When I’m angry I get mean

[Pryras]

And by mean, I mean...MEAN. I've been doing a lot of writing recently and ill notice how derogatory and disrespectful I get when emotional triggers are pushed and I remember the trauma. It's relieving to express but also amps up the resentment.

I've been told to forgive and wish peace for people who've hurt me and while I've tried it feels very disingenuous. Lying and convincing myself that I wish any one of these people well doesn't make my heart happy.

People who say that they don't carry hatred in their heart, claim that they feel better but I don't know how to affirm or reach that mindset.

 

[Lorntroubles]

If it's something that's pretty damn small, let it go and forget about it. That's what I do. I know myself and my convictions so it will bounce right off me.

However, those fancy schmancy "forgive everyone" preachers do me no justice. Some people deserve my hate and middle fingaz to them all the way!!!

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

This post resonated with me.

I can be so cutting.

I go back to my understanding that anger is a response to having boundaries crossed. I get cutting when my boundaries have been seriously crossed and I have not been heard, acknowledged, and understood. I have to be pushed to the point that I shred someone with honesty.

I'm at the point now that I do desire well-being even for those who have harmed me, because if someone has well-being, they don't need or want to harm others. If they are aware of others, and if they have well-being, then they are likely to not harm them. If they are in a good place, they will act from that place. If they are in a bad place, they are more likely to act from that place.

That doesn't change that I am angry, hurt, and have resentment, but it brings me some balance. It tones down some of emotional charge. Sometimes I didn't even experience something as trauma, but it was still injustice, still abuse, still wrong. So I both hate them as the embodiment of what they did, and wish for their wellness and wholeness. It's that challenge for me of holding two opposing thoughts. I truly want goodness for everyone. I wanted it before they harmed me. And I have hatred and resentment toward them. So both stances are genuine, both equally worthy of being given attention and honored. Repression only makes something grow, and then it heads toward being unmanageable.

I had to arrive at that place of wishing for their well-being on my own. I don't do disengenous. It's like being forced to give an apology that doesn't come from the heart. I don't know that I'll ever get to the place of truly forgiving and feeling no hate, but I like where I am now. I'm more understanding without it feeling forced. I'm more genuinely compassionate -- I have empathy for root causes, for doing mindless things because of being caught in illusions, for how all humans suffer and do fucked-up things because of it. I get frustrated, too, because they don't have the desire or maybe even the ability to wake the fuck up from what they're doing. But I know that if there is a soul, their soul is more wounded by what they did than the harm they did me. Whatever that essence is, it is not healthy if it's caught in illusions. Seneca said, "It is more wretched to harm than to be harmed." Gautama said to enjoy suffering is not freedom from suffering -- that makes me think of people who abuse and get off on it, who experienced or witnessed abuse and because of how they processed it, because they didn't have boundaries against it, they in turn get gratification from it; it's perversion, it's a sickness of spirit. Having been on the receiving end, I know it is sickness because it feels sick. Such actions are not a sign of health, even if the perpetrator feels good and does not experience regret. That to me is saddening and sickening, and I wish for their healing, which would be for the well-being of all.

I've learned that forgiveness means no longer holding something and it no longer holds me. It's not some spiritual thing, it's not being saintly, it's not about something "higher." I sometimes forgive -- let go of blame and being held by the harmful act and all that went with it -- over and over. It's not a one-time thing but a process of getting free from it. It's challenging when there is no hope of the person ever making the effort to reconcile, to set things right. It's even harder if I cared about that person and they were supposed to care about me, or had a responsibility to me. I reject owning another's action, but they don't own it either, so it's like it keeps coming back to me like a lost dog that needs to be cared for; it's their dog, but they don't take responsibility for it, and just when I'm okay with having let that dog go, it shows up on my doorstep again. I reject it all over again, and in that is resentment.

