about is things like people that are not "cool" trying to befriend him." That's what he needs to throw a fit about and be babied about.

I just don't think I'm going to survive this.
 
EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
4,482
I find it funny how we all like to complain about this type of shit when others do it but rarely do I see the same people who complain about this type of shit take the same responsibility for their own shitty actions. They end up doing the same shit that they complain about others doing. I'm not saying this to be rude or anything, rather it is just that posts like these always have me thinking about this kind of stuff.

There tends to be this sort of asymmetry when it comes to memories of being victims vs our memories of being perpetrators. We seem to recall more events in which we were victims compared to ones where we were perpetrators. People tend to feel more guilt when talking about things they did on accident or things that aren't their fault compared to when talking about the things they have done intentionally. When you are the one causing the harm, you probably don't tend to view what you did as being as harmful compared to the victims. All of this becomes even more messy irl because irl these situations can be much messier and not as simple as victims vs perpetrators. Despite this, these situations are still looked back at from a very white-and-black perspective.

I remember, back when I was around 13 or 14, staring out the window with my ex-stepmother and watching this bus driver talking to the police. He had hit a lady who was crossing the road. Something happened, though I don't remember what it was, but it ended up prompting my then-stepmother to talk about how some people just can't seem to take responsibility for their actions. I remember thinking to myself how hypocritical she sounded. This was the same woman who I have never once seen take responsibility for her awful actions towards others. She was abusive towards my dad, manipulative, and had a tendency to play the victim. She would cause all sorts of drama within our family but would always act like she was being forced into the middle of it. She once even said that my mom and dad kept on forcing me and her into the middle of their drama, even though she actively went out of her way to instigate most of the fights and drama between the two of them, actively inserting herself into the situation when she never had to. I thought that she was a hypocrite for saying that. The thing is, I now realize that I'm not that much better, nor do I think most people are.

People will harm others all the time but their biases blind them in a way. When I was in elementary school, I was a bully. The funny thing is that the kid who I went after I didn't even hate. I found him funny and overall had a neutral opinion of him prior to all of this. It wasn't until I made a new friend and had just joined their friend group that I started to become mean towards him because I was scared that if I didn't then they would kick me out of the in-group. Yet, I still saw myself as a "good person". I didn't see myself as a bully and didn't perceive myself as having done any harm. I either rarely recalled those events of cruelty or I would rationalize them in my head, making things from my perspective feel justified. It was not until sometime around middle school, while at a new school with very different friends, did the shittiness of my past actions actually start to hit me. Even then, I would still find myself fighting the urge to downplay them.

At the same time, there were points during elementary school where I witnessed others doing the same thing. They would be the perpetrator in the situation but they wouldn't view it that way. They would often downplay the harm of their actions and sometimes would even try to justify them. I once confronted a kid who picking on one of his peers and when I told him that he was being a bully he looked at me with this confused facial expression and said that he wasn't a bully. It was like he couldn't comprehend why anyone would think he was one. When my friends stopped hanging out with me, even after defending them when the person I was arguing with was accusing them of stuff, they didn't see anything wrong with what they did. They would act like it was weird that I grew to become upset at them because they would only hang out with me for a little bit until that person came along and then they would ditch me and leave me all by myself. People usually tend to better recognize situations in which they are victims compared to situations where they are the ones engaging in wrongdoings. Of course, this isn't the case with everyone but it seems to be a common trend that occurs in most people to varying degrees.

He will view his actions differently because he is looking at the situation from his perspective. From his POV, what he did to you wasn't that bad while from your POV, as the victim of his actions, it was that bad. It is likely that you have done the same shit before, even if you don't remember it or try to deny it.

Sometimes these things happen because we are trying to preserve this particular image of ourselves that we have in our heads without realizing it, while other times it happens because of differences in perspective. Being a victim of some sort of situation will likely elicit more negative emotions, making those memories more salient compared to those where you were the perpetrator.

Along with that, slightly unrelated, but you are making a lot of assumptions about his life and experiences but you aren't him. It's easy to say "Their life is definitely easier than mine" when looking at it from an outsider's perspective. It's not like you know about all of his traumatic experiences and hardships, let alone are you the same as him in the physical sense. Some people are more sensitive to adverse events than others, hence why two people can have similar trauma to one another but one person might be more resilient to those experiences compared to the other person, partly because of biological differences between the two individuals.

