Venting Where's the Supposed Love for Trans Men?

[Seered Doom]

Seriously, as a trans guy myself, I feel like I don't belong anywhere. We all know the main groups that I obviously don't belong in nor do I want to be in that sort of area, so let's go further to where I would want to belong. I don't belong in my nerdy interest groups bc I'm not a cis person and even when I was a cis girl, they segregated me because I'm not like them. Most are boys, so I shouldn't be talking about it. I don't feel like I belong in the LGBT+ community sometimes because there's not many resources for trans men nor are there many 18+ trans men out there so it's practically pointless. Then we all know how mental health groups don't even understand how we are, yet given how many mental disorders I have, no one wants to be around any of me. It's so lonely. I bet you anything there's no one here who'd be able to listen to me about this.

 

[Suicidebydeath]

The world can be cruel, I'm sorry for your pain and anguish.

 

[Nymph]

Hey, I'm willing to listen. I'm also a trans guy and I'm experiencing similar stuff. Besides that I just struggle with the fact that I'm trans and have to be like this forever. The fact that I will never be able to experience a happy life in the correct body.

 

[Seered Doom]

I'm just upset that there's barely any rep or love for trans men as there are of trans women. It seems like in most anywhere I look for trans affirmation, most, if not, all of it is solely just for trans women/transfemme and near zilch for trans men/transmasc

 

[BluesRunTheGame]

I'm just upset that there's barely any rep or love for trans men as there are of trans women. It seems like in most anywhere I look for trans affirmation, most, if not, all of it is solely just for trans women/transfemme and near zilch for trans men/transmasc

The same could be said for cis men compared to cis women tbh.

 

[Seered Doom]

I am talking specifically for trans men/transmasc individuals. I do not wish to make this a gender debate. I made this post to look for support for trans men/transmasc people since there's barely a goddamn thing anywhere else including most safe spaces for trans people of all walks of life. There's plenty for cisgender people of all types and for trans women/transfemme individuals which is good. I just wish there were more for trans men/transmasc individuals.

 

[BluesRunTheGame]

I am talking specifically for trans men/transmasc individuals. I do not wish to make this a gender debate. I made this post to look for support for trans men/transmasc people since there's barely a goddamn thing anywhere else including most safe spaces for trans people of all walks of life. There's plenty for cisgender people of all types and for trans women/transfemme individuals which is good. I just wish there were more for trans men/transmasc individuals.

Well this is the decade we live in.

 

[Spectre]

Well this is the decade we live in.

I understand you are trying to relate by bring in your own experience. But this post is dealing with things that quite frankly do not concern you. It might be a good idea to mute this thread and maybe focus on one that specifically talks about cis male issues.

 

[BluesRunTheGame]

I understand you are trying to relate by bring in your own experience. But this post is dealing with things that quite frankly do not concern you. It might be a good idea to mute this thread and maybe focus on one that specifically talks about cis male issues.

STFU.

 

[edu0z]

Seriously, as a trans guy myself, I feel like I don't belong anywhere. We all know the main groups that I obviously don't belong in nor do I want to be in that sort of area, so let's go further to where I would want to belong. I don't belong in my nerdy interest groups bc I'm not a cis person and even when I was a cis girl, they segregated me because I'm not like them. Most are boys, so I shouldn't be talking about it. I don't feel like I belong in the LGBT+ community sometimes because there's not many resources for trans men nor are there many 18+ trans men out there so it's practically pointless. Then we all know how mental health groups don't even understand how we are, yet given how many mental disorders I have, no one wants to be around any of me. It's so lonely. I bet you anything there's no one here who'd be able to listen to me about this.

Look at it on the bright side... that feeling of "not belonging anywhere and having no support, being on your own" is a feeling that all men experience... so welcome to the club.

 

[beelzebul]

i think you are severely underestimating how accepting your male friends are capable of being. in all of my life, the only ones who have fully accepted me as a man are my male friends (parents aside). one of my friends, who i have known since BEFORE i transitioned, told me in recent years that he forgets i am even trans/doesn't consider me trans. he just sees me as another man. it's been like this for EVERY male friend i have had, and while i know not every man will be as accepting, i think it's worth considering that men are more accepting of you than you think.

transmen (talking only about transmen here) experience basically all of the societal and personal problems that cis men do. many MANY cis men understand this... and if they don't, gently tell them that we do. i have never experienced loneliness, sexism, judgment, etc like i do now, now that i am a man (since 17, when i fully started passing). many cis men understand that we're men, just like them.

if your male friends wind up not accepting you, and i hate to say it, then they aren't your friends. and lots of people won't like this, but of all the trans "communities", transmed and truscum are the most accepting of transmen. it might be worth meeting some people from those communities.

