Venting Why do people say people shouldn't have children ?

[Painless_end]

Sometimes I see some social media comment sections turning into arguments and sometimes the arguments relates to should people have children or not considering the "overpopulation" problem and limited resources on earth.

It strikes me as a foolish argument. Firstly, if your parents or their parents had followed this exact same policy, you wouldn't even be alive today to type these stupid comments.

Secondly, people always want others to have less children or no children as if that will solve anything against the major macroeconomic problems. Respectfully, why don't you end your life first and contribute towards less humans on the planet ? Who the heck are you to judge others over having kids that they can financially support till they're 18 and raise them to become good, productive, and kind people in society ?

Thirdly, if the existing resources on earth are properly managed, you can feed and clothe all the existing human population. That's the problem you should work on.

Lastly, sexual urges resulting in pregnancy and birth of new living creatures are a natural driving force for most of the normal human population (not like us here, including myself). There are some who are childless voluntarily, and that's great too if that makes you happy.

The only scenario where judging someone as illogical for producing children is valid according to me, is if one of the parents doesn't want to take care of the child for reasons that could be financial, health related, or personal. And this happens in very poor places like backward communities living in any part of the world, where they are unaware of contraceptives and the husband usually forces the wife to bear multiple children against her will. This may not happen in all their cases, but it may happen in some.


Bottom line is, you can provide information about contraceptives and family planning and sexual education. But you can't judge people harshly for wanting to have babies especially when both the parents have made an informed and educated decision to have babies and financially and physically support all their birthed children till adulthood.

Nobody cares if you're childfree or making babies, neither group of people gets to judge the other.

 

[StreetSweeper]

I think when somebody has such an extreme hate for life, like would take out the whole world with them and call it a kindness, cant fathom bringing another person into this world just to suffer. Their pain gives them a sort of blindness to the good things in life. Happy people exist. Functional families exist. This can threaten the ideaology of some who only beleives life is suffering, so the biggest offenders in their eyes are the people who "continue the cycle". I think people who lash out at people with children are upset that people can thrive in the same space they suffer in. Then you have guilt trippers, like suicide becomes taboo when you have kids because you brought them into this world and are now leaving them. Its a sensitive subject, but imo, there isnt really a moral winner depending on how many upset people you leave behind. Like their suicide is more righteous because they never had a kid. Poor taste. You are allowed to think kids are a bad idea, but its a pretty shitty move to go around throwing that in parents faces. Moral grandstanding at its worst.

 

[Painless_end]

I think when somebody has such an extreme hate for life, like would take out the whole world with them and call it a kindness, cant fathom bringing another person into this world just to suffer. Their pain gives them a sort of blindness to the good things in life. Happy people exist. Functional families exist. This can threaten the ideaology of some who only beleives life is suffering, so the biggest offenders in their eyes are the people who "continue the cycle". I think people who lash out at people with children are upset that people can thrive in the same space they suffer in. Then you have guilt trippers, like suicide becomes taboo when you have kids because you brought them into this world and are now leaving them. Its a sensitive subject, but imo, there isnt really a moral winner depending on how many upset people you leave behind. Like their suicide is more righteous because they never had a kid. Poor taste. You are allowed to think kids are a bad idea, but its a pretty shitty move to go around throwing that in parents faces. Moral grandstanding at its worst.

Thank you, you have shared your thoughts very well. This is exactly what I was talking about.

Like if you don't want to have kids, that's totally fine. I can't force you to have kids, and you can't force me to not have kids as long as I take full responsibility for raising them correctly till they become adults.

What if one of them cures cancer, another one finds solution for feeding world hunger, or someone makes breakthrough discovery in technology.

Literally all of the good things we enjoy today is because the parents of future scientists and engineers and doctors didn't abort them.

Again, this is not about abortion. If you want, you can happily abort your kids or not have any in the first place. But you can't tell me or others to do the same.

Nobody got time for such nonsense, especially not functional adults wanting to be good parents.

 

[FuneralCry]

The truth is that there is no reason to bring life into this world. I believe that we would all have been better off never existing. It's selfish to bring life into this world for your own benefit. Life is completely unnecessary in the first place, and creating life is just creating endless problems and suffering that would inevitably be experienced and inflicted on to other beings and as I said there was never a need for any of this in the first place. This is tragic to me.

If no life existed on this earth then there would be no pain being experienced. And even if someone is born into circumstances that are not particularly awful, life holds such extreme potential for suffering to be experienced. Nobody can predict how horrible life could get in the future and there are an unlimited amount of ways in which living beings can be tortured. Nobody can guarantee that life will be a positive experience for that person, and what really is so positive and valuable about life in general to justify the risk of bringing someone here. Nobody can deny all of the endless cruelty in this world.