Therefore, as I process this in writing it out, I don't think resentment is necessarily unhealthy. I think it's self-protective, truly protecting the self, like bristles on a porcupine. I'd much rather be in a safe place where my bristles don't have to be up, but I'm glad that I have them, and if they're up, maybe that's as much of a helpful sign and an ally like anger is. It's only a problem when it gains the force of passion and pushes to unwise actions that will come back and bite me, not the other person, such that I could lose something, like my freedom or a privilege or self-respect, because I crossed a line. It's one thing for anger and resentment to be in the car and sound an alarm, another when they climb over from the back seat and try to drive the car. They have poor navigation skills, are short-sighted, and have lead feet. But I think if the bristles are up, it's something to pay attention to and honor. I don't think it's good to try to force them down, or to listen to someone who says to put them down. They're trying to protect themselves or someone else by being a flying monkey, rather than validating that the bristles exist and are raised for good reason. Even if it's a PTSD reaction, perhaps a hyperbolic reaction to what's happening, what's happening still isn't right or the bristles wouldn't be up. They're a problem when they're driving the car with anger or resentment, because one isn't in a place of awareness and self-control.

All of this is helping me process. Maybe you'll get something from it, too. I'm thinking about some situations that in the past I would have experienced as ungrounding, if not outright traumatizing. Different situations come to mind. A few years ago, I was physically assaulted. I remained present the whole time. It sucked, but I stayed aware and relatively grounded. A couple of months ago, I got free of having to deal with someone in a position of power whose actions were those of a sociopath, who blatantly lied on a regular basis, knowing it was blatant, stole from me, and got away with it. I stayed aware the whole time. He didn't steal from my soul -- from my goodness and from my self. Neither of those men did. I am not traumatized. I hate what they did, I have some resentment, but I don't truly hate them because they didn't take my power, I kept it safe from them. I stay the fuck away from them, I have a safe distance from them and will keep it, but I also see that they are human and if they truly knew who I am, and if they truly knew and felt safe to be connected with their own good and vulnerable human selves, and if they were truly aware of themselves as well as the vulnerable and good presence of others like myself, they would not have done what they did. I kept my power! I genuinely hope they are blessed in some way that helps them get out of illusions.

Perhaps when I feel strong hate and resentment it's because that person through their actions not only had power, but had power over my power -- like my mother did when I was young, and that's why it was trauma. The more internal power I get, the less I hate, and the more I see clearly, remain aware and fully present even when things suck, and can have compassion. Our buddy Brené says the most compassionate people are the most boundaried, and I'm getting more and more how that's true.

There's someone in my life right now who hates my boundaries, and he's starting to show that he resents and hates me (people are their boundaries, so if he hates my boundaries, he hates me). Rather than giving up my no and appeasing him (it's not a sexual thing when I say no, I just mean the boundary I've set that he keeps trying to override or get me to lower), I'm holding firm, and I don't hate him, but am calmly considering how to deal with him without being disengenous or trying to manipulate him just to feel comfortable. I'm maintaining my power. I may not win the battle he's started to wage, but I'm maintaining my position and my self. I unfortunately can't just kick him out of my life. Maybe this time, even if I don't have victory in this battle he's started in response to my boundary, I won't feel any hate or bristly grrrr when it's over.

Thank you for posting. It's one of those posts where I really got something out of seeing my own stuff in someone else's and worked through some of it. I hope that it benefitted you as well and wasn't me just doing my thing when the thread is about you. I hope you get some benefit from my sharing as I got benefit from you sharing.

 

[Pryras]

This post resonated with me.

I can be so cutting.

I go back to my understanding that anger is a response to having boundaries crossed. I get cutting when my boundaries have been seriously crossed and I have not been heard, acknowledged, and understood. I have to be pushed to the point that I shred someone with honesty.

I'm at the point now that I do desire well-being even for those who have harmed me, because if someone has well-being, they don't need or want to harm others. If they are aware of others, and if they have well-being, then they are likely to not harm them. If they are in a good place, they will act from that place. If they are in a bad place, they are more likely to act from that place.

That doesn't change that I am angry, hurt, and have resentment, but it brings me some balance. It tones down some of emotional charge. Sometimes I didn't even experience something as trauma, but it was still injustice, still abuse, still wrong. So I both hate them as the embodiment of what they did, and wish for their wellness and wholeness. It's that challenge for me of holding two opposing thoughts. I truly want goodness for everyone. I wanted it before they harmed me. And I have hatred and resentment toward them. So both stances are genuine, both equally worthy of being given attention and honored. Repression only makes something grow, and then it heads toward being unmanageable.