 

[Abyssal]

Not liking how this thread is derailing into a "cis men have it bad too!" debate. I've noticed it too, how trans men are treated not just as a phase, but also online I've noticed there's a more socially acceptable standpoint of making fun of trans men. It seems to be strangely rooted into the weird anti feminist mindset when "real gamers" were stereotyping all people who called them out on their misogyny as tumblr trans men with blue hair who get triggered when you say "guys". I think anyone with a few brain cells can understand why that was an awful time to be alive in the gaming community unless you were a cis man, but for whatever reason that view of trans men stuck. It's certainly gotten much better from there, but there's a lasting effect I believe.

Oh and don't get me started on how people view a trans man pre t and call them an "uwu smol boy" like they are a pet or something. Fuck me, even many of the people who do support trans men stereotype them.

 

[Heem wasnt there]

Not liking how this thread is derailing into a "cis men have it bad too!" debate. I've noticed it too, how trans men are treated not just as a phase, but also online I've noticed there's a more socially acceptable standpoint of making fun of trans men. It seems to be strangely rooted into the weird anti feminist mindset when "real gamers" were stereotyping all people who called them out on their misogyny as tumblr trans men with blue hair who get triggered when you say "guys". I think anyone with a few brain cells can understand why that was an awful time to be alive in the gaming community unless you were a cis man, but for whatever reason that view of trans men stuck. It's certainly gotten much better from there, but there's a lasting effect I believe.

Oh and don't get me started on how people view a trans man pre t and call them an "uwu smol boy" like they are a pet or something. Fuck me, even many of the people who do support trans men stereotype them.

God, yes. This exactly. Having accepting friends is great, until they start getting more comfy and revealing how they really feel. The number of times I've been stereotyped by people who I've always trusted is insane. I'm so over the "smol boy" thing, it drives me INSANE. Like be supportive FULLY, or don't even bother at this point smh.

 

[SexyIncél]

Interesting, I've wondered this too. Feminism & the manosphere seem the obvious places to find such lit. I think there's basically a crisis of masculinity. Depending on how it's resolved, things may be better or worse for trans men

But feminists have a self-destructive & ironic bias against understanding masculinity. They're missing the window when many men want badly to redefine it, letting the manosphere do it. Haha oops

And afaik the manosphere doesn't care about trans guys in particular; even the best of it reinforces hierarchical social structures. The only exception I know is sigma males, who are basically vague anarchists. Orion Taraban's definition of masculinity may be interesting to you, as it can apply to anyone regardless of biology

bell hooks said:

Nowadays I am amazed that women who advocate feminist politics have had so little to say about men and masculinity. [...] Feminist thinkers, like myself, who wanted to include men in the discussion were usually labeled male-identified and dismissed. We were "sleeping with the enemy." We were the feminists who could not be trusted because we cared about the fate of men. We were the feminists who did not believe in female superiority any more than we believed in male superiority. [...] Indeed, even the radical feminist labeling of all men as oppressors and all women as victims was a way to deflect attention away from the reality of men and our ignorance about them. To simply label them as oppressors and dismiss them meant we never had to give voice to the gaps in our understanding or to talk about maleness in complex ways.

Maybe the best lit is found outside those two. Like queer anarchism? Or you could help write it? Seems there'd be an eager audience

 

[UKscotty]

The forum gets a lot of attacks in the gay media for being supportive of trans suicide and supposedly being too welcoming.

It might not be the best place for supportive discussion.

Maybe try the recovery section?

 

[Seered Doom]

Not liking how this thread is derailing into a "cis men have it bad too!" debate. I've noticed it too, how trans men are treated not just as a phase, but also online I've noticed there's a more socially acceptable standpoint of making fun of trans men. It seems to be strangely rooted into the weird anti feminist mindset when "real gamers" were stereotyping all people who called them out on their misogyny as tumblr trans men with blue hair who get triggered when you say "guys". I think anyone with a few brain cells can understand why that was an awful time to be alive in the gaming community unless you were a cis man, but for whatever reason that view of trans men stuck. It's certainly gotten much better from there, but there's a lasting effect I believe.

Oh and don't get me started on how people view a trans man pre t and call them an "uwu smol boy" like they are a pet or something. Fuck me, even many of the people who do support trans men stereotype them.