Another problem is that we live in a world which makes suicide so difficult for people to leave behind a life that they never asked for. It's unfair how people are forced into a life that they never asked for and yet they have to struggle so much in finding ways to leave. Our right to die should at least be respected. Even if someone is born into not so awful circumstances there is no guarantee that they will want to be here. There are an unlimited amount of reasons why someone could want to die, as we all know.

One only has to look at the world around them and see life for what it really is to understand why so many people are against bringing life here. Life is just an unnecessary burden after all, and I believe the existence of life to be nothing but a cruel mistake.

 

[Un-]

I'm not for people judging others for having kids. I think that's a dick mood. But I do think having children is incredibly selfish.

It strikes me as a foolish argument. Firstly, if your parents or their parents had followed this exact same policy, you wouldn't even be alive today to type these stupid comments

And that'd amazing. Even if I wasn't suicidal, there's a lot of things shit about the world. I'm sure a lot of people on this forum much more intelligent than I have already talked about it.

Secondly, people always want others to have less children or no children as if that will solve anything against the major macroeconomic problems. Respectfully, why don't you end your life first and contribute towards less humans on the planet ?

I want to. I really do.

Thirdly, if the existing resources on earth are properly managed, you can feed and clothe all the existing human population. That's the problem you should work on

We can't. Scientists have already said that the fight against climate change is over. We're too late. Farming as it is, commercially, is unsustainable. There's a lot of biproducts that are harmful to the environment that are produced en masse. Agriculture, and power generation result in the same thing. We're using up Earth in ways that it shouldn't be.

I mean, look at this reddit thread:

Like it's not.. It's not difficult to see that, just from an environmental perspective, in the future to come, we're fucked. Exponentially fucked. Overpopulation isn't helping in the slightest. Have you seen the slums in India? Where I am in South Africa, homelessness is ridiculous. Class disparity is ridiculous, and it won't ever change.

Because a lot of these issues are the result of selfish people. People who only think for themselves. Be it politicians, billionaires, and people who insist on bringing in poor souls into this planet that ultimately don't do anything.

It reminds me of that Bill Burr joke:

Lastly, sexual urges resulting in pregnancy and birth of new living creatures are a natural driving force for most of the normal human population (not like us here, including myself). There are some who are childless voluntarily, and that's great too if that makes you happy.

I mean there are natural urges that.. Probably later on we'll have to abandon for our sustainability. Whether we like it or not, veganism might end up being something a lot of people have to adopt because it's good for our environment.. But, naturally, we eat meat. We can't have it both ways.. We can't have what we want, but reject the consequences of our actions.

Like.. Every population of every species in an environment has a carrying capacity. You breach that capacity, and the environment suffers. Like how, because wolves died, the population.. Of.. I think it was deer.. Got really large, and the environment shat itself because of it:

It's the exact same thing with human beings. The environment is shitting itself because of us.

Bottom line is, you can provide information about contraceptives and family planning and sexual education. But you can't judge people harshly for wanting to have babies especially when both the parents have made an informed and educated decision to have babies and financially and physically support all their birthed children till adulthood

Again, I wanna make it clear that I'm not judging people that have kids. You made the decision? That's your life. But I do think the sooner people start adopting, or finding meaning and satisfaction in other things, instead of being a slave to their balls and ovaries, the better chances humanity has of squeezing out a couple more years.

I think when somebody has such an extreme hate for life, like would take out the whole world with them and call it a kindness, cant fathom bringing another person into this world just to suffer. Their pain gives them a sort of blindness to the good things in life. Happy people exist. Functional families exist. This can threaten the ideaology of some who only beleives life is suffering, so the biggest offenders in their eyes are the people who "continue the cycle".

Goddamm good point there. But it.. Sigh.. Just because you, yourself, in your bubble are enjoying things, doesn't mean you get to ignore how you're affecting everything around you, y'know? But that's not what people do. A lot of people don't think about their role in these catastrophic.. Things. These shit shows.

It's like abortion. I hate to make such a crude example but here we go. Regardless if you are for or against it, you can't stand by and vote for nobody.. And then get mad when the turn over is something you don't like. The same thing with parents and shit. You can't keep fucking, and fucking, and then when more and more articles come out about how utterly fucked WE are on this planet, be upset that we're sitting in the dumpster fuckfest that we are.

Either way, overpopulation isn't the only problem. But it is a problem. A pretty big one. We're closing in on 8 billion people. Around the early 90s, we were at 3 billion. Now we're at 8. This isn't a fucking joke.