I had to arrive at that place of wishing for their well-being on my own. I don't do disengenous. It's like being forced to give an apology that doesn't come from the heart. I don't know that I'll ever get to the place of truly forgiving and feeling no hate, but I like where I am now. I'm more understanding without it feeling forced. I'm more genuinely compassionate -- I have empathy for root causes, for doing mindless things because of being caught in illusions, for how all humans suffer and do fucked-up things because of it. I get frustrated, too, because they don't have the desire or maybe even the ability to wake the fuck up from what they're doing. But I know that if there is a soul, their soul is more wounded by what they did than the harm they did me. Whatever that essence is, it is not healthy if it's caught in illusions. Seneca said, "It is more wretched to harm than to be harmed." Gautama said to enjoy suffering is not freedom from suffering -- that makes me think of people who abuse and get off on it, who experienced or witnessed abuse and because of how they processed it, because they didn't have boundaries against it, they in turn get gratification from it; it's perversion, it's a sickness of spirit. Having been on the receiving end, I know it is sickness because it feels sick. Such actions are not a sign of health, even if the perpetrator feels good and does not experience regret. That to me is saddening and sickening, and I wish for their healing, which would be for the well-being of all.

I've learned that forgiveness means no longer holding something and it no longer holds me. It's not some spiritual thing, it's not being saintly, it's not about something "higher." I sometimes forgive -- let go of blame and being held by the harmful act and all that went with it -- over and over. It's not a one-time thing but a process of getting free from it. It's challenging when there is no hope of the person ever making the effort to reconcile, to set things right. It's even harder if I cared about that person and they were supposed to care about me, or had a responsibility to me. I reject owning another's action, but they don't own it either, so it's like it keeps coming back to me like a lost dog that needs to be cared for; it's their dog, but they don't take responsibility for it, and just when I'm okay with having let that dog go, it shows up on my doorstep again. I reject it all over again, and in that is resentment.

Therefore, as I process this in writing it out, I don't think resentment is necessarily unhealthy. I think it's self-protective, truly protecting the self, like bristles on a porcupine. I'd much rather be in a safe place where my bristles don't have to be up, but I'm glad that I have them, and if they're up, maybe that's as much of a helpful sign and an ally like anger is. It's only a problem when it gains the force of passion and pushes to unwise actions that will come back and bite me, not the other person, such that I could lose something, like my freedom or a privilege or self-respect, because I crossed a line. It's one thing for anger and resentment to be in the car and sound an alarm, another when they climb over from the back seat and try to drive the car. They have poor navigation skills, are short-sighted, and have lead feet. But I think if the bristles are up, it's something to pay attention to and honor. I don't think it's good to try to force them down, or to listen to someone who says to put them down. They're trying to protect themselves or someone else by being a flying monkey, rather than validating that the bristles exist and are raised for good reason. Even if it's a PTSD reaction, perhaps a hyperbolic reaction to what's happening, what's happening still isn't right or the bristles wouldn't be up. They're a problem when they're driving the car with anger or resentment, because one isn't in a place of awareness and self-control.

All of this is helping me process. Maybe you'll get something from it, too. I'm thinking about some situations that in the past I would have experienced as ungrounding, if not outright traumatizing. Different situations come to mind. A few years ago, I was physically assaulted. I remained present the whole time. It sucked, but I stayed aware and relatively grounded. A couple of months ago, I got free of having to deal with someone in a position of power whose actions were those of a sociopath, who blatantly lied on a regular basis, knowing it was blatant, stole from me, and got away with it. I stayed aware the whole time. He didn't steal from my soul -- from my goodness and from my self. Neither of those men did. I am not traumatized. I hate what they did, I have some resentment, but I don't truly hate them because they didn't take my power, I kept it safe from them. I stay the fuck away from them, I have a safe distance from them and will keep it, but I also see that they are human and if they truly knew who I am, and if they truly knew and felt safe to be connected with their own good and vulnerable human selves, and if they were truly aware of themselves as well as the vulnerable and good presence of others like myself, they would not have done what they did. I kept my power! I genuinely hope they are blessed in some way that helps them get out of illusions.

