Venting What’s the point of locking people in psych wards?

[midastic]

First of all, its been such a while probably a month I posted here. I had to deal with stress from school and I'm gonna CTB at a later date. So I'm just getting filled in on what happened in this forum for the past few weeks.

But anyways, my point is that why do people think it's a good idea to lock up suicidal people in a psych ward. I can understand the use of psych wards for someone who wants to harm other people. But for a suicidal person, there's really no point. If anything, it can make it worse for the suicidal person because you are essentially staying there in boredom while taking whatever medication you get and then it's just a bunch of nurses that ask you if you're still suicidal until they hear you say no. On top of all that, you get a bill just for being locked up there. There are better ways to deal with this situation if you truly want to help the suicidal person. Look at Belgium, they have laws that allow someone that's depressed or many mental illness they faceto go to a doctor and assist them to die when they exhausted all options to treat their illness. Of course it takes a while but better than being locked in a random place because you had suicidal thoughts.

 

[Mr2005]

Because you're a danger to yourself. Make of that what you will but that's why

 

[CJM]

Because you're a danger to yourself. Make of that what you will but that's why

Danger to others too.

Also again, make of that what you will.

 

[Mr2005]

If someone actually is then fair enough because a prison is exactly what it is. Otherwise no

 

[undertherainbow]

The psych ward made me feel crazier than what I actually was
I still have nightmares from the psych ward. At least in jail you get a sentence...

 

[zzz919]

There are only two reasons we lock people in psychiatric hospitals in the United States.
------ ------ ------
(1) If you are Poor ...... You are locked in a psychiatric hospital as *Punishment* for being suicidal ...... But don't worry ...... If you are in a conservative republican state (such as Texas) ...... You will only be locked up for 2 or 3 days before they throw you out in the street ...... Because they they honestly do Not care if you live or die ...... Truth ...... Poor people are Not considered to be human beings in the United States ...... Truth.
------ ------ ------
(2) If you are Wealthy ...... You will be locked in a psychiatric hospital in order to steal all of the money in your bank account ...... If you are extremely wealthy ...... You could spend a long time in a psychiatric hospital ...... Because it takes more time to steal the life savings of a multi-millionaire ...... You will spend several months (possibly years) sitting in pointless "group therapy" sessions ... making crafts in "occupational therapy" ...... Every time you make a leather coaster ...... Your parents (or insurance company) will be billed $100,000.00 ...... You will be "cured" when your money runs out.

 

[Sayo]

It's a good method of social control, and I'm sure people lower down the chain think it's done because it's effective at something in theory. It probably is at stopping people who only want to die impulsively, though only in the sense it acts as a restraint. And even then, people hang themselves on the wards pretty frequently in some places.

Our societies have a history of imprisoning anyone they think is insane because they perceive them to be threats to others. People were quite upset when rates of institutionalisation decreased. At some point, people started to admit the average suicidal person is not a threat to anyone but themselves (and they had no method of stopping the person from dying otherwise), but I do wonder if people all really believe that deep down. I also think the majority of people have given zero thought to whether it's effective or humane treatment or not, since they perceive themselves and their loved ones as sane and unlikely to be affected.

If you actually received intensive and effective treatment, people would probably volunteer, though. (At least in countries where healthcare is socialised.)

 

[midastic]

It's a good method of social control, and I'm sure people lower down the chain think it's done because it's effective at something in theory. It probably is at stopping people who only want to die impulsively, though only in the sense it acts as a restraint. And even then, people hang themselves on the wards pretty frequently in some places.

Our societies have a history of imprisoning anyone they think is insane because they perceive them to be threats to others. People were quite upset when rates of institutionalisation decreased. At some point, people started to admit the average suicidal person is not a threat to anyone but themselves (and they had no method of stopping the person from dying otherwise), but I do wonder if people all really believe that deep down. I also think the majority of people have given zero thought to whether it's effective or humane treatment or not, since they perceive themselves and their loved ones as sane and unlikely to be affected.

If you actually received intensive and effective treatment, people would probably volunteer, though. (At least in countries where healthcare is socialised.)

I could understand that it's good at stopping people based on dying from impulse. I still don't understand the point of locking up people that struggled with mental illness for years because at that point, psych ward isn't the way to go and there are other options.