World Population: 1950-2050

These visualizations are of World Population: 1950-2050.

www.census.gov

 

[MelancholyMagic]

you wouldn't even be alive today to type these stupid comments.

If only that was the case. I wish!

Respectfully, why don't you end your life first and contribute towards less humans on the planet ?

A typical response is that antinatalists should stay around to spread their ideas and prevent others from having children. Besides, if you CTB, someone just like you will be born after you die and will suffer. Would have been better if you could have prevented this birth while you were still alive.

if the existing resources on earth are properly managed, you can feed and clothe all the existing human population

You're probably correct, but there are other things to worry about than if the earth can support x number of humans (e.g., like how those humans will suffer).

Lastly, sexual urges resulting in pregnancy and birth of new living creatures are a natural driving force for most of the normal human population

'Urges' are the foundation of a lot of terrible behavior (I'm sure your imagination can go wild on examples). Doesn't make it OK.

 

[Pluto]

It is good seeing a counterpoint perspective to the antinatalist narrative, if nothing else to demonstrate our tolerance for diversity of opinion. More importantly, this should be a welcoming community to all who are here in good faith, without any demonisation of any particular groups in terms of gender, nationality or parental status.

Antinatalism in this context can read as a political and philosophical expression of suicidal despair, including the view that life is 'bad' and it would be far better to have not been born. An intellectual theory driven by an individual's personal grief.

Meanwhile, happy individuals are out there. Functional families exist. Yet the human species is itself a dysfunctional family; war, malnourishment, corruption and greed are our domestic violence. Humanity's its overall influence on other species of the planet fares even worse, ranging from exploitative to genocidal.

With this in mind, my personal take is that it is ethically acceptable to bring children into this world if they are not only nurtured/loved/etc. as a part of a healthy family, but raised in ways that strike a sensible balance between self-interest and positive contributions towards all ecological/humanitarian crises afflicting the world.

The calamities faced by the world are not addressed by asking environmentalists to kill themselves, nor by ignoring wider issues and pumping out children based on the attitude that humanity's troubles are somebody else's problem. And to bring it full circle, I wish that people who are incapable or unwilling to care properly for their children were prevented from being entrusted with young lives in the first place. Even though that would mean I wouldn't have been born to make this stupid post.

 

[Dead Ghost]

As for me, if I was well, I would have liked to have children and teach them everything I have learned, the good and the bad. My suffering comes from the misunderstanding of the people around me not from my perception of life.

I believe that suffering is necessary, otherwise we would have a shorter life or the entire human species would have already disappeared.
What happens is that our suffering is completely overwhelmed, there is a very clear imbalance and it mainly affects the way we live and live together. And the culture that permeates our society does not make it any easier for us to understand it and how to accept it or deal with it in a reasonable way.

I guess that's why we're suicidal, right?, because of our inability to accept suffering as a way of life and especially because in our case the negative impact it has on our day to day is disproportionate.

But still, I would have liked to have children.

//

A mi, de trobar-me bé, m'hagués agradat tenir fills i ensenya'ls-hi tot el que he aprés, el bó i el dolent. El meu patiment surt de la incomprenssió de la gent que hi ha al meu voltant no de la meva percepció de la vida.

Crec que el patiment és necessari, sinó tindriem una vida mes curta o el conjunt de la espécie humana ja hagués desaparegut.
El que passa el que nostre patiment està totalment desbordat, hi ha un desequilibri molt clar i afecta sobretot a la nostra manera de viure i conviure. I la cultura que impregna la nostra societat no ens facilita gens la comprenssió d'aquest i com acceptar-lo o fer-hi front d'una manera raonable.

Suposo que per això som suïcides no?, per la nostra incapacitat per acceptar el patiment com mode de viure i sobretot perquè en el nostre cas és desmesurat l'impacte negatiu que te en el nostre día a día.

Però així i tot, m'hagués agradat tenir fills.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

Yeah I wanted kids back in the day, quite early on in life too. My thinking was to work hard and start early, and have it "out of the way" while still pretty young. But life threw me a lot of curveballs. I picked bad partners and then I became chronically ill, so everything went out of the window.

This was all long before antinatalist movements gained traction on the internet. At the time, it was just assumed you'd have children. I think I'm the only one of my old friends from high school who never did.

 

[noaccount]

You're completely right that 'overpopulation' is not the problem and not a real thing.
In fact the links that Un posted actually do a great job of proving that, ironically - that the climate catastrophe wasn't caused by population size nor even individual lifestyle choices but by infrastructures built to perpetuate a growth-economy system that enriches a small owning class at the expense of most people's subsistence.

The only argument really complicating things is how many people do wish they themselves had not been born.