Perhaps when I feel strong hate and resentment it's because that person through their actions not only had power, but had power over my power -- like my mother did when I was young, and that's why it was trauma. The more internal power I get, the less I hate, and the more I see clearly, remain aware and fully present even when things suck, and can have compassion. Our buddy Brené says the most compassionate people are the most boundaried, and I'm getting more and more how that's true.

There's someone in my life right now who hates my boundaries, and he's starting to show that he resents and hates me (people are their boundaries, so if he hates my boundaries, he hates me). Rather than giving up my no and appeasing him (it's not a sexual thing when I say no, I just mean the boundary I've set that he keeps trying to override or get me to lower), I'm holding firm, and I don't hate him, but am calmly considering how to deal with him without being disengenous or trying to manipulate him just to feel comfortable. I'm maintaining my power. I may not win the battle he's started to wage, but I'm maintaining my position and my self. I unfortunately can't just kick him out of my life. Maybe this time, even if I don't have victory in this battle he's started in response to my boundary, I won't feel any hate or bristly grrrr when it's over.

Thank you for posting. It's one of those posts where I really got something out of seeing my own stuff in someone else's and worked through some of it. I hope that it benefitted you as well and wasn't me just doing my thing when the thread is about you. I hope you get some benefit from my sharing as I got benefit from you sharing.

Thank YOU for your words, your posts just make so much sense to me when I read them. It's a reminder that they didn't take my power away and that resentment can serve a purpose in protecting me when I'm vulnerable. I agree that boundaries are what make you and it made me take a step back and reflect who truly respects me.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

resentment can serve a purpose in protecting me when I'm vulnerable.

This is why I love externalizing things and having conversation. You shared something that was troubling you, which led me to share something, and in return you shared a new perspective for me that I can use as a tool. When I'm feeling resentment, I can check in and see if I'm feeling vulnerable about something and offer it attention and compassion.

(Have you read Boundaries, or seen my most recent post on that thread? Other people are a boundary, and help when one is working to establish and maintain boundaries, especially when dealing with anything fighting against them, such as guilt messages.)

PTSD is tricky. It hides behind things for safety. It draws attention, but obliquely. If I'm feeling resentment toward my mother, then something has come up which maybe feels safe being resentful toward her, and whatever is behind that needs attention so it can finally be released and heal. Somehow, I've been triggered, and it's coming out in my resentment toward her, fighting against her even though it's no longer happening.

You may already know all this about PTSD, but I'll share a story. Others may benefit if they're interested.

There was a program director in my grad program who was a real jerk to students. She got shitty with me on the phone. I had enough. I drove to her office, fired up the whole way, and confronted her. But I was shaky and had charged emotions. She focused on that, tried to get controlling, told me to sit down. I said no, I would remain standing. Because I was not quite in control, what she saw was shakiness and emotions, and that I was defensive. If I had been in a place of power, I would have been able to remain grounded and talk calmly, clearly, and assertively. What she saw and heard she interpreted as aggression, when I was feeling defensive. If I were in a place of power, I would have defended my boundaries and my position, but not been defensive.

In thinking about it afterward, I realized that it was a PTSD reaction, that I wasn't in control. I researched PTSD treatments and found a therapist who did EMDR.

When she guided me through the process, I was to connect with the feeling and then go through memories like files. I assumed the root cause was my mother's abuse, which often was triggered by my speaking up for and defending myself. That made sense.

Nope.

PTSD doesn't make sense like that.

Keep looking. Allow things to come up.

When I found the memory, I started crying.

