Why can pro-lifers just try to understand

[Scythe]

note: this post is supposed to be tagged venting but SS doesn't let me add it rn

Like wtf are they doing, I think by this point they know they are wrong, they just want attention. I feel It's becoming one of the conspiracy theory / cult suituations, where the leader tricks everyone else into believing something they know is a lie. Because whoever that stops this website will be praised as a hero for SaViNg ThE MentaLLy UnsTable. So it would make sense all the fucking media and pro-lifers are doing it for attention. There's like no other explanation. They've made no effort researching, they've nit-picked their statistics as always. They have to know by now that shutting this site down will cause more suicides. If they really wanted to solve the issue, look for the underlying issues. You don't blame the tool for a murder, you blame the murderer. There's so much underlying issues these fucking morons can use their energy to fight, why are they trying to disable only parts of the tool. There will always be trains, ropes, subways, and other things around. This community shouldn't even be considered a tool, a lot of us are here to vent because these fucking idiots also want us to shut up about our problems so nobody else catch our "disease".

*postive note: I don't think the US police got time to catch every single US SaSu user if the new bill really got past. They got much better shit to do. So hopefully it just becomes like the alcohol rule for minors in China. (Basically there's a law that says stores can't sell alcohol to kids with no guardien accompanying them, but nobody gives a shit.)

 

[hungry_ghost]

This community shouldn't even be considered a tool, a lot of us are here to vent because these fucking idiots also want us to shut up about our problems so nobody else catch our "disease".

Exactly.

Technically speaking, no one needs to come here for the means to unalive themselves.

They can do that on their own.

It's not like people sign up and get a free kit, lol.

Mostly, this is a judge-free place where people can vent pro-suicide sentiments because pretty much every other platform disallows it.

 

[TAW122]

Good post and yes, it seems like they are doing it so they can feel good about themselves having done something to stop suicide when it really doesn't do much to help the situation overall. I agree that if this site does shut down or similar event happens, then yes, there will likely be more suicides as this site/forum is one of the few platforms (if not the only one) that alllows discussion of methods as well as a safe space for people to discuss about suicide as a topic, without all the censorship and bullshit that everywhere else has.

To me, it seems like prolifers are perpetuating a vicious cycle of control and doom. I'm going to assume they know the logic but are being playing "dumb" intentionally. With that said, it goes like this: They create or contribute to the conditions that would make people want to CTB or have suicidal ideation, then when said people become suicidal, they shove their half-assed platitudes and other interventions (including the use of force to detain someone against their will - involuntary hold, commitment, etc.), thus driving away people from being honest and some people find safe spaces to confide in such as SaSu or similar other areas. Then they seek to shut down places like these, claiming they are helping the suicidal but only making the suicidal even more suicidal and they (pro-lifers) double down on their intervention measures and escalate their efforts to more tightly infringe on the rights of suicidal individuals claiming that suicidal individuals are irrational and lack the ability to make decisions on their own. The cycle then rinses and repeats until the suicidal becomes cured (very likely never, they just get swept under a rug and forgotten about as a lost cause, then onto the next person), actually CTBs violently and without dignity (suffering along the way), or fails and ends up as a vegetable while being slated to live the remainder of their lives in agony and suffering (until natural causes or other causes take their lives).

This is also why I remain unapologetic about my "war" or crusade against prolifers (but I won't go down that tangent).

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

Well, I think it helps to view it from the standpoint of loss. Many parents can't fathom the loss of a child and let's face it, we're by and large younger people on here. No doubt a good chunk of it is virtue signaling and/or hero-savior complex, but I think if you look at the staunchest opponents, they're invariably parents who have lost a kid. My feeling is religion may also play a role, what with the whole "going to hell" thing.

I'm not convinced it's all just to piss in our cornflakes, I think a lot of these people genuinely believe they're doing the right thing. They see those of us who are still alive as dangerous, because they think we may influence others to ctb. That is, until *we* do something to ourselves, then it's the rest of the living evildoers who are to blame.

I guess I've resigned myself to always encountering opposition on this front. I can't logically expect others to endorse life-ending measures in most scenarios. Many people do enjoy their lives and believe that life is inherently good, or a "gift". They simply haven't had an existence where everything is so negative that they'd rather not have it at all. Being in pain all day every day is not something most can reasonably envision.

With that said, there is a segment of the pro-life crowd who absolutely refuse to see any kind of reason and will resort to cheap and dirty tricks to be "right". But really, I see that as basically your average Facebook debate, whereby people just want to be correct and aren't super invested in the issue beyond their own ego insofar as making a point or winning the argument.