Literally this. Thank you for mentioning the pre-t part since I am in that category. I hate being infantilized and it just keeps going. There's literally no end to it. The recovery section won't help with this and it's extremely hard to get any care about being a trans person when cisgender individuals keep derailing it to how you describe it. I know y'all who mention cis men are trying to help with those comments, but I am talking about a specific subset and trying to put cis people of any gender in this is not helping in this, I am sorry. I am asking for specifics since people keep telling me to be more specific, but it seems like if I do, I'll just get people who don't seem to actually understand what I am saying.

Interesting, I've wondered this too. Feminism & the manosphere seem the obvious places to find such lit. I think there's basically a crisis of masculinity. Depending on how it's resolved, things may be better or worse for trans men

But feminists have a self-destructive & ironic bias against understanding masculinity. They're missing the window when many men want badly to redefine it, letting the manosphere do it. Haha oops

And afaik the manosphere doesn't care about trans guys in particular; even the best of it reinforces hierarchical social structures. The only exception I know is sigma males, who are basically vague anarchists. Orion Taraban's definition of masculinity may be interesting to you, as it can apply to anyone regardless of biology

bell hooks said:


Maybe the best lit is found outside those two. Like queer anarchism? Or you could help write it? Seems there'd be an eager audience

Judging how this is being discussed here, I have the myopic view that no one will actually be able to understand. I hope queer anarchism has something but yeah, I'm actually livid that the places that say they're all accepting are actually not and it shows. Thank you for this comment. I feel less alone now.

God, yes. This exactly. Having accepting friends is great, until they start getting more comfy and revealing how they really feel. The number of times I've been stereotyped by people who I've always trusted is insane. I'm so over the "smol boy" thing, it drives me INSANE. Like be supportive FULLY, or don't even bother at this point smh.

Omg, this is literally my mentality too. Thank you so much for this. I needed this

 

[doomedtolive]

i'm a trans guy too, nice to know there are others on here (^.^)/~~

 

[MarsProxy]

My partner was transmasc and I miss his presence every day. I have nobody else like him in my life and it's devastating.

 

[Passenger01]

So two of my kids are trans, both finally on the correct hormones. One, crippled by social phobia and anxiety, has begun to emerge from his shell since starting T (f2m) and one has found her feet since starting on Oestrogen.
Seems to me they were both destined to misery until the meds; both dysphoric from early ages and both deeply unhappy people.
The other two are nonbinary and thats partly solidarity, part realisation about the myths of gender.
I find the difficulties f2m folk face is far harder than the m2f but it does depend on where you seek support. But also on who's running the groups too. Its tricky but yes the world is pretty fucked up still on this one and that includes some elements of the LGBTQI+ community.
Life's a bitch but i do think the trans debate is still so mired in polarity of views that its a way off getting it right.
My two arent into the 'scene' and just want to live a quiet life; so finding good folk is even harder in some ways outside of the scene stuff.
But yes, its harder for f2m people generally - kind of a limboland of not really being understood by anyone else is what i found over the years and its really pretty shit imho.

Much love

 

[Seered Doom]

Oh my gosh, thank you!!!! Solidarity with all trans people and protect the trans kids. I love how the point is understood by such a majority of you, trans people and allies alike. I'm so happy to meet other trans men and transmasc people here.

 

[edu0z]

I find the difficulties f2m folk face is far harder than the m2f but it does depend on where you seek support. But also on who's running the groups too. Its tricky but yes the world is pretty fucked up still on this one and that includes some elements of the LGBTQI+ community.
Life's a bitch but i do think the trans debate is still so mired in polarity of views that its a way off getting it right.
My two arent into the 'scene' and just want to live a quiet life; so finding good folk is even harder in some ways outside of the scene stuff.
But yes, its harder for f2m people generally - kind of a limboland of not really being understood by anyone else is what i found over the years and its really pretty shit imho.

Much love

If a woman breaks down crying, everyone around her will try to console her, but if a man breaks down crying in public, it is most likely that people who don't know him will make fun of him and his intimate group will encourage him to "be a man" and stopped crying.

I can only think that in trans groups it is similar, that is how society works, it is the roles (whether we like them or not)

Take the test and search for motivational videos on YouTube. The videos aimed at a female audience are like giving someone a hug and telling them that it's okay to have failed and it's okay to feel bad, the videos for boys the message is something like: "You can't let them defeat you, it's you against the world." "Become strong, you must win"

I'm not a sociologist, but you don't have to be to realize this.