Because you're a danger to yourself. Make of that what you will but that's why

Still though, if being suicidal is a danger to yourself then they might as well lock up those that are seeking assisted suicide or euthanasia since they are also danger to themselves. Psych wards are needed the most for people that pose danger to others. It can be hard to differentiate that since murder-suicides happen but so are mental illnesses.

 

[Justanotherconsumer]

They justify the multibillion dollar psyche med industry, everybody knows the only motivation for getting better is just to leave the ward. But if they pretend the drug did it's work, it's more evidence for that industry to make money. In the US. You can't be on disabillity (mental) without being on a multitude of these drugs all of which cause diabetes and parkinsons. The end goal is life long dependency on expensive medication, for anyone that has been on psyche drugs long term after awhile you cannot be without them or you go insane, also these drugs lose effectiveness so you need the newest most expensive designer drug developed.

 

[Sayo]

I agree with you, which is why my post focused primarily on social motivations for doing so. Most people think suicides are impulsive and poor decisions (most rhetoric on suicide is about its preventability and the temporariness of the problem, which shows you what people think about the struggle). Still others think the right thing to do is just bear it as best you can because suicide is selfish, nothing can be worse than death, etc. etc. etc..

My ultimate point is that the point isn't for us, though, other than that I suppose people feel a moral imperative not to let others die, even if they do nothing to help us after.

 

[Mr2005]

Still though, if being suicidal is a danger to yourself then they might as well lock up those that are seeking assisted suicide or euthanasia since they are also danger to themselves. Psych wards are needed the most for people that pose danger to others. It can be hard to differentiate that since murder-suicides happen but so are mental illnesses.

I didn't get that impression from any of them when I was in there

 

[Mr2005]

It's a good job really because I was just there because I was depressed. Some of them were truly mental though

 

[Sayo]

I was going to edit this into my post, but my internet cut out.

Also, many people in psych wards for years and years are just in there because it's felt there's nowhere else that they can be 'cared for' and that they're not ultimately responsible for themselves. Some of them aren't even mentally ill, they just have cognitive difficulties. This is a kind of institutionalisation still left over - the main factors in deinstitutionalisation were mainly the availability of meds and therapists, the increasing realisation that being isolated in an asylum doesn't fix you (not fully stamped out yet), the civil rights movement, and (last but not least) the high cost of these institutions when the government began paying for them. But there are a ton of people in there essentially custodially, and many of the people who would have been there before have been shifted instead to prisons or 'homes' for the disabled.

Or they end up homeless. Tons of homelessness help won't have anything to do with the mentally ill and other long-term homeless.

Basically, you are right, but our perspective is not the primary one being considered, especially since anyone in a psych ward is not considered fully rational anyway (and to keep you in there for a long time you have to be deemed by their admittedly piss-poor process that you aren't). I would say the average taxpayer's perspective probably matters more than yours about your treatment in a psych ward.

For what it's worth, mental health professionals and researchers don't think psych wards are ideal either. The ones that don't outright hate most of their patients are just working with what they have, and community mental health initiatives (which would lessen the perceived needs from their perspectives to shut us up) are constantly sunk. Still, they are fine justifying what they do and their coercion based on the outcome, which is that you don't die, no matter what other problems arise as part of your stay.

 

[CJM]

Still though, if being suicidal is a danger to yourself then they might as well lock up those that are seeking assisted suicide or euthanasia since they are also danger to themselves. Psych wards are needed the most for people that pose danger to others. It can be hard to differentiate that since murder-suicides happen but so are mental illnesses.

Yep.

Let's say you try do the Co2 method and it fails but there are other people in the house. You'll get put in that ward for yourself and potentially harming others.

 

[worldexploder]

Unless you are a danger to others or TRULY unsound of mind (such as going though a schizophrenic episode or flipping out on Bath Salts), I cant see any justifiable reason for locking someone up in psyche. The Medical Industrial Complex makes a lot of money off of people like us. That's why they have such a lose definition of what "soundness of mind" really is. That's why they are opposed to the right to die.

When I attempted in 2015, they put me in psyche after a 24 hour stay in the ER. I was sound of mind the entire time. I spoke very articulately on what I believe in, calmley stood my ground, and told them the reasons why I wanted to die. I haven't changed my mind to this day. The only foul on my part was the ignorance I displayed by overdosing. I should have did more research.

No "white coat" can scam me into believing that life is a positive imposition. I know better. These people are like car salesman. It would be different if we lived in a fair society were the right to die existed and therapists offered us a hand instead of a fist full of their "know it all" dogma.