I think it's always going to be a case of an uphill battle, with the most the average person willing to agree to is something like euthanasia for the terminally ill. And as much as I yearn for the good old Futurama ctb-booth, I think the idea of putting up proverbial safety nets everywhere to catch people before they do something is only going to get worse. We're living in more of a moralistic society these days, and sadly I believe a good portion of that is going be directed at ctb-prevention.

How can life possibly be bad when anyone can lead a great, fulfilling, and Instagram-worthy existence with enough effort? That's a moronic line of thinking, and yet I believe it's at least somewhat ingrained among people. Chronic pain, loneliness, isolation, debt, depression and whatever else just aren't really things in this world of cognitive dissonance.

 

[CannotAnymore]

Pro-Lifers care more about the idea of life than they do the actual life. I think it also has alot to do with themself as opposed to the victim. Everyone has their go to response 'just go to therapy', or 'talk to someone'... Oh so they can ostracize you and get you locked up and called crazy... I mean most of us are so lost and in so much pain that wanting to die is a description of the severity of pain as much as it is a desire to end life.
I am sure most of us here HATE the anonymity of this site and wishes you could talk to a 'real' person. I am lucky that I have one friend that understands and that I can vent to but man oh man.
We also don't really talk about ctb... once someone does it... everyone puts up their hashtags and finds a photo.. you know the mental health matters... let's blame the invisible disease... uh it's not invisible.. you just swept it under the rug

 

[Celerity]

If it passes, I wonder if it will stand up in the courts. Their definition of assisting they have here is really broad to my ears. Encouraging someone personally or even selling them tools specifically to end their life (e.g. SN) is very different than posting information about how to commit suicide, and the vast majority of content on this site (like this thread) doesn't even fall under their broad definition.

"'(1) ASSIST.—The term 'assist' means, with respect to a person assisting another individual in taking that individual's own life, that— ''(A) the person specifically aims to facilitate the individual's suicide; and ''(B) the person furnishes the individual with substantial material support to facilitate the suicide, or with substantial communication facilitating the suicide at the same time as an attempt or act of suicide is occurring. ''(2) MATERIAL SUPPORT.—The term 'material support' means any tangible property.''.

All that said, it may only to end the site as we know it. Legal battles are protracted and expensive. Just shutting this site down for a few months is probably enough to end it and discourage others from creating alternatives.

 

[FuneralCry]

At least to me for anyone to be against suicide in a world like this, then they are insane. It's disturbing how people wish to make it as difficult as possible for us to die. There is no value to trying to force someone to endure a life that they never asked for in the first place, when suicide is so hard with a lack of peaceful and reliable method options then existence is nothing more than a prison and we are punished because of the decisions of others to selfishly procreate.

I believe that those types of people (the pro lifers)have delusional ideas about the reality of this existence, they cannot comprehend what it's like to wish to leave this life behind and maybe their attitudes towards suicide are also due to selfishness, they wouldn't want to lose a family member or friend to it so they push the view that suicide is wrong for everyone. But even they can end up in a situation of horrific suffering and then maybe they would likely wish for a peaceful method. They should have no right to interfere with others life decisions, they cannot experience life the same way so what gives them the right to try to interfere.

But after all, all humans will die eventually. It seems as though those people forget this fact. Grief and loss are simply inevitable in life and death could never be a negative thing as it's what we are destined for. Staying alive is only delaying the inevitable anyway so if someone wishes to leave this life behind at a time of their own choosing to prevent unnecessary suffering, then there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think like @Angst Filled Fuck Up said- these viewpoints, bills and articles are almost always written from the viewpoint of the grieving families. Plus, how many of them say the 'victim' gave no signs of being depressed or struggling? I'm sure many of the families were actually supportive and tried their best and of course- I feel desperately sorry for them but they're unlikely to say- actually, we just missed all the signs and in the very worst cases- we're partly to blame.

The tabloids and government don't want to admit that their future's looked bleak, that their state of mind had been ignored or that the treatment they had received hadn't worked. They'd much rather say they had a brilliant future ahead of them that was cruelly taken away by the evil internet.

It makes you wonder how many of the 'normies' out there truly believe that these people were actually largely doing ok but happened to get caught up in some sort of evil online suicide cult that convinced them it would be better to end it all.

Totally agree with you- I watched an interview with a mental healthcare worker once who said: 'If a patient wants to kill themselves- they'll find a way.' (Paraphrasing there) And that was a secure unit! Imagine the restrictions there- no SS, very little access to anything to do it with and they still manage. Perhaps they will reduce numbers because some folk may not be able to bring themselves to do the only methods left for them but God, what an inhumane race we are.