I didn't mean to be rude, or turn it into a gender issue... but it doesn't surprise me that there is so much difference between m2f and f2m... men are expected to be strong, weakness is punished.

 

[painIess]

Honestly, I think the LGBTQ community is toxic af and doesn't represent LGBTQ people at all, only a vocal minority of self minded people

I'm agender/demi-male (whatever that means) sort of because I decided gender roles don't matter to me and labels are limiting, so I only call myself a guy because of the mere coincidence of my biological sex being male and being treated accordingly my whole life. Also, I'm demi-panromantic and demi-pansexual because I only feel sexually attracted to someone sometimes, but their gender doesn't matter, although I prefer bodies with mostly feminine features, and I only feel romantically attracted to someone sometimes as well, and, romantically speaking, I may be attracted to anyone

That being said, I don't think the LGBTQ community represents me and I don't consider myself part of it

 

[casual_existence]

As much as I sympathize with your plight this whole lgbtq stuff is relatively new to real life like super new. It's not about gender despite guys wanting to make it about that for some reason. Even this whole accepting men's feelings or whatever (which is utterly unrelated to trans men (plz stop bringing it up yes we know you suffer goddamn)) is brand new. It'll take a generation or two before things are properly entrenched and keep in mind this is a Western thing. In the rest of the world some form of conservatism reigns supreme.

Think about how long it took for women (half the population) to get their rights and their own spaces and all that good stuff (still not great but it's better (actually considering the ruling about abortion I'm not so sure)). Who knows how long it'll take for a minority (of a minority) to get all the support and love that you deserve. These things take time.

As for the people bringing men's rights up and the definition of manliness. I don't know if you've ever worked with people that bitch and complain all the time but I have and it sucks so much. Nobody likes that kind of person.

Most of this just comes down to how we view the world but that's a whole 'nother topic

 

[Seered Doom]

You make a lot of sense with that comment and yeah, I mean, I'm in a conservative midwest state in the US, so there's also that to take into account so I understand the conservatism death grip. We have literal fascists here and it sucks. Thank you for understanding.

 

[passivethought121]

Honestly, I think the LGBTQ community is toxic af and doesn't represent LGBTQ people at all, only a vocal minority of self minded people

I'm agender/demi-male (whatever that means) sort of because I decided gender roles don't matter to me and labels are limiting, so I only call myself a guy because of the mere coincidence of my biological sex being male and being treated accordingly my whole life. Also, I'm demi-panromantic and demi-pansexual because I only feel sexually attracted to someone sometimes, but their gender doesn't matter, although I prefer bodies with mostly feminine features, and I only feel romantically attracted to someone sometimes as well, and, romantically speaking, I may be attracted to anyone

That being said, I don't think the LGBTQ community represents me and I don't consider myself part of it

Agree that the community, especially online, is intolerant. You always have to pick a label or a flag, and if you choose the wrong label (because a more 'accurate' one was unknown until a couple years ago), or refuse to label, you're -phobic. They also love to police people's identity and choices, saying someone isn't what they claim to be if they don't do xyz.

 

[forest_ice]

my uni's trans org had issues with misogyny/transphobia towards trans men. it got so bad that people in the know called it the "mean girls sex cult". i'm sorry that even our safe spaces are that bad. i stopped showing up almost as soon as i started showing up... i wish we could do better, even if only for each other

 

[Sandy9]

Fellow trans man here. I really feel this. I used to work at a gay bar and some of the worst transphobia I received was while I worked there. What irony. While a part of me feels like I got thicker skin by working there, another part of me feels like I gained a lot of trauma having to constantly deal with feeling both inadequate and out of place in an "inclusive" space.

 

[Passenger01]

Its so desperately saddening and maddening, all of this.
I mean, we are taught that ac epting people for who they are, regardless of any self-identifying feature, is what we should do.
Then some jerk comes along to tell us that "they" are "not normal" - i mean, wtf is 'normal' anyway? And who gives a flying fig what someone declares themselves to be?
Imho it comes down - a lot - to power trippy freaks wanting to be dominant and to have their view adopted by the mainstream. We see it in all kinds of places - mainstream media being one.
Cognitive dissonance, anybody? It runs through society like a streak of diarrhoea and is best avoided - as in, make your own minds up - its not ultimately about personality as much as the freedom to be able to live a life rich in all the things life should give us but fails to. Another reason im here i guess. The wrong people dictating for way too long.
Rant over.
With much love to all.