Discussion When do we acknowledge a humans worthlessness?

[Allan that was]

Camus did say that the only philosophical question is if you should or should not commit suicide. And when we are being honest this is the primary question which every individual is faced with and the only real decision we are faced with. Everything in life is really just following what our personality matrix and social background have chosen for our life. With these peramiters most people are successful but some are relegated to the bitter pitt of failure. In a society in which the social and professional sucess of the individual is the only metric in which his value is measured it really does not leave much room for interpretation, if we wanted to we could probably (by age 19) give an objective value of said individual based on their physical and mental qualities.
There is no such thing as individual or unique value lets get rid of that childish fantasy once and for all.
When everything is considered I dont even have value in the most abstract and philosophical sense, I am worthless on every level of thw word. Every logical and by philosophical law of our society I should cease to exist, I am a non entity as far as humanity is concerned, the only logial path for me is death as I am by every honest defenition of the word worthless

 

[After The End]

Your take on this is cogent and honest, but then I would say that because you remind me of me.

There is no such thing as individual or unique value lets get rid of that childish fantasy once and for all.

But the reason people will never (save in moments of pique or cruelty) agree that certain individuals are worthless is to maintain that very fantasy. If they admitted that Bob the failure is not a special, lovable snowflake (though in reality those same people would step around him like a pile of garbage if he was dying on the sidewalk) is because to do so they would have to accept the premise that they themselves have no inherent value. That without their job (which they probably lucked into and are fairly mediocre at) and their circle of friends (many of whom they probably don't like all that much and can't really depend on) the house (which the bank owns) the car (under finance) and on and on the list goes they too would be treated like garbage on the sidewalk.

When everything is considered I don't even have value in the most abstract and philosophical sense, I am worthless on every level of the word.

I believe you have value, for whatever that's worth, and I'd like to talk to you.

 

[Imtiredofeverything]

If I were to be measured on social terms according to which physical looks and profession matters, I would have much value. I have a decent career path and I am attractive to many people. I disguise my mental health and am mostly successful at it. But i have no intention whatsoever of continuing life because the worth of my life for others means nothing if life is ultimately pointless and i am struggling to survive in my eyes. So i would like to think the individual and unique value for me is my choice, given how i feel and struggle. Having a life without love is insane and to feel that love from a partner or socially from people around you, you would probably require the parameters you described. But what i have is love without life - every day, having what many would want but being unable to ever feel or enjoy it. The guilt of it is similar to the guilt some of us here may feel of wanting to kill themselves but being unable to do so, looking at people who want to live but die in accidents etc. And if i had to choose i wouldn't be able to select what is worse.

 

[littlecorporal]

Isn't our worth and value only in terms of how much we are worth and valued by other people? Then it is probably what we give to them. Or am I wrong about this? This is where people who have faith in a transcendent God who loves them despite what the are like have a sense of someone knowing all about them and it not mattering. Sorry, not trying to preach but trying to make sense of valuing myself.

 

[everydayiloveyou]

Idk, I think it's subjective and very personal. If you ask a sleazy frat boy this question, he'll probably say any anti-partying ugly person is living an objectively worthless life. If you ask a hedonistic criminal, they might say that the worthless life is one where you have basic compassion for others and do normal things only because it's the right thing to do. And if you ask a pretentious soccer mom with high expectations, she might say that a worthless life is that of a high school dropout who works for minimum wage.

Human value is only a thing under our shitty cutthroat capitalistic society. Technically under that model, everyone's useless. Because most of us are not super rich and "working hard" (a.k.a screwing people over for profit) so we don't usually do productive things like fostering talent or learning. At the same time, if there's no disadvantaged and down-on-their-luck people to screw over and leech off of, then there would be no rich privileged people. You gotta think about who really benefits by categorizing people this way. And who benefits by keeping people in pits of failures for generations. The ones winning are rarely the most physically or mentally capable.

The fact is that nature (the one greatest force in this entire world) does not simply spawn worthless things. Mosquitoes are as important as humans who are as important as ocean sunfish. Yeah we're worthless on an individual level, but everything in nature is only valuable as a population. And everyones bound to die, whether you're destined to do well in life or not. The amazing thing about free will is that we can choose when that happens I guess.