 

[Taylored]

Unless you are a danger to others or TRULY unsound of mind (such as going though a schizophrenic episode or flipping out on Bath Salts), I cant see any justifiable reason for locking someone up in psyche. The Medical Industrial Complex makes a lot of money off of people like us. That's why they have such a lose definition of what "soundness of mind" really is. That's why they are opposed to the right to die.

When I attempted in 2015, they put me in psyche after a 24 hour stay in the ER. I was sound of mind the entire time. I spoke very articulately on what I believe in, calmley stood my ground, and told them the reasons why I wanted to die. I haven't changed my mind to this day. The only foul on my part was the ignorance I displayed by overdosing. I should have did more research.

No "white coat" can scam me into believing that life is a positive imposition. I know better. These people are like car salesman. It would be different if we lived in a fair society were the right to die existed and therapists offered us a hand instead of a fist full of their dogma.

"These people are like car salesman"
Couldn't of said It any better.

 

[worldexploder]

"These people are like car salesman"
Couldn't of said It any better.

Thanks. I've been dealing with therapists for the majority of my life. I am well aware of my problems and know what the solution is. It's an insult to my intelligence for them to assert that they know what's best for me! If I wanted to be surrounded by anti-choice pro lifers I'd go to church. I'm sure you and most people on this site can relate.

 

[willowtrees0]

if I somehow fail in my attempt and go to psych ward I will be positive im dead when I get out lol. that is my biggest fear when attempting ctb...No way I could live a life after that... my family would disown me. Everyone would know and think im crazy. I think that any type of 'locking up' someone is completely unnecessary and in my case would ruin the little bit life I have left... unless they are high or drunk and/or acting reckless.

 

[TAW122]

Yeah, I agree with you, there isn't any real benefit of locking up the suicidal people (unless they are a direct danger to others, but then a temporary detention in a jail cell, holding cell, or prison would be for that purpose.) in psych wards. In fact, it only makes things worse for them mentally, financially, socially, and just overall life (loss of rights, jobs, careers, friends, social life, etc.). I suppose it is just society's way of punishing someone for thinking or acting differently from what the majority of society does and for society and its' members to pat themselves on the back for doing a good thing while sticking it to the suicidal.

Here are some posts that highlight the uselessness as well as damage done by the psych wards to the suicidal. This one was locked up and his life made much worse, then also this person was pushed over the edge because of a suicide hotline sending the person to the psych ward, Finally, this one, who lambasted the efficacy of 72 hour holds. Of course, there are many more cases, but these are a few just to think about.

 

[Sayo]

Observation: the suicidal think psych wards are useful for some other category of person, just not them.

I'm not saying being suicidal makes you insane, or that all psychotic people are best placed to make decisions for themselves all the time (having familiarity with psychosis), or that. I do think very long term care in a psych ward is inappropriate for nearly everyone, as do a number of researchers. I agree that being suicidal is a unique category insofar as you pose risk only to yourself pretty much inherently, but most other mentally ill people actually only pose risk to themselves anyway.

Just food for thought about those who may not present as rationally as you, and another answer to the question (pro-lifers would view you as equally unable to make decisions for yourself because of the very nature of your suicidality as you would view other mentally ill people, with the exception of some cases like severe disability).

 

[starcrossedfate]

Liability.

 

[samsays89]

Maybe it helps some people and as long as some people change their mind the medical staff don't care about the rest of us. We're just not "cured" yet.

When I was committed (for psychosis not suicide attempt) suicide attempt patients were in the minority. Mostly it was alcoholics and addicts, then mental illness like mania, schizophrenia, and bipolar syndrome.

One of my ward roommates did attempt suicide but his situation wasn't helped or harmed. He had been halfway through a degree when he got into a barfight and received a felony assault charge. As a result he could no longer have a career and wound up homeless. He attempted a heroine overdose and while in the ward at least he got free food and a bed. I don't know what would happen when he's released. Basically if no one picks you up you're taken to the closest bus stop and left there. My other roommate was a young manic patient who will probably be ok on meds, and the first one I had I was too out of it to talk to.

Most of the people in the ward I was at were already rock bottom so it gave them a chance to detox and find housing and work. Some of the addicts seemed hopeful and helped. I didn't talk to many people though.