It was from when my high school boyfriend committed suicide. My mother was forcing me to break up with him. He never passed me on the way to school, so when I got there, I went looking for him. People asked why, I said I was going to break up with him, I was bored. A few hours later, my mom pulled me out of school and told me he'd committed suicide that morning, before the time he would have normally left for school. The next day, the rumor was all around school -- a huge school -- that he'd killed himself because I'd broken up with him. I didn't feel like I could defend myself, so I didnt even try. I thought it was my own fault, I was horrified, and I thought that by maintaining my silence I was managing the situation with grace, when really I was repressing. At most, I would say I didn't break up with him, but I didn't say what had happened leading up to it. The rumor followed me for years, it even spread into the school district (teenage suicide was uncommon then). Someone would say, "You're the girl whose boyfriend committed suicide because she broke up with him." I would sigh and say, "I didn't break up with him." Nothing else. When I'd say that, no one asked what actually happened. I also didn't tell my parents about what was happening at school. I was very alone and overwhelmed. I managed and I survived, but with maladaptive skills.

In the EMDR session, I worked through the charged emotions, I worked through the false beliefs I had, and I got the messages I actually needed then that would have helped me. I got my power back, I got truth. It was painful when it came up, but then it was released. It was worth facing it and working through it with the EMDR protocol, and I never had to go through it again. The memories don't hold a charge, and I'm reconciled with myself.

The program director was a bully and abused her power against students when she was in a position that was supposed to be only about student support. I dont remember her exact title, but she was to help us through the grad school process. She was shit to everyone, and we did not get support. I detected she was slinging shit when she was slinging it, had had enough of it, and I stood up for myself, but I had to go through hell to do it. Now, I don't. In that hell, my efforts were ineffective and I wasn't heard. Now, I am heard. If I'm not heard, it's on the person, not on me, as I'm quite clear.

So that's what I mean about PTSD hiding and revealing itself obliquely.

 

[Pryras]

This is why I love externalizing things and having conversation. You shared something that was troubling you, which led me to share something, and in return you shared a new perspective for me that I can use as a tool. When I'm feeling resentment, I can check in and see if I'm feeling vulnerable about something and offer it attention and compassion.

(Have you read Boundaries, or seen my most recent post on that thread? Other people are a boundary, and help when one is working to establish and maintain boundaries, especially when dealing with anything fighting against them, such as guilt messages.)

PTSD is tricky. It hides behind things for safety. It draws attention, but obliquely. If I'm feeling resentment toward my mother, then something has come up which maybe feels safe being resentful toward her, and whatever is behind that needs attention so it can finally be released and heal. Somehow, I've been triggered, and it's coming out in my resentment toward her, fighting against her even though it's no longer happening.

You may already know all this about PTSD, but I'll share a story. Others may benefit if they're interested.

There was a program director in my grad program who was a real jerk to students. She got shitty with me on the phone. I had enough. I drove to her office, fired up the whole way, and confronted her. But I was shaky and had charged emotions. She focused on that, tried to get controlling, told me to sit down. I said no, I would remain standing. Because I was not quite in control, what she saw was shakiness and emotions, and that I was defensive. If I had been in a place of power, I would have been able to remain grounded and talk calmly, clearly, and assertively. What she saw and heard she interpreted as aggression, when I was feeling defensive. If I were in a place of power, I would have defended my boundaries and my position, but not been defensive.

In thinking about it afterward, I realized that it was a PTSD reaction, that I wasn't in control. I researched PTSD treatments and found a therapist who did EMDR.

When she guided me through the process, I was to connect with the feeling and then go through memories like files. I assumed the root cause was my mother's abuse, which often was triggered by my speaking up for and defending myself. That made sense.

Nope.

PTSD doesn't make sense like that.

Keep looking. Allow things to come up.

When I found the memory, I started crying.