Who knows? Maybe everything I said here was just a reflection of my unknowingly projecting my own guilt and experiences onto others, maybe what I'm saying is the truth, or maybe it's a mix of both. This post is kind of just a series of nonsensical thoughts that I tried to organize into something comprehensible and I don't think that I did too good of a job at it. Then again, I'm not great at explaining shit. 😕

Anyways, smell ya later!
 
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grapevoid

grapevoid

Mage
Jan 30, 2025
529
op- regardless of anything said here I hope you remember this

It's the abusers job to recognize the impact their behavior has on other people. Period. No "perspective" bs. Abuse is abuse and it's wrong. Trauma doesn't give them a green light to go around abusing other people and their "perspective" doesn't excuse them from accepting that their behavior damaged someone. Other situations you may have been involved in are irrelevant to your situation with this person. By claiming to be victimized by someone, you are not saying you are ALWAYS the victim or have never been the unhealthy person in any situation. And being the unhealthy person in some parts of life doesn't invalidate your experience in the current situation.

People deserve validation when they feel bullied, abused, or taken advantage of. And that's it. No one is perfect, and you still don't deserve to be treated like shit or have your experiences invalidated nor are you required to accept or ignore when someone else's unhealthy behavior has a negative impact on you.
 
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username12345

Member
Aug 18, 2024
90
I find it funny how we all like to complain about this type of shit when others do it but rarely do I see the same people who complain about this type of shit take the same responsibility for their own shitty actions. They end up doing the same shit that they complain about others doing. I'm not saying this to be rude or anything, rather it is just that posts like these always have me thinking about this kind of stuff.

There tends to be this sort of asymmetry when it comes to memories of being victims vs our memories of being perpetrators. We seem to recall more events in which we were victims compared to ones where we were perpetrators. People tend to feel more guilt when talking about things they did on accident or things that aren't their fault compared to when talking about the things they have done intentionally. When you are the one causing the harm, you probably don't tend to view what you did as being as harmful compared to the victims. All of this becomes even more messy irl because irl these situations can be much messier and not as simple as victims vs perpetrators. Despite this, these situations are still looked back at from a very white-and-black perspective.

I remember, back when I was around 13 or 14, staring out the window with my ex-stepmother and watching this bus driver talking to the police. He had hit a lady who was crossing the road. Something happened, though I don't remember what it was, but it ended up prompting my then-stepmother to talk about how some people just can't seem to take responsibility for their actions. I remember thinking to myself how hypocritical she sounded. This was the same woman who I have never once seen take responsibility for her awful actions towards others. She was abusive towards my dad, manipulative, and had a tendency to play the victim. She would cause all sorts of drama within our family but would always act like she was being forced into the middle of it. She once even said that my mom and dad kept on forcing me and her into the middle of their drama, even though she actively went out of her way to instigate most of the fights and drama between the two of them, actively inserting herself into the situation when she never had to. I thought that she was a hypocrite for saying that. The thing is, I now realize that I'm not that much better, nor do I think most people are.

People will harm others all the time but their biases blind them in a way. When I was in elementary school, I was a bully. The funny thing is that the kid who I went after I didn't even hate. I found him funny and overall had a neutral opinion of him prior to all of this. It wasn't until I made a new friend and had just joined their friend group that I started to become mean towards him because I was scared that if I didn't then they would kick me out of the in-group. Yet, I still saw myself as a "good person". I didn't see myself as a bully and didn't perceive myself as having done any harm. I either rarely recalled those events of cruelty or I would rationalize them in my head, making things from my perspective feel justified. It was not until sometime around middle school, while at a new school with very different friends, did the shittiness of my past actions actually start to hit me. Even then, I would still find myself fighting the urge to downplay them.