For me, I had insurance but I'm afraid to open my bills from the mail due to how much it may still cost me, and yes, the experience did help lead me to suicidal thoughts. All that waiting, for sessions, for food, for the psychiatrist, for release, made me realize all life was waiting. Now I just wait for my alarm, for work, for lunch, for home, for sleep. I don't care about anything except my dog and every minute seems like an eternity that I can only escape by getting to the void of nonexistence. I spend so much time just looking for distractions. Nothing that made me happy in my past makes me happy now. I don't know how long I'll last.

 

[RM5998]

I think I've said this before, but I believe that the whole conceptual understanding of the treatment of mental illnesses is skewed, at least when it comes to the perspective of the patient. Most treatment is intended to put people back into society - and that becomes the barometer for measuring if they are 'better'. And while that is an excellent majoritarian perspective to have if what you want is a large labor force that will keep putting the value it generates back into the societal system, it does to some extent shortchange the person receiving 'treatment'.

Most societies NEED to be pro-life in order to get people to put value in and generate further value that again enters the system. Suicide is an escape route that stops society from getting value from the person committing suicide - it would be stupid for a society to support this at large. The idea of supporting euthanasia is that the people who have to be euthanized have nearly nothing left to give, and there's no net value gained in keeping them alive.

While I wholeheartedly support @worldexploder's manifesto, I'm apprehensive about its success for this very reason - society posits its liberties and responsibilities to be self-perpetuating. Offering an exit to people yet to be milked of their value isn't something it's likely to do.

 

[worldexploder]

I think I've said this before, but I believe that the whole conceptual understanding of the treatment of mental illnesses is skewed, at least when it comes to the perspective of the patient. Most treatment is intended to put people back into society - and that becomes the barometer for measuring if they are 'better'. And while that is an excellent majoritarian perspective to have if what you want is a large labor force that will keep putting the value it generates back into the societal system, it does to some extent shortchange the person receiving 'treatment'.

Most societies NEED to be pro-life in order to get people to put value in and generate further value that again enters the system. Suicide is an escape route that stops society from getting value from the person committing suicide - it would be stupid for a society to support this at large. The idea of supporting euthanasia is that the people who have to be euthanized have nearly nothing left to give, and there's no net value gained in keeping them alive.

While I wholeheartedly support @worldexploder's manifesto, I'm apprehensive about its success for this very reason - society posits its liberties and responsibilities to be self-perpetuating. Offering an exit to people yet to be milked of their value isn't something it's likely to do.

You made some really good points.

It's unrealistic to except my manifesto to change people's minds anytime soon (as much as I want it to). First we need to start a national/international dialogue. Maybe in another decade or two America will recognize the right to die as a universal human right. If it can happen in Switzerland, Belgium, and the Netherlands, it can happen here. I think the younger generation will be more accepting of this cause as well.

Constitutionally, Row v. Wade should have automatically covered the right to die. We need to get pro-choice women on our side. Mutual support! While it does seem like America is going backwards, I do remember a time where people thought things like gay marriage wouldn't be legalized for another 50 years. No matter the odds, I'll fight for this right until I CTB.

 

[TAW122]

You made some really good points.

It's unrealistic to except my manifesto to change people's minds anytime soon (as much as I want it to). First we need to start a national/international dialogue. Maybe in another decade or two America will recognize the right to die as a universal human right. If it can happen in Switzerland, Belgium, and the Netherlands, it can happen here. I think the younger generation will be more accepting of this cause as well.

Constitutionally, Row v. Wade should have automatically covered the right to die. We need to get pro-choice women on our side. Mutual support! While it does seem like America is going backwards, I do remember a time where people thought things like gay marriage wouldn't be legalized for another 50 years. No matter the odds, I'll fight for this right until I CTB.

Exactly, we do need more people who hold similar beliefs and values to us as well as being able to see the connection between the right to choose when and how to die. I'm not sure how we could reach out to the pro-choice people though, especially without them turning on us or misinterpreting our beliefs, maybe someone else might have a good idea on the delivery.

Yeah, I agree with you, there isn't any real benefit of locking up the suicidal people (unless they are a direct danger to others, but then a temporary detention in a jail cell, holding cell, or prison would be for that purpose.) in psych wards. In fact, it only makes things worse for them mentally, financially, socially, and just overall life (loss of rights, jobs, careers, friends, social life, etc.). I suppose it is just society's way of punishing someone for thinking or acting differently from what the majority of society does and for society and its' members to pat themselves on the back for doing a good thing while sticking it to the suicidal.