It was from when my high school boyfriend committed suicide. My mother was forcing me to break up with him. He never passed me on the way to school, so when I got there, I went looking for him. People asked why, I said I was going to break up with him, I was bored. A few hours later, my mom pulled me out of school and told me he'd committed suicide that morning, before the time he would have normally left for school. The next day, the rumor was all around school -- a huge school -- that he'd killed himself because I'd broken up with him. I didn't feel like I could defend myself, so I didnt even try. I thought it was my own fault, I was horrified, and I thought that by maintaining my silence I was managing the situation with grace, when really I was repressing. At most, I would say I didn't break up with him, but I didn't say what had happened leading up to it. The rumor followed me for years, it even spread into the school district (teenage suicide was uncommon then). Someone would say, "You're the girl whose boyfriend committed suicide because she broke up with him." I would sigh and say, "I didn't break up with him." Nothing else. When I'd say that, no one asked what actually happened. I also didn't tell my parents about what was happening at school. I was very alone and overwhelmed. I managed and I survived, but with maladaptive skills.

In the EMDR session, I worked through the charged emotions, I worked through the false beliefs I had, and I got the messages I actually needed then that would have helped me. I got my power back, I got truth. It was painful when it came up, but then it was released. It was worth facing it and working through it with the EMDR protocol, and I never had to go through it again. The memories don't hold a charge, and I'm reconciled with myself.

The program director was a bully and abused her power against students when she was in a position that was supposed to be only about student support. I dont remember her exact title, but she was to help us through the grad school process. She was shit to everyone, and we did not get support. I detected she was slinging shit when she was slinging it, had had enough of it, and I stood up for myself, but I had to go through hell to do it. Now, I don't. In that hell, my efforts were ineffective and I wasn't heard. Now, I am heard. If I'm not heard, it's on the person, not on me, as I'm quite clear.

So that's what I mean about PTSD hiding and revealing itself obliquely.

I actually saved that thread and downloaded an audio version of the book so I could listen to it when I'm working. I find myself revisiting old threads of mine and rereading your answers since it gives me a sense of normalcy. That I'm not alone and someone gets "it"

I've been there and emotionally amped up to where I'm choking on my own words and that's all "they" see. The anger and panic in my voice was the main focus and not my words. I'm stronger now but Im still working on being civil when I'm pushed since anything I say may just fall on deaf ears. Also my God I don't know how you managed to avoid telling your side of the story but I've always thought the same...that if I just "stayed quite" that I would be managing it with grace and it would be okay. But that's not the case and you feel even more alone. I resonate with you in many ways.

 

[Deleted member 17949]

It's normal to project negative feelings outwards, and healthy to a certain extent. It's good that you recognize that you do this. If you work with yourself I'm sure you can find ways of venting frustration that are not going to bother other people.

 

[TAW122]

Yeah I get that too. I can get rather sarcastic and witty at times, as a jab at the other person to make a point, but failing that, I do raise my voice and yell at them for being unreasonable or failing to see my side of the argument.

I mostly try to stay calm now because I don't want to raise "red flags" and have people messing with my method of self-deliverance or interfering with my plan to CTB.

 

[Soul]

I'm not sure we're all talking about the same kind of mean. My so-called boyfriend grew up in a family where every show of anger was a declaration of war that each family member would do *any*thing to win, by hurting the "opponents" as badly as possible, slashing at them with things that weren't even true, just hurtful. I was physically abused as a child but this kind of hatefulness was new to me.

He doesn't do it as often now, and I'm way less bewildered by it and vulnerable to it when he does do it, but man it can take your breath away.

 

[draw a circle]

Same.... I can say some pretty mean remarks to people who makes me angry. My friends like it when I'm being mean and sarcastic to our shared enemies, but lately one of them hurt me (unintentionally and unknowingly) and I keep being overly sarcastic to them and then apologize and then saying it again over and over. (Somehow, it doesn't work at all. They recognized that they hurt me and made me angry, but did nothing about that because they said, "I could get angry at you too someday. That's just how it is." That makes me even angrier.)

Some of my friends also said that I'm scary when I'm angry, although I don't know in what ways. I try not to yell or raise my voice at people, though. Maybe I failed at that. I hate that part of me that gets angry easily and intensely. I often snap at my parents too because I let my guard down around them, but it ends up hurting them. Most of all, I'm angry at myself.

And yet, I forgive/forget quite easily. Sometimes it's just not a big deal and I forgot why I was angry. Other times I even forgot that someone did me wrong. I do hold a few grudges, though. It's tiring. I want to stop feeling anything just so I can stop being angry.