At the same time, there were points during elementary school where I witnessed others doing the same thing. They would be the perpetrator in the situation but they wouldn't view it that way. They would often downplay the harm of their actions and sometimes would even try to justify them. I once confronted a kid who picking on one of his peers and when I told him that he was being a bully he looked at me with this confused facial expression and said that he wasn't a bully. It was like he couldn't comprehend why anyone would think he was one. When my friends stopped hanging out with me, even after defending them when the person I was arguing with was accusing them of stuff, they didn't see anything wrong with what they did. They would act like it was weird that I grew to become upset at them because they would only hang out with me for a little bit until that person came along and then they would ditch me and leave me all by myself. People usually tend to better recognize situations in which they are victims compared to situations where they are the ones engaging in wrongdoings. Of course, this isn't the case with everyone but it seems to be a common trend that occurs in most people to varying degrees.

He will view his actions differently because he is looking at the situation from his perspective. From his POV, what he did to you wasn't that bad while from your POV, as the victim of his actions, it was that bad. It is likely that you have done the same shit before, even if you don't remember it or try to deny it.

Sometimes these things happen because we are trying to preserve this particular image of ourselves that we have in our heads without realizing it, while other times it happens because of differences in perspective. Being a victim of some sort of situation will likely elicit more negative emotions, making those memories more salient compared to those where you were the perpetrator.

Along with that, slightly unrelated, but you are making a lot of assumptions about his life and experiences but you aren't him. It's easy to say "Their life is definitely easier than mine" when looking at it from an outsider's perspective. It's not like you know about all of his traumatic experiences and hardships, let alone are you the same as him in the physical sense. Some people are more sensitive to adverse events than others, hence why two people can have similar trauma to one another but one person might be more resilient to those experiences compared to the other person, partly because of biological differences between the two individuals.

Who knows? Maybe everything I said here was just a reflection of my unknowingly projecting my own guilt and experiences onto others, maybe what I'm saying is the truth, or maybe it's a mix of both. This post is kind of just a series of nonsensical thoughts that I tried to organize into something comprehensible and I don't think that I did too good of a job at it. Then again, I'm not great at explaining shit. 😕

Anyways, smell ya later!
Yeah I get people are hypocrites which is why I make sure to hold myself to the same standards I hold others to. I think can actually make these "assumptions" about him because he literally will have crowds of people coddling him at every tantrum he throws in public. I've lived a lot of places and have known a lot of people, and none of them have ever had the support to the extent that he does.

But yeah whatever I do even if it's objectively nice like opening the door everything makes him mad. I'm sure he thinks very highly of himself since he's always the center of attention, and acts like he's a SJW. Everything is for his reputation and saving face though. He's not an honest person, and very obviously doesn't have any remorse.

Thats good that you realize you were a bully and I hope you tried to make it up to them.
I don't know the specifics of your situation, but this is quite a can of worms.
Every action we take has a causal chain of consequence, and ultimately there will be something upstream which was out of our control. If you believe yourself not to be responsible for your actions because of something that was done to you in the past, why shouldn't that same like of thinking apply to the one who wronged you? From a strictly philosophical perspective you're brushing up against the limitations of free will as a concept. In practice, our intuitions around who's responsible for what is just going to come down to our emotional response around the specific circumstances.
Right sorry maybe if I didn't transition my family wouldn't hate me and I wouldn't be bullied to suicide. Maybe if I wasn't struggling in life I wouldn't have to deal with people threatening to kill me.
op- regardless of anything said here I hope you remember this

It's the abusers job to recognize the impact their behavior has on other people. Period. No "perspective" bs. Abuse is abuse and it's wrong. Trauma doesn't give them a green light to go around abusing other people and their "perspective" doesn't excuse them from accepting that their behavior damaged someone. Other situations you may have been involved in are irrelevant to your situation with this person. By claiming to be victimized by someone, you are not saying you are ALWAYS the victim or have never been the unhealthy person in any situation. And being the unhealthy person in some parts of life doesn't invalidate your experience in the current situation.

People deserve validation when they feel bullied, abused, or taken advantage of. And that's it. No one is perfect, and you still don't deserve to be treated like shit or have your experiences invalidated nor are you required to accept or ignore when someone else's unhealthy behavior has a negative impact on you.
Thanks yeah I think I have a right to be upset about really devastating things. Otherwise, that's like saying anyone who's ever experienced oppression systemically or personally were asking for it. Especially if I have proof that I was doing better before the bullying happened.
 
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