Here are some posts that highlight the uselessness as well as damage done by the psych wards to the suicidal. This one was locked up and his life made much worse, then also this person was pushed over the edge because of a suicide hotline sending the person to the psych ward, Finally, this one, who lambasted the efficacy of 72 hour holds. Of course, there are many more cases, but these are a few just to think about.

(Since I can't edit my post, I'm just going to post my reply to my post here.) There is also another story where there is a wife of a cop who turned her husband (who was a police officer at the time and enjoyed a career in law enforcement) in as he was about to ctb. I cannot find the link, but I will try to give as many details of the story as I can recall. I believe that this story happened in the late 80's or early 90's maybe earlier. Also, this may be a story that was probably on one of the anti-suicide sites or something; I wished I knew more details so that if someone was curious they could google it and find it. I've tried to google it and even filtered results, but could not find it anywhere now :(.

 

[Shewaitsforme]

Ive been on sectioned for 5 weeks so far and tuesday they put me on a section 3 which is up to 6 months. Since being in here i feel worse and infact taken more drugs like cocaine, ketamine and whiz than i have on the outside. Im not on a medication so spend most the day fantasising about how im gonna kill myself in here and when im gonna get more drugs bought in. I see a psychologist once a week for about half hour and have 1 ward round with a consultant for not even 10 mins a week. Thats how they think they are gonna help me, mental health treatment needs a massive overhaul here in the uk

 

[Sharethepain]

From personal experience, Its the worst place Ive ever been to in my life.
Nobody talks to you there, you have nowhere to go but couple rooms, everything is taken away from you so you cant harm yourself, even things like earbuds.
They give you bunch of pills on daily basis and you go talk to someone once in a couple days, other than that you just sit in your room for hours and hours straight without a thing to do. Its the worst kind of place.
The purpose of it is to first evaluate you while keeping the risk of harm to yourself or someone else minimal and if they judge that you require more care they lock you up for even longer periods of time, therefore you gotta fake it and just go along with everything to get out of there asap.

 

[Lara Francis]

There are only two reasons we lock people in psychiatric hospitals in the United States.
------ ------ ------
(1) If you are Poor ...... You are locked in a psychiatric hospital as *Punishment* for being suicidal ...... But don't worry ...... If you are in a conservative republican state (such as Texas) ...... You will only be locked up for 2 or 3 days before they throw you out in the street ...... Because they they honestly do Not care if you live or die ...... Truth ...... Poor people are Not considered to be human beings in the United States ...... Truth.
------ ------ ------
(2) If you are Wealthy ...... You will be locked in a psychiatric hospital in order to steal all of the money in your bank account ...... If you are extremely wealthy ...... You could spend a long time in a psychiatric hospital ...... Because it takes more time to steal the life savings of a multi-millionaire ...... You will spend several months (possibly years) sitting in pointless "group therapy" sessions ... making crafts in "occupational therapy" ...... Every time you make a leather coaster ...... Your parents (or insurance company) will be billed $100,000.00 ...... You will be "cured" when your money runs out.

Wow America sounds like it has a harsh approach to mental health.

 

[MAIO]

First of all, its been such a while probably a month I posted here. I had to deal with stress from school and I'm gonna CTB at a later date. So I'm just getting filled in on what happened in this forum for the past few weeks.

But anyways, my point is that why do people think it's a good idea to lock up suicidal people in a psych ward. I can understand the use of psych wards for someone who wants to harm other people. But for a suicidal person, there's really no point. If anything, it can make it worse for the suicidal person because you are essentially staying there in boredom while taking whatever medication you get and then it's just a bunch of nurses that ask you if you're still suicidal until they hear you say no. On top of all that, you get a bill just for being locked up there. There are better ways to deal with this situation if you truly want to help the suicidal person. Look at Belgium, they have laws that allow someone that's depressed or many mental illness they faceto go to a doctor and assist them to die when they exhausted all options to treat their illness. Of course it takes a while but better than being locked in a random place because you had suicidal thoughts.

Guilt tripping/drugging/manipulating the person into compliance with an arbitrary value they decided life has based off of feelings

 

[midastic]

Wow America sounds like it has a harsh approach to mental health.

Welcome to America, where you get charged a hefty bill just for being